4 ms·

I have not used quadlets in a "real" production environment but deploying systemd services is very easy to automate with something like Ansible. But I don't se

by yrxuthst 10mo ago

I have not used quadlets in a "real" production environment but deploying systemd services is very easy to automate with something like Ansible. But I don't see this as a replacement for k8s as a platform for generic applications, more for deploying a specific set of containers to a fleet of servers with less overhead and complexity.

figmert 10mo ago
> Ansible OP asked for something consistent and between K8s and Swarm. Ansible is just a mistake that people refuse to stop using.
- the_alchemist 10mo ago
  Please elaborate
  - figmert 10mo ago
    Ansible is a procedural mess. It's like helm had a baby with a very bad procedural language. It works, but it's such a mess to work with. Half of the time it breaks because you haven't thought about some if statement that covers a single node or some bs. Comparing that to docker swarm and/or k8s manifests (I guess even Helm if you're not the one developing charts), Ansible is a complete mess. You're better off managing things with Puppet or Salt, as that gives you an actual declarative mechanism (i.e. desired state like K8s manifests).
    - retroflexzy 10mo ago
      > Ansible is a complete mess. You're better off managing things with Puppet or Salt, as that gives you an actual declarative mechanism We thought this, too, when choosing Salt over Ansible, but that was a complete disaster. Ansible is definitely designed to operate at a lower abstraction level, but modules that behave like desired state declarations actually work very well. And creating your own modules turned out to be at least an order of magnitude easier than in Salt. We do use Ansible to manage containers via podman-systemd, but slightly hampered by Ubuntu not shipping with podman 5. It's... fine? Our mixed Windows, Linux VM and Linux bare metal deployment scenario is likely fairly niche, but Ansible is really the only tenable solution.
    - mono442 10mo ago
      All of them are trying to create something which seems declarative on top of a mutable system. In my experience, it only works decently well when a special care is taken of when writing playbooks.
- betaby 10mo ago
  > Ansible is just a mistake that people refuse to stop using. So is Helm! Helm is just a mistake that people refuse to stop using.
  - zrail 10mo ago
    Nobody who has used Helm in anger will debate this with you.
  - figmert 10mo ago
    I have never denied helm is a mistake that people refuse to stop using. I quite think of Helm as the same as Ansible. Helm is only nice when you consume packages written by others.

figmert 10mo ago

> Ansible OP asked for something consistent and between K8s and Swarm. Ansible is just a mistake that people refuse to stop using.

the_alchemist 10mo ago
Please elaborate
- figmert 10mo ago
  Ansible is a procedural mess. It's like helm had a baby with a very bad procedural language. It works, but it's such a mess to work with. Half of the time it breaks because you haven't thought about some if statement that covers a single node or some bs. Comparing that to docker swarm and/or k8s manifests (I guess even Helm if you're not the one developing charts), Ansible is a complete mess. You're better off managing things with Puppet or Salt, as that gives you an actual declarative mechanism (i.e. desired state like K8s manifests).
  - retroflexzy 10mo ago
    > Ansible is a complete mess. You're better off managing things with Puppet or Salt, as that gives you an actual declarative mechanism We thought this, too, when choosing Salt over Ansible, but that was a complete disaster. Ansible is definitely designed to operate at a lower abstraction level, but modules that behave like desired state declarations actually work very well. And creating your own modules turned out to be at least an order of magnitude easier than in Salt. We do use Ansible to manage containers via podman-systemd, but slightly hampered by Ubuntu not shipping with podman 5. It's... fine? Our mixed Windows, Linux VM and Linux bare metal deployment scenario is likely fairly niche, but Ansible is really the only tenable solution.
  - mono442 10mo ago
    All of them are trying to create something which seems declarative on top of a mutable system. In my experience, it only works decently well when a special care is taken of when writing playbooks.
betaby 10mo ago
> Ansible is just a mistake that people refuse to stop using. So is Helm! Helm is just a mistake that people refuse to stop using.
- zrail 10mo ago
  Nobody who has used Helm in anger will debate this with you.
- figmert 10mo ago
  I have never denied helm is a mistake that people refuse to stop using. I quite think of Helm as the same as Ansible. Helm is only nice when you consume packages written by others.