7 ms·

Some people seem to fail to understand that Steam is yet another package manager, but this time filled with only non-free stuff, in a way that has so much DRM i

by fromhet 14y ago

Some people seem to fail to understand that Steam is yet another package manager, but this time filled with only non-free stuff, in a way that has so much DRM it's unusable in any ways but the intended one. Steam on linux is, I think, a big problem for us. There will be dpkg (or whatever your distro chose). This one will install apps in a way that is consistent with the system, and with POSIX. Then, there will be steam. Steam is used because it is the only way to get apps people want. I do not own a game I paid for on Steam. Not even in the way I own non-free apps like Alfred or Ableton Live. I don't have a right to use them, I am merely allowed to do so. I understand that it is in Valves interest to lock us down like this. But in this case, their interest is against ours, the users.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
To be fair, Steam doesn't install apps the proper way on Windows either. Start menu shortcuts actually open Steam and then launch the game. Uninstallers? Launch Steam.
- undergroundhero 14y ago
  On Windows 7 I can use CCleaner or the control panel to uninstall games installed with Steam.
  - jitl 14y ago
    It varies from package to package. Many Steam games are installed with a normal Windows MSI that just targets your `$STEAM/steamapps/common` folder instead of `/Program Files (x86)`, and these packages can be removed using the Control Panel or CCleaner. There are plenty of Steam packages that use the Steam infrastructure in a much more integral manner, however. These packages (like TF2 or Half-Life 2) are stored in compressed and encrypted cache files, and install only some components into a directory like `$STEAM/steamapps/$USERNAME/`. These packages can only be removed using the Steam application. While package stubs may be placed for the Control Panel to manage, the "uninstall" action will just call the Steam "Delete Local Content" action.
tree_of_item 14y ago
Steam shouldn't be a problem for people who use free software: just don't buy software from Steam, same as always. If Steam convinces more people to install GNU/Linux I'd say that's a net win. People are going to be using nonfree software anyway, so they might as well do it on a free operating system.
- icebraining 14y ago
  Yes. And hopefully it'll add more pressure (and possibly help) to improve graphic card drivers and such.
  - Laremere 14y ago
    It already has. Their work on getting L4D working on Linux has already made it so that it now runs faster on the same hardware than with Windows. Source: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/ http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/
lifeformed 14y ago
That's just a side effect of their business model - it's fairly evident that it's a higher priority for them to provide a great user experience than to lock them down. Just yesterday I was reminded of this, when reformatting my computer and reinstalling everything. I forgot to deactivate keys on some of my work software before doing so, and spent hours emailing to get them back. Meanwhile, the whole license/ownership concept of all my games on Steam was completely abstracted away through their install-anywhere-as-many-times policy and Steam Cloud.
- Ntrails 14y ago
  One day I hope that I will be able to link all my DvDs and music and films into a steam style library, and stop caring about backing them up, and keeping the sodding disks. Regardless of horror stories about banned accounts, the steam model is one I find infinitely more attractive than even itunes.
  - olliesaunders 14y ago
    Someone else could do this right now. That could be a reasonable startup idea. I’m not experienced enough to know but this seems like it could be in the ballpark of sounding like a bad idea but not being (akin to what PG describes in his black swan essay).
  - wmf 14y ago
    UltraViolet is supposed to be that, although it's taking a while to get going.
  - reitzensteinm 14y ago
    My cofounder lost about a thousand dollars worth of games when he bought Left 4 Dead 2 via PayPal. PayPal, as it sometimes does, reversed the transaction due to its fraud detection systems, through no fault or instruction of my cofounder. So Steam locked the entire account, permanently and irreversibly. It wasn't even an option to pay the $50 by another method. I still buy Steam games, but only on sale.
lukifer 14y ago
Devil's advocate: DRM and a convenient buying experience mean a lower barrier to creating a business model and getting a paycheck, meaning more software gets written, which is good for users. Don't get me wrong, I don't like cloud licensing or DRM either, and I won't be using Steam for anything but games. But there is a place for such "software vending machines" as Steam and the Mac App Store, particularly at the low end of the market.
- icebraining 14y ago
  more [DRMed] software gets written, which is good for users. Actually, you'll find that not everyone agrees. (Personally, I don't have a strong opinion either way)
dfox 14y ago
I have for a long time avoided steam because of this perception of it being an DRM loaded bunch of crap. Then I had actually done some analysis on steam and found out, that the whole thing does not do anything that can be called DRM, it is in fact really an package manager and framework for network/social functionality. As mostly fulltime linux user and developer I´d rather see software from steam than software using flex-lm (which is the case for most commercial software for linux now and great pain in the ass).
- shardling 14y ago
  There was a point in the past when you needed an internet connection to play downloaded Steam games -- I think that's where the DRM rep comes from. But for at least a few years, you've been able to launch steam without an internet connection.
  - Deestan 14y ago
    Unless the steam process shuts down unexpectedly, or you suddenly lose internet connection, or your computer reboots too quickly for Steam to keep up. Then Steam will decide it needs to ... validate something ... with the online servers before allowing offline mode. Far from idea.
  - ZoFreX 14y ago
    That is up to the games - they can choose to hook into Steam's API for that DRM, or roll their own DRM (or both, thank you Ubisoft), or they can ship without any protection.

by fromhet 14y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

To be fair, Steam doesn't install apps the proper way on Windows either. Start menu shortcuts actually open Steam and then launch the game. Uninstallers? Launch Steam.

undergroundhero 14y ago
On Windows 7 I can use CCleaner or the control panel to uninstall games installed with Steam.
- jitl 14y ago
  It varies from package to package. Many Steam games are installed with a normal Windows MSI that just targets your `$STEAM/steamapps/common` folder instead of `/Program Files (x86)`, and these packages can be removed using the Control Panel or CCleaner. There are plenty of Steam packages that use the Steam infrastructure in a much more integral manner, however. These packages (like TF2 or Half-Life 2) are stored in compressed and encrypted cache files, and install only some components into a directory like `$STEAM/steamapps/$USERNAME/`. These packages can only be removed using the Steam application. While package stubs may be placed for the Control Panel to manage, the "uninstall" action will just call the Steam "Delete Local Content" action.

tree_of_item 14y ago

Steam shouldn't be a problem for people who use free software: just don't buy software from Steam, same as always. If Steam convinces more people to install GNU/Linux I'd say that's a net win. People are going to be using nonfree software anyway, so they might as well do it on a free operating system.

icebraining 14y ago
Yes. And hopefully it'll add more pressure (and possibly help) to improve graphic card drivers and such.
- Laremere 14y ago
  It already has. Their work on getting L4D working on Linux has already made it so that it now runs faster on the same hardware than with Windows. Source: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/ http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

lifeformed 14y ago

That's just a side effect of their business model - it's fairly evident that it's a higher priority for them to provide a great user experience than to lock them down. Just yesterday I was reminded of this, when reformatting my computer and reinstalling everything. I forgot to deactivate keys on some of my work software before doing so, and spent hours emailing to get them back. Meanwhile, the whole license/ownership concept of all my games on Steam was completely abstracted away through their install-anywhere-as-many-times policy and Steam Cloud.

Ntrails 14y ago
One day I hope that I will be able to link all my DvDs and music and films into a steam style library, and stop caring about backing them up, and keeping the sodding disks. Regardless of horror stories about banned accounts, the steam model is one I find infinitely more attractive than even itunes.
- olliesaunders 14y ago
  Someone else could do this right now. That could be a reasonable startup idea. I’m not experienced enough to know but this seems like it could be in the ballpark of sounding like a bad idea but not being (akin to what PG describes in his black swan essay).
- wmf 14y ago
  UltraViolet is supposed to be that, although it's taking a while to get going.
- reitzensteinm 14y ago
  My cofounder lost about a thousand dollars worth of games when he bought Left 4 Dead 2 via PayPal. PayPal, as it sometimes does, reversed the transaction due to its fraud detection systems, through no fault or instruction of my cofounder. So Steam locked the entire account, permanently and irreversibly. It wasn't even an option to pay the $50 by another method. I still buy Steam games, but only on sale.

lukifer 14y ago

Devil's advocate: DRM and a convenient buying experience mean a lower barrier to creating a business model and getting a paycheck, meaning more software gets written, which is good for users. Don't get me wrong, I don't like cloud licensing or DRM either, and I won't be using Steam for anything but games. But there is a place for such "software vending machines" as Steam and the Mac App Store, particularly at the low end of the market.

icebraining 14y ago
more [DRMed] software gets written, which is good for users. Actually, you'll find that not everyone agrees. (Personally, I don't have a strong opinion either way)

dfox 14y ago

I have for a long time avoided steam because of this perception of it being an DRM loaded bunch of crap. Then I had actually done some analysis on steam and found out, that the whole thing does not do anything that can be called DRM, it is in fact really an package manager and framework for network/social functionality. As mostly fulltime linux user and developer I´d rather see software from steam than software using flex-lm (which is the case for most commercial software for linux now and great pain in the ass).

shardling 14y ago
There was a point in the past when you needed an internet connection to play downloaded Steam games -- I think that's where the DRM rep comes from. But for at least a few years, you've been able to launch steam without an internet connection.
- Deestan 14y ago
  Unless the steam process shuts down unexpectedly, or you suddenly lose internet connection, or your computer reboots too quickly for Steam to keep up. Then Steam will decide it needs to ... validate something ... with the online servers before allowing offline mode. Far from idea.
- ZoFreX 14y ago
  That is up to the games - they can choose to hook into Steam's API for that DRM, or roll their own DRM (or both, thank you Ubisoft), or they can ship without any protection.