12 ms·

So biological garbage collection pauses then? skip sleep, and the brain tries to run gc cycles during runtime. Causing attention and performance latency spikes.

by earless1 11mo ago

So biological garbage collection pauses then? skip sleep, and the brain tries to run gc cycles during runtime. Causing attention and performance latency spikes. Evolution wrote the original JVM.

layer8 11mo ago
Luckily it doesn’t clear all unreferenced memory, though.
- DenisM 11mo ago
  Cleanup is an LRU process. Once a memory lapses you have to relearn from life experience (or not at all).
  - thaumasiotes 11mo ago
    No, a lapsed memory can be provoked. It doesn't have to be relearned. It is "lapsed" because the organizational path to it within your brain has been lost, like a book in a library that has been left out of the card catalog, but just like the book, if you happen to find it anyway, it will be there. Compare, from https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/anthropology-friday-the-life-and-adventures-of-william-buckley-pt-33/ https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/anthropology-... : > at the first news of English ships in the area, Buckley rushed to the spot. He attempted to make contact, but couldn’t swim out to the ship and couldn’t convince the ship to send a boat to him (Buckley had, at this point, forgotten how to speak English.) Buckley was again heartbroken until another ship showed up, and he found the English colonists and tried to approach them: > “Presently some of the natives saw me, and turning round, pointed me out to one of the white people; and seeing they had done so, I walked away from the well, up to their place, and seated myself there, having my spears and other war and hunting implements between my legs. The white men could not make me out–my half-cast colour, and extraordinary height and figure [Buckley was around 6’5” or taller,]–dressed, or rather undressed, as I was–completely confounding them as to my real character. At length one of them came up and asked me some questions, which I could not understand; but when he offered me bread–calling it by its name–a cloud appeared to pass from over my brain, and I soon repeated that, and other English words after him. … > “Word by word I began to comprehend what they said, and soon understood, as if by instinct, that they intended to remain in the country; that they had seen several of the native chiefs, with whom–as they said–they had exchanged all sorts of things for land; but that I knew could not have been I submit that it takes more than a day to learn English if you don't already know it. Once I was in a Toys-R-Us and noticed a cover image among the bottom-of-the-barrel DVD display which caused me to put what I was doing on hold for several minutes while I stared at the DVD. I bought it, and it turned out to be a movie I had watched many times when I was very young, but that information hadn't been accessible to me.
- jyounker 11mo ago
  Are you sure about that?
- bigbuppo 11mo ago
  I forgot what I was going to type, but I didn't get enough sleep last night.
- blauditore 11mo ago
  Fun fact: Suppressed/hidden/lost memories due to trauma that appear to re-surface through therapy are not a real thing, as previously thought (and still by some psychotherapists). Nowadays it's understood by psychology that any memories "re-surfacing" in therapy are in fact newly created, although the patient themselves cannot tell the difference. Allegedly, whole accusations of childhood abuse may have been created out of thin air, without the victim realizing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy (see research section)
  - slater 11mo ago
    Gonna need some citations on that “fun fact”
    - blauditore 11mo ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy (especially the research section)
      - shadyKeystrokes 11mo ago
        [dead]
      - svnt 11mo ago
        That is extremely weak to nonexistent counter-evidence that seems to focus on supporting Loftus, who has put a lot of effort into the defense of her public persona. I don’t disagree that it is possible to manufacture memories but the evidence isn’t there to support your conclusion or the converse.
        Aurornis 11mo ago
        Recovered-memory therapy (the topic of the Wikipedia article) is very clearly quack science and has been discredited. Some of the techniques used in the therapy include giving patients sedative-hypnotic drugs to put the patient in a waking dream-like state while the therapist asks leading questions to get them to "remember" an event. The same drugs they used are known to be associated with false memories, like when someone falsely recalls something from a vivid dream as having actually happened.
- ghurtado 11mo ago
  I realize you're making a joke, but there is no such thing as "unreferenced memories", as in, something that is no longer in use and has been removed from the brain. Every memory your brain has ever produced is still there, even if most are beyond conscious access. Memories quite literally become a permanent part of you. A lot of people mistakenly think of human memory as a sort of hard drive with limited capacity, with files being deleted to make room for new ones. It's very much not like that.
  - pdonis 11mo ago
    If you are implying that human memory has infinite capacity, that's not possible. The human brain is a finite, physical thing. It can't store an infinite amount of data. If you just mean that human memory has a finite capacity that's much larger than anyone has come close to reaching by storing the memories of a normal human lifetime, that might make sense. Do you have any references for your statements about memory? I'm not familiar with whatever science there is in this area.
    - ghurtado 11mo ago
      I didn't mean either of the things that you are wondering whether I meant, so i can't give you evidence of those things you made up yourself. If you have questions about my comment, I'm happy to try to explain myself better "I didn't understand you at all, so you must have meant either A or B" is not the way to reach an understanding
      - vanviegen 11mo ago
        Your words: "Every memory your brain has ever produced is still there [..]" How would that not imply infinite storage?
        deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
        dragonwriter 11mo ago
Zenul_Abidin 11mo ago
Is Sun Microsystems in the room with us?
dathinab 11mo ago
this might explain how "power napping" (<30min) can help so much when you are sleep deprived even through it's too short to really count as sleep. I wonder if you can find that when sleep deprived people power nap a "flush" happens then
- hinkley 11mo ago
  There’s a phenomenon we have known about since at least the late 1980s when Race Across America riders were using it. Essentially these guys try to stay up for the first few days and then sleep less than 8 hours after that. Way less. Many of them end up hallucinating by the end, and only their extreme fitness levels probably save them from just dying from lack of sleep. The trick is that waking up to daylight makes you feel more rested. So the teams would have their riders sleep 2-3 hours from just before dawn until dawn so they would wake up to sunlight. Physiologically the difference is small, but psychologically it’s much bigger. Some of the effect of power napping is likely the same sort of trickery, just as caffeine is partly trickery and partly adrenal.
  - ra 11mo ago
    I used to do adventure races of 24 or 48 hour duration. can confirm that after 20+ hours of endurance you 100% start having microsleeps and hallucinations. 20 mins sleep is all you need to get going again for a few more hours.
    - hinkley 11mo ago
      Seen any pink elephants?
      - Ccecil 11mo ago
        At that point...shadow elephants.
        hinkley 11mo ago
        My dad got afib from doing a 24 hour challenge and I’m so glad I never participated. Be careful out there. The only marathon I ever did was cram for a couple finals and playing computer games between them and after. I was working on 72 hours when the blue on my monitor started to ripple and decided it was time to go to bed… almost an hour after it started.
hinkley 11mo ago
Skip enough sleep and parts of your brain will try to nap while you’re doing things like meetings.
- timeinput 11mo ago
  Depending on the meeting it might be worth a nap even if I'm well rested.
  - hinkley 11mo ago
    But in that cause you are well aware that you have invested no brain at all instead of investing half a brain while thinking you’re engaged.
  - jama211 11mo ago
    That’s every meeting I’m in that contains more people than myself and two others.
apatheticonion 11mo ago
This is a hilarious comment, I actually laughed out loud

So biological garbage collection pauses then? skip sleep, and the brain tries to run gc cycles during runtime. Causing attention and performance latency spikes. Evolution wrote the original JVM.

layer8 11mo ago

Luckily it doesn’t clear all unreferenced memory, though.

DenisM 11mo ago
Cleanup is an LRU process. Once a memory lapses you have to relearn from life experience (or not at all).
- thaumasiotes 11mo ago
  No, a lapsed memory can be provoked. It doesn't have to be relearned. It is "lapsed" because the organizational path to it within your brain has been lost, like a book in a library that has been left out of the card catalog, but just like the book, if you happen to find it anyway, it will be there. Compare, from https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/anthropology-friday-the-life-and-adventures-of-william-buckley-pt-33/ https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/anthropology-... : > at the first news of English ships in the area, Buckley rushed to the spot. He attempted to make contact, but couldn’t swim out to the ship and couldn’t convince the ship to send a boat to him (Buckley had, at this point, forgotten how to speak English.) Buckley was again heartbroken until another ship showed up, and he found the English colonists and tried to approach them: > “Presently some of the natives saw me, and turning round, pointed me out to one of the white people; and seeing they had done so, I walked away from the well, up to their place, and seated myself there, having my spears and other war and hunting implements between my legs. The white men could not make me out–my half-cast colour, and extraordinary height and figure [Buckley was around 6’5” or taller,]–dressed, or rather undressed, as I was–completely confounding them as to my real character. At length one of them came up and asked me some questions, which I could not understand; but when he offered me bread–calling it by its name–a cloud appeared to pass from over my brain, and I soon repeated that, and other English words after him. … > “Word by word I began to comprehend what they said, and soon understood, as if by instinct, that they intended to remain in the country; that they had seen several of the native chiefs, with whom–as they said–they had exchanged all sorts of things for land; but that I knew could not have been I submit that it takes more than a day to learn English if you don't already know it. Once I was in a Toys-R-Us and noticed a cover image among the bottom-of-the-barrel DVD display which caused me to put what I was doing on hold for several minutes while I stared at the DVD. I bought it, and it turned out to be a movie I had watched many times when I was very young, but that information hadn't been accessible to me.
jyounker 11mo ago
Are you sure about that?
bigbuppo 11mo ago
I forgot what I was going to type, but I didn't get enough sleep last night.
blauditore 11mo ago
Fun fact: Suppressed/hidden/lost memories due to trauma that appear to re-surface through therapy are not a real thing, as previously thought (and still by some psychotherapists). Nowadays it's understood by psychology that any memories "re-surfacing" in therapy are in fact newly created, although the patient themselves cannot tell the difference. Allegedly, whole accusations of childhood abuse may have been created out of thin air, without the victim realizing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy (see research section)
- slater 11mo ago
  Gonna need some citations on that “fun fact”
  - blauditore 11mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy (especially the research section)
    - shadyKeystrokes 11mo ago
      [dead]
    - svnt 11mo ago
      That is extremely weak to nonexistent counter-evidence that seems to focus on supporting Loftus, who has put a lot of effort into the defense of her public persona. I don’t disagree that it is possible to manufacture memories but the evidence isn’t there to support your conclusion or the converse.
      - Aurornis 11mo ago
        Recovered-memory therapy (the topic of the Wikipedia article) is very clearly quack science and has been discredited. Some of the techniques used in the therapy include giving patients sedative-hypnotic drugs to put the patient in a waking dream-like state while the therapist asks leading questions to get them to "remember" an event. The same drugs they used are known to be associated with false memories, like when someone falsely recalls something from a vivid dream as having actually happened.
ghurtado 11mo ago
I realize you're making a joke, but there is no such thing as "unreferenced memories", as in, something that is no longer in use and has been removed from the brain. Every memory your brain has ever produced is still there, even if most are beyond conscious access. Memories quite literally become a permanent part of you. A lot of people mistakenly think of human memory as a sort of hard drive with limited capacity, with files being deleted to make room for new ones. It's very much not like that.
- pdonis 11mo ago
  If you are implying that human memory has infinite capacity, that's not possible. The human brain is a finite, physical thing. It can't store an infinite amount of data. If you just mean that human memory has a finite capacity that's much larger than anyone has come close to reaching by storing the memories of a normal human lifetime, that might make sense. Do you have any references for your statements about memory? I'm not familiar with whatever science there is in this area.
  - ghurtado 11mo ago
    I didn't mean either of the things that you are wondering whether I meant, so i can't give you evidence of those things you made up yourself. If you have questions about my comment, I'm happy to try to explain myself better "I didn't understand you at all, so you must have meant either A or B" is not the way to reach an understanding
    - vanviegen 11mo ago
      Your words: "Every memory your brain has ever produced is still there [..]" How would that not imply infinite storage?
      - deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
      - dragonwriter 11mo ago

Zenul_Abidin 11mo ago

Is Sun Microsystems in the room with us?

dathinab 11mo ago

this might explain how "power napping" (<30min) can help so much when you are sleep deprived even through it's too short to really count as sleep. I wonder if you can find that when sleep deprived people power nap a "flush" happens then

hinkley 11mo ago
There’s a phenomenon we have known about since at least the late 1980s when Race Across America riders were using it. Essentially these guys try to stay up for the first few days and then sleep less than 8 hours after that. Way less. Many of them end up hallucinating by the end, and only their extreme fitness levels probably save them from just dying from lack of sleep. The trick is that waking up to daylight makes you feel more rested. So the teams would have their riders sleep 2-3 hours from just before dawn until dawn so they would wake up to sunlight. Physiologically the difference is small, but psychologically it’s much bigger. Some of the effect of power napping is likely the same sort of trickery, just as caffeine is partly trickery and partly adrenal.
- ra 11mo ago
  I used to do adventure races of 24 or 48 hour duration. can confirm that after 20+ hours of endurance you 100% start having microsleeps and hallucinations. 20 mins sleep is all you need to get going again for a few more hours.
  - hinkley 11mo ago
    Seen any pink elephants?
    - Ccecil 11mo ago
      At that point...shadow elephants.
      - hinkley 11mo ago
        My dad got afib from doing a 24 hour challenge and I’m so glad I never participated. Be careful out there. The only marathon I ever did was cram for a couple finals and playing computer games between them and after. I was working on 72 hours when the blue on my monitor started to ripple and decided it was time to go to bed… almost an hour after it started.

hinkley 11mo ago

Skip enough sleep and parts of your brain will try to nap while you’re doing things like meetings.

timeinput 11mo ago
Depending on the meeting it might be worth a nap even if I'm well rested.
- hinkley 11mo ago
  But in that cause you are well aware that you have invested no brain at all instead of investing half a brain while thinking you’re engaged.
- jama211 11mo ago
  That’s every meeting I’m in that contains more people than myself and two others.

apatheticonion 11mo ago

This is a hilarious comment, I actually laughed out loud