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It’s because if a webview app experience is good, you don’t notice it, you only notice if it’s bad. A while ago saw a blog link on HN that explained how Apple

It’s because if a webview app experience is good, you don’t notice it, you only notice if it’s bad. A while ago saw a blog link on HN that explained how Apple uses it everywhere and we never notice it because they are done well. Of course I can’t find that link now, I summon the HN gods…

smokel 11mo ago
Is this what you mean? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45250759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45250759 (In the context of "Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content")
- serial_dev 11mo ago
  Yes, thank you!
  - hn8726 11mo ago
    > It stands to reason that Apple wouldn't have developed this feature [liquid glass css property] if they weren't using it. Where? We have no idea. But they must be using it somewhere. The fact that none of us have noticed exactly where suggests that we're interacting with webviews in our daily use of iOS without ever even realising it. There's some jump from _a property exists_ to _it must be used_, but a massive one from _a property exists_ to _Apple uses it everywhere and we never notice it because they are done well_.
jmb99 11mo ago
> It’s because if a webview app experience is good, you don’t notice it, you only notice if it’s bad. Aside from Apple’s apps (which imo are noticeably worse than the old ones, but that’s beside the point), what are some good WebView apps on iOS right now?
- la_fayette 11mo ago
  Somebody scraped the play store and checked the framework, so a list for Android WebView apps, built with capacitor, is here: https://capgo.app/top_capacitor_app/ https://capgo.app/top_capacitor_app/ Maybe an equivalent is there on iOS for the same app...
  - riderx 10mo ago
    Sadly i couldn’t find a reliable way to do it on Apple Store, it’s pretty hard to download from the store outside of apple device. If anyone know how i can do it too
    - la_fayette 10mo ago
      It might not be possible but others have scraped just the app store and matched based on Android meta data: https://people.ece.ubc.ca/amesbah/resources/papers/mobilesoft17.pdf https://people.ece.ubc.ca/amesbah/resources/papers/mobilesof...
  - fluidcruft 10mo ago
    lichess is really good. Thanks for the info, I'm not surprised to learn it's a webview app, but it is really good. It doesn't look native but who even cares. I think when a UI sucks or is unintuitive or buggy then "it's not native" is a sort of catchall easy complaint. Native is a crutch. Sometimes it's a good crutch (accessibility etc). But that's more about developer efficiency and bare minimums of polish.
- crossroadsguy 10mo ago
  Yes, Apple's apps are really really bad - including the app store. I am not even sure whether that app store can be considered a stand alone app or we should call it part of the OS. A webview app is by design bad. Webviews were made for one thing - web views.
  - riversflow 10mo ago
    The app store is the only application that I am aware of that you can't find through spotlight search. You can search the app store directly from spotlight search, but it will never list the App Store as an app. Very annoying.
hn8726 11mo ago
Maybe this https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2022/inspecting-web-views-in-macos/ https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2022/inspecting-web-views-in-ma... and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30648424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30648424? On mobile the webview app experience is crap and it's immediately obvious that an app is not native. Simply nobody asks customers how they like it. The management assumes that as long as nobody complains and the users don't leave in droves, the experience must be impeccable.
- dietr1ch 10mo ago
  It's often easy to tell, but my concern has shifted from "Why isn't this native? It's ugly/slow" to "Why isn't this a goddamn webpage? It can't justify neither its permissions nor its space".
- gozzoo 10mo ago
  from the comments: > Definitely every one of these is sluggish at best on a very modern machine but they are also full of UI annoyances.
csomar 11mo ago
Can you give examples of good webview apps on iOS?
troupo 10mo ago
> Apple uses it everywhere and we never notice it because they are done well. Done well as in: laggy, non-performant, break OS conventions and you can see elements load with the naked eye? See App Store as an example: https://grumpy.website/post/0RsaxCu3P https://grumpy.website/post/0RsaxCu3P or Apple Arcade: https://grumpy.website/618 https://grumpy.website/618 or...
- Maken 10mo ago
  The Arcade video, taking several seconds to load a few low resolution images, causes me pain.
jonplackett 10mo ago
If Apple are using it for the AppStore - then I defo Italy do notice it. The AppStore runs so badly. I would be interested in any links to Webview apps that run really well, I’ve never seen one that I’m aware of but so many that I am aware of and are bad!
risyachka 10mo ago
Not really. The difference between high quality web app and native app is very noticeable. And between average native and average web view - it is night and day. 99% of web apps in desktop browser are laggy. And on mobile it feels like crap. Sure if you are an expert in top1% you can probably get it working really good. But this is true only for 1 in 100 if not less.
LtWorf 10mo ago
A webview app can be good, but finding one is harder than finding russel's teapot :D
rayiner 10mo ago
Apple’s app experience has also been going in the toilet for the last five-six years so there’s that. It’s like slowly boiling the frog.
adastra22 10mo ago
It is immediately obvious when you are using a web view app, as it uses browser layout and non-native controls. And I have never found one to be as intuitive or nice an experience as native controls.

smokel 11mo ago

Is this what you mean? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45250759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45250759 (In the context of "Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content")

serial_dev 11mo ago
Yes, thank you!
- hn8726 11mo ago
  > It stands to reason that Apple wouldn't have developed this feature [liquid glass css property] if they weren't using it. Where? We have no idea. But they must be using it somewhere. The fact that none of us have noticed exactly where suggests that we're interacting with webviews in our daily use of iOS without ever even realising it. There's some jump from _a property exists_ to _it must be used_, but a massive one from _a property exists_ to _Apple uses it everywhere and we never notice it because they are done well_.

jmb99 11mo ago

> It’s because if a webview app experience is good, you don’t notice it, you only notice if it’s bad. Aside from Apple’s apps (which imo are noticeably worse than the old ones, but that’s beside the point), what are some good WebView apps on iOS right now?

la_fayette 11mo ago
Somebody scraped the play store and checked the framework, so a list for Android WebView apps, built with capacitor, is here: https://capgo.app/top_capacitor_app/ https://capgo.app/top_capacitor_app/ Maybe an equivalent is there on iOS for the same app...
- riderx 10mo ago
  Sadly i couldn’t find a reliable way to do it on Apple Store, it’s pretty hard to download from the store outside of apple device. If anyone know how i can do it too
  - la_fayette 10mo ago
    It might not be possible but others have scraped just the app store and matched based on Android meta data: https://people.ece.ubc.ca/amesbah/resources/papers/mobilesoft17.pdf https://people.ece.ubc.ca/amesbah/resources/papers/mobilesof...
- fluidcruft 10mo ago
  lichess is really good. Thanks for the info, I'm not surprised to learn it's a webview app, but it is really good. It doesn't look native but who even cares. I think when a UI sucks or is unintuitive or buggy then "it's not native" is a sort of catchall easy complaint. Native is a crutch. Sometimes it's a good crutch (accessibility etc). But that's more about developer efficiency and bare minimums of polish.
crossroadsguy 10mo ago
Yes, Apple's apps are really really bad - including the app store. I am not even sure whether that app store can be considered a stand alone app or we should call it part of the OS. A webview app is by design bad. Webviews were made for one thing - web views.
- riversflow 10mo ago
  The app store is the only application that I am aware of that you can't find through spotlight search. You can search the app store directly from spotlight search, but it will never list the App Store as an app. Very annoying.

hn8726 11mo ago

Maybe this https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2022/inspecting-web-views-in-macos/ https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2022/inspecting-web-views-in-ma... and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30648424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30648424? On mobile the webview app experience is crap and it's immediately obvious that an app is not native. Simply nobody asks customers how they like it. The management assumes that as long as nobody complains and the users don't leave in droves, the experience must be impeccable.

dietr1ch 10mo ago
It's often easy to tell, but my concern has shifted from "Why isn't this native? It's ugly/slow" to "Why isn't this a goddamn webpage? It can't justify neither its permissions nor its space".
gozzoo 10mo ago
from the comments: > Definitely every one of these is sluggish at best on a very modern machine but they are also full of UI annoyances.

csomar 11mo ago

Can you give examples of good webview apps on iOS?

troupo 10mo ago

> Apple uses it everywhere and we never notice it because they are done well. Done well as in: laggy, non-performant, break OS conventions and you can see elements load with the naked eye? See App Store as an example: https://grumpy.website/post/0RsaxCu3P https://grumpy.website/post/0RsaxCu3P or Apple Arcade: https://grumpy.website/618 https://grumpy.website/618 or...

Maken 10mo ago
The Arcade video, taking several seconds to load a few low resolution images, causes me pain.

jonplackett 10mo ago

If Apple are using it for the AppStore - then I defo Italy do notice it. The AppStore runs so badly. I would be interested in any links to Webview apps that run really well, I’ve never seen one that I’m aware of but so many that I am aware of and are bad!

risyachka 10mo ago

Not really. The difference between high quality web app and native app is very noticeable. And between average native and average web view - it is night and day. 99% of web apps in desktop browser are laggy. And on mobile it feels like crap. Sure if you are an expert in top1% you can probably get it working really good. But this is true only for 1 in 100 if not less.

LtWorf 10mo ago

A webview app can be good, but finding one is harder than finding russel's teapot :D

rayiner 10mo ago

Apple’s app experience has also been going in the toilet for the last five-six years so there’s that. It’s like slowly boiling the frog.

adastra22 10mo ago

It is immediately obvious when you are using a web view app, as it uses browser layout and non-native controls. And I have never found one to be as intuitive or nice an experience as native controls.