10 ms·

So we're gonna get access to Von Der Layen Pfizer sms right? Were you offered to vote for Von Der Layen by the way?

StopDisinfo910 11mo ago
For all the disdain I have for her, Von Der Layen is the candidate put forward by the PPE, the majoritarian party in the EU parliament. So, yes, people were indeed allowed to vote.
- wqaatwt 11mo ago
  She was primarily nominated by the EU council. The parliament would have picked Weber, but nobody cared since its just there to rubber stamp predetermined decisions. He was the leader of the party which won the plurality in the elections and had its support. EU had a real chance to move towards becoming a real parliamentary democracy if it went that way.
  - StopDisinfo910 11mo ago
    That was the election before the current one. She was the one out forward by the PPE this time and even then she was the second candidate put forward by the PPE after Weber was vetoed by France the previous time. That’s the new Spitzenkandidate system. The council is supposed to pick the candidate put forward by the main political force in the parliament. The EU is a real democracy anyway. All the members of the council are themselves democratically elected. It has a weird three parts political system but everyone in it is elected or appointed by people elected.
Certhas 11mo ago
The EU is a parliamentary democracy. Von Der Leyen was proposed by the democratically elected heads of the member states. She was approved by the democratically elected parliament. The chancellor in Germany is also not directly elected by majority vote but by parliament. Its a reasonable criticism that the EU structures make democratic legitimisation very indirect, but that is at least partly a result of the EU being a club of sovereign democracies. The central tension was extremely evident during the Greek debt crisis, you have a change in government in Greece, but due to EU level constraints they can't enact a change in policy. More independent power ininstitutions less dependent on the member state, means the sovereign democratic national governments can't act on their local democratic mandates.
- immibis 11mo ago
  FWIW EU members are sovereign. If they disobey EU laws they can have benefits withheld but they won't be militarily invaded for ignoring EU law the way a US state would (unless they do something military themselves like invading another country).
- wqaatwt 11mo ago
  > The EU is a parliamentary democracy Except the are a couple degrees of separation between the democracy part and in the running the EU institutions. The EU parliament is also a very superficial imitation of a real parliament in a democratic state. It has very limited say in forming the “government” or decision making. > result of the EU being a club of sovereign democracies So either revert to it just being a trade union or implement fully democratic federal institutions. The in between isn’t really working that well.
  - saubeidl 11mo ago
    > Except the are a couple degrees of separation between the democracy part and in the running the EU institutions. That's what parliamentary democracy means, yes.
    - wqaatwt 11mo ago
      No, of course not... In parliamentary democracies the parliament is elected directly and is generally sovereign (optionally constrained by a constitution or some set of basic laws and powers delegated to regional governments and such). In no way does that describe the EU. It has no equivalent body. Its imitation “parliament” is extremely weak and barely has a say in who forms the closest EU has to a “government”.
      - saubeidl 11mo ago
        But the parliament isn't the government in a parliamentary democracy.
exe34 11mo ago
I'm not in the EU! I can explain when somebody is wrong without having a horse in the race myself.
victorbjorklund 11mo ago
technically people didn’t vote for Trump they voted for electors which voted for him.

For all the disdain I have for her, Von Der Layen is the candidate put forward by the PPE, the majoritarian party in the EU parliament. So, yes, people were indeed allowed to vote.

wqaatwt 11mo ago
She was primarily nominated by the EU council. The parliament would have picked Weber, but nobody cared since its just there to rubber stamp predetermined decisions. He was the leader of the party which won the plurality in the elections and had its support. EU had a real chance to move towards becoming a real parliamentary democracy if it went that way.
- StopDisinfo910 11mo ago
  That was the election before the current one. She was the one out forward by the PPE this time and even then she was the second candidate put forward by the PPE after Weber was vetoed by France the previous time. That’s the new Spitzenkandidate system. The council is supposed to pick the candidate put forward by the main political force in the parliament. The EU is a real democracy anyway. All the members of the council are themselves democratically elected. It has a weird three parts political system but everyone in it is elected or appointed by people elected.

Certhas 11mo ago

The EU is a parliamentary democracy. Von Der Leyen was proposed by the democratically elected heads of the member states. She was approved by the democratically elected parliament. The chancellor in Germany is also not directly elected by majority vote but by parliament. Its a reasonable criticism that the EU structures make democratic legitimisation very indirect, but that is at least partly a result of the EU being a club of sovereign democracies. The central tension was extremely evident during the Greek debt crisis, you have a change in government in Greece, but due to EU level constraints they can't enact a change in policy. More independent power ininstitutions less dependent on the member state, means the sovereign democratic national governments can't act on their local democratic mandates.

immibis 11mo ago
FWIW EU members are sovereign. If they disobey EU laws they can have benefits withheld but they won't be militarily invaded for ignoring EU law the way a US state would (unless they do something military themselves like invading another country).
wqaatwt 11mo ago
> The EU is a parliamentary democracy Except the are a couple degrees of separation between the democracy part and in the running the EU institutions. The EU parliament is also a very superficial imitation of a real parliament in a democratic state. It has very limited say in forming the “government” or decision making. > result of the EU being a club of sovereign democracies So either revert to it just being a trade union or implement fully democratic federal institutions. The in between isn’t really working that well.
- saubeidl 11mo ago
  > Except the are a couple degrees of separation between the democracy part and in the running the EU institutions. That's what parliamentary democracy means, yes.
  - wqaatwt 11mo ago
    No, of course not... In parliamentary democracies the parliament is elected directly and is generally sovereign (optionally constrained by a constitution or some set of basic laws and powers delegated to regional governments and such). In no way does that describe the EU. It has no equivalent body. Its imitation “parliament” is extremely weak and barely has a say in who forms the closest EU has to a “government”.
    - saubeidl 11mo ago
      But the parliament isn't the government in a parliamentary democracy.

exe34 11mo ago

I'm not in the EU! I can explain when somebody is wrong without having a horse in the race myself.

victorbjorklund 11mo ago

technically people didn’t vote for Trump they voted for electors which voted for him.