7 ms·

LLMs can't innovate form. And form/format innovation is the core of creativity. Neither can RL or frontier. That's creativity, the ability to sense wordless sta

LLMs can't innovate form. And form/format innovation is the core of creativity. Neither can RL or frontier. That's creativity, the ability to sense wordless states beyond existing status quo cause effect exchanges. Tokens have no game here. It's that simple, it's how cutting-edges are broken through. It's always trapped behind the aesthetics input, that's just another fatal blow to it's ability to create. I'm not concerned with "hundreds" of people's opinions. And stories, poems, these are dead/dying forms. You may be on the creativity camp, stay there. It's generic as creativity. From my POV, someone building a hybrid between game and movies, this tech is dead dull artifactual, like a fossilized version of art. Yes of course we have definitions of creativity, see Anna Abraham. "creativity is doing something unique and new, using existing networks for things they weren't designed for" And we have the wordless processes that materialze as affinities and events in the imagination. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41583-019-0202-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41583-019-0202-9 I'm very struck by coders who are neither engineers, scientists, nor creatives in the arts, yet have the false intuition and self-delusion that this code is creative. Nonsense. I'm afraid LLMs have zilch in comprable abilities to both as they exclude words, symbols, tokens etc.

jorl17 10mo ago
As a (rather obsessive, perhaps compulsive) poet, I will indeed remain in my camp :) (I do get what you're saying. Yet, I am not convinced that processes such as tokenization, and the inherent discretization it entails, are incompatible with creativity. We barely understand ourselves, and even then we know that we do discretize several things in our own processes, so it's really hard for me to just believe that tokenization inherently means no creativity).
- DrierCycle 10mo ago
  Keep in mind there are events, they are real. Words are just symbols we use to make the thoughts or the events cohere as memories, but they're artifacts that have no direct connection to the thoughts. Nor do any tokens, symbols, codes, etc. These are bottlenecks. They have no analog, they lack specificity. Creativity is the ecological exchange between body and ecology to make records that engage paradox wordlessly. That's what the article's big reveal is about. The events (which can be externalized creatively) are not really creative as words. That's a big problem for the species in general. That's a glass ceiling no one is recognizing or taking notice of. And that sort of gives you an idea how poetry and code are trapped behind it.
sfgvvxsfccdd 10mo ago
“Story is a dying form” is a take all right. Story having been with us since time immemorial makes me question its correctness.
tim333 10mo ago
Perhaps in their basic form but you could do a variation on them like >AlphaEvolve is an evolutionary coding agent for designing advanced algorithms based on large language models such as Gemini. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaEvolve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaEvolve which came up with a novel improvement in matrix multiplication >I don't think people realize just how insane the Matrix Multiplication breakthrough by AlphaEvolve is https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1knem3r/i_dont_think_people_realize_just_how_insane_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1knem3r/i_dont...
- DrierCycle 10mo ago
  It's not evolutionary, that's functionality. There are no algorithms in nature. Evolution is a tinkering process that finds by selection, and functionality is what we post-hoc add to the success. Anything reduced to symbols is simply functionality within models, to claim it's creative is illusory. Creativity, imagination, etc exist in a realm beyond, and preceding symbols, metaphors, etc. Creativity is 'thinking around symbolic bottlenecks'. The matrix multiplication breakthrough is still under the glass ceiling symbols provide. A new way to do math isn't the same as visual scale invariant paradoxes. It's not creativity, the word is a metaphor, the closer word is optimization.

jorl17 10mo ago

As a (rather obsessive, perhaps compulsive) poet, I will indeed remain in my camp :) (I do get what you're saying. Yet, I am not convinced that processes such as tokenization, and the inherent discretization it entails, are incompatible with creativity. We barely understand ourselves, and even then we know that we do discretize several things in our own processes, so it's really hard for me to just believe that tokenization inherently means no creativity).

DrierCycle 10mo ago
Keep in mind there are events, they are real. Words are just symbols we use to make the thoughts or the events cohere as memories, but they're artifacts that have no direct connection to the thoughts. Nor do any tokens, symbols, codes, etc. These are bottlenecks. They have no analog, they lack specificity. Creativity is the ecological exchange between body and ecology to make records that engage paradox wordlessly. That's what the article's big reveal is about. The events (which can be externalized creatively) are not really creative as words. That's a big problem for the species in general. That's a glass ceiling no one is recognizing or taking notice of. And that sort of gives you an idea how poetry and code are trapped behind it.

sfgvvxsfccdd 10mo ago

“Story is a dying form” is a take all right. Story having been with us since time immemorial makes me question its correctness.

tim333 10mo ago

Perhaps in their basic form but you could do a variation on them like >AlphaEvolve is an evolutionary coding agent for designing advanced algorithms based on large language models such as Gemini. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaEvolve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaEvolve which came up with a novel improvement in matrix multiplication >I don't think people realize just how insane the Matrix Multiplication breakthrough by AlphaEvolve is https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1knem3r/i_dont_think_people_realize_just_how_insane_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1knem3r/i_dont...

DrierCycle 10mo ago
It's not evolutionary, that's functionality. There are no algorithms in nature. Evolution is a tinkering process that finds by selection, and functionality is what we post-hoc add to the success. Anything reduced to symbols is simply functionality within models, to claim it's creative is illusory. Creativity, imagination, etc exist in a realm beyond, and preceding symbols, metaphors, etc. Creativity is 'thinking around symbolic bottlenecks'. The matrix multiplication breakthrough is still under the glass ceiling symbols provide. A new way to do math isn't the same as visual scale invariant paradoxes. It's not creativity, the word is a metaphor, the closer word is optimization.