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It's funny to see how Windows and Linux completely switched sides. Linux once being the clumsy one, hard to install, even harder to configure, mediocre UX, runn

by a5c11 11mo ago

It's funny to see how Windows and Linux completely switched sides. Linux once being the clumsy one, hard to install, even harder to configure, mediocre UX, running on poor device drivers and requiring hours spent on the internet to solve a problem. Today, replace the "Linux" word with "Windows" in the previous sentence.

JohnLocke4 11mo ago
Convention and the terminal holds it back. A terminal looks like the 1970s but feels like the future
- luma 11mo ago
  I'd rather suspect it has a lot more to do with 40+ years of application backward compatibility and the ludicrous stack of software available for the platform.
- xtiansimon 11mo ago
  > “terminal holds it back” Presumably the it here is Linux? That’s not what I would have said. The terminal makes maintaining your own systems much easier because it’s all text. Opposed to having to mix screen shots and instructions. Which is to say, I don’t imagine people who can’t handle the terminal (and are on Windoz) are doing any maintenance or configuration beyond a few GRRR items they’ve convinced themselves is ultimately intolerable. From a small business I’d say what keeps the accounting office on Windoz is software (ie. quickbooks, excel). But a close second would be tighter integration of file management and core office apps (ie email). It’s very easy to rename, move, copy, files on windows. You can perform many of these file management tasks inside an app experience (ie saveas dialog box). Apple has the mindset with their suite of Apple productivity apps, Chromebooks are very easy for general users to get their head around. If Linux could roll up a Chromebook environment with a QB clone into an expert system (e.g. no. We don’t need pictures, videos or games folders), I think our firm would consider the switch. It would certainly have the appearance of stability productivity, and simplicity which is always a plus when your job is not maintaining IT systems. (Now we just need to find new outsource IT for troubleshooting)
naikrovek 11mo ago
they have definitely not completely switched sides. Linux is still clumsy and hard to configure if everything isn't configured for you. Linux has worse UX than Windows has ever had (I'm including windows 8 in that comparison) Really liking Linux doesn't make Windows worse, and it doesn't make Linux better. Watch someone who is not familiar with Linux and how it works attempt to install it and use it. Do not intervene. Now do that with a dozen different people on a dozen different machines which you do not preselect. On Windows it is a much smoother experience. I am making zero statements about any application compatibility or application comparisons between platforms. I am talking only about UX, UI, and installation. Linux still has so, so very far to go. And, honestly, there is no operating system which a complete newbie can start using without help in some form. Linux is not some golden child, here. You like Linux on the desktop, and that's fine. Keep enjoying it. Just be aware that your experiences color your viewpoints, sometimes completely. I am not a fan of Microsoft, I use Windows about once a month these days, but the UX difference between Linux and Windows is still very large. Very large.
- ruszki 11mo ago
  Yeah, I don’t understand the parent commenter either. Even with my latest laptop, it took days and weeks to make everything work (like audio, my monitors, DPI, VLC/mpv, even networking). And even then I had to turn off some hardware functionality, because it’s so buggy (bye-bye battery life). And this is before introducing Wayland for example… Also installing is way easier for beginners with Windows. I’m happy that Linux installation now at least reached the level of Windows 98, but I still need to search for things every single time, even when I do it about every other years for several decades now. Just because somebody thought that it’s so important to ask simple users about an implementation detail which almost nobody care about. And this is before bugs… which I encounter quite frequently. It’s getting better, but by not much. It could be a very stable OS with the right hardware even 20 years ago. That didn’t change, you still need to be very careful if you want a good experience with Linux and a GUI. I had no laptop or PC in the past 30 years on which I could install Linux without serious hiccups if I wanted anything more than terminal. I could almost always make it usable (it was impossible with one laptop), but I always had to give up something, like battery life, game performance, my headset at the time, etc. And of course a ton of time.
SirFatty 11mo ago
If that really was the case, then this would finally be the year of the Linux Desktop(tm).
- baobun 11mo ago
  2025 is it!
- m_rpn 11mo ago
  Every year is the YOLD!
  - devnullbrain 11mo ago
    I've not seen the claim you're satirising in years. But I am still seeing the satire years after Windows became the third most common user operating system. The first is Linux. The only reason Microsoft can afford to treat Windows with such disdain is that desktop operating systems became an afterthought.
    - m_rpn 11mo ago
      The first is Android.
- trenchpilgrim 11mo ago
  It honestly is, Linux is great on desktop. However, most people have laptops now which are a mixed bag.
AlienRobot 11mo ago
To me it's sad that Linux never became a good desktop OS, Windows just became worse and worse until it became worse than Linux :( When I upgraded to 7 I tried Linux and I simply hated that I had to deal with the terminal and install strange third-party programs from strange forums to get anything working. Then I had to upgrade to 11 and I had to run strange terminal programs to install it without without creating a Microsoft account, and everyone recommends using some third-party Windows power tools to fix what Microsoft did to Windows. I could not believe it. IT IS THE SAME THING! Now I'm using Linux, and I don't like it, but least it isn't spyware.
- hamandcheese 11mo ago
  > When I upgraded to 7 I tried Linux Most Linux distros have come a long way in the last decade and a half. Windows is worse, yes, but Linux is also better.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
duxup 11mo ago
If find that if it doesn't work out of the box, you're still in for a very clumsy time in Linux land.
scuff3d 11mo ago
It's funny how we see these threads every few months, and it's always the same thing (referring to the discussion below this comment as well). Linux people (myself included) are utterly blind to the rough edges on Linux. Even something like Mint, which is probably the best starting place for someone coming from Windows, can have weird issues depending on your hardware. On the other hand, Windows users are hilariously misinformed about the state of the Linux Desktop. To hear them talk you'd think we're still back in 1997. All of that said, for anyone curious, it is 100% worth trying out. Linux has come a LONG way. Mint is great for general usage, Bazzite is a good choice for gaming. Unless you're playing competitive shooters it's basically a guarantee the games you want to play run on Linux. There will be some rough edges and stuff to get use to, but IMO it's worth a try at least.
- my_brain_saying 11mo ago
  To be fair to Linux, Windows has many, many rough edges as well. The difficult part for newbies is that those rough edges are _different_. In the long run I feel pretty confident saying that Linux is overall better, and that's because of the customizability. Ultimately, with some experience, one can essentially choose one’s own rough edges :P
  - scuff3d 11mo ago
    The problem is where the rough edges are at. On Windows they are mostly off the beaten path. I have a Windows PC setup as my media computer because my wife doesn't want to deal with Linux, and I've never once had an issue with the audio or Bluetooth. On my Fedora desktop and Arch laptop I have audio/Bluetooth issues at least every couple of weeks. In addition, my wife needs access to Adobe products, my brother needs access to Office. Those are non-negotiable for them because in both cases it's for work. I'm a Linux fan, I don't even want to go back to Windows for my personal computer, but Windows is still a smoother experience for the majority of people.
TheCoelacanth 11mo ago
Installing windows has been harder than Linux for at least 15 years. Windows just came pre-installed for most people.

by a5c11 11mo ago

JohnLocke4 11mo ago

Convention and the terminal holds it back. A terminal looks like the 1970s but feels like the future

luma 11mo ago
I'd rather suspect it has a lot more to do with 40+ years of application backward compatibility and the ludicrous stack of software available for the platform.
xtiansimon 11mo ago
> “terminal holds it back” Presumably the it here is Linux? That’s not what I would have said. The terminal makes maintaining your own systems much easier because it’s all text. Opposed to having to mix screen shots and instructions. Which is to say, I don’t imagine people who can’t handle the terminal (and are on Windoz) are doing any maintenance or configuration beyond a few GRRR items they’ve convinced themselves is ultimately intolerable. From a small business I’d say what keeps the accounting office on Windoz is software (ie. quickbooks, excel). But a close second would be tighter integration of file management and core office apps (ie email). It’s very easy to rename, move, copy, files on windows. You can perform many of these file management tasks inside an app experience (ie saveas dialog box). Apple has the mindset with their suite of Apple productivity apps, Chromebooks are very easy for general users to get their head around. If Linux could roll up a Chromebook environment with a QB clone into an expert system (e.g. no. We don’t need pictures, videos or games folders), I think our firm would consider the switch. It would certainly have the appearance of stability productivity, and simplicity which is always a plus when your job is not maintaining IT systems. (Now we just need to find new outsource IT for troubleshooting)

naikrovek 11mo ago

they have definitely not completely switched sides. Linux is still clumsy and hard to configure if everything isn't configured for you. Linux has worse UX than Windows has ever had (I'm including windows 8 in that comparison) Really liking Linux doesn't make Windows worse, and it doesn't make Linux better. Watch someone who is not familiar with Linux and how it works attempt to install it and use it. Do not intervene. Now do that with a dozen different people on a dozen different machines which you do not preselect. On Windows it is a much smoother experience. I am making zero statements about any application compatibility or application comparisons between platforms. I am talking only about UX, UI, and installation. Linux still has so, so very far to go. And, honestly, there is no operating system which a complete newbie can start using without help in some form. Linux is not some golden child, here. You like Linux on the desktop, and that's fine. Keep enjoying it. Just be aware that your experiences color your viewpoints, sometimes completely. I am not a fan of Microsoft, I use Windows about once a month these days, but the UX difference between Linux and Windows is still very large. Very large.

ruszki 11mo ago
Yeah, I don’t understand the parent commenter either. Even with my latest laptop, it took days and weeks to make everything work (like audio, my monitors, DPI, VLC/mpv, even networking). And even then I had to turn off some hardware functionality, because it’s so buggy (bye-bye battery life). And this is before introducing Wayland for example… Also installing is way easier for beginners with Windows. I’m happy that Linux installation now at least reached the level of Windows 98, but I still need to search for things every single time, even when I do it about every other years for several decades now. Just because somebody thought that it’s so important to ask simple users about an implementation detail which almost nobody care about. And this is before bugs… which I encounter quite frequently. It’s getting better, but by not much. It could be a very stable OS with the right hardware even 20 years ago. That didn’t change, you still need to be very careful if you want a good experience with Linux and a GUI. I had no laptop or PC in the past 30 years on which I could install Linux without serious hiccups if I wanted anything more than terminal. I could almost always make it usable (it was impossible with one laptop), but I always had to give up something, like battery life, game performance, my headset at the time, etc. And of course a ton of time.

SirFatty 11mo ago

If that really was the case, then this would finally be the year of the Linux Desktop(tm).

baobun 11mo ago
2025 is it!
m_rpn 11mo ago
Every year is the YOLD!
- devnullbrain 11mo ago
  I've not seen the claim you're satirising in years. But I am still seeing the satire years after Windows became the third most common user operating system. The first is Linux. The only reason Microsoft can afford to treat Windows with such disdain is that desktop operating systems became an afterthought.
  - m_rpn 11mo ago
    The first is Android.
trenchpilgrim 11mo ago
It honestly is, Linux is great on desktop. However, most people have laptops now which are a mixed bag.

AlienRobot 11mo ago

To me it's sad that Linux never became a good desktop OS, Windows just became worse and worse until it became worse than Linux :( When I upgraded to 7 I tried Linux and I simply hated that I had to deal with the terminal and install strange third-party programs from strange forums to get anything working. Then I had to upgrade to 11 and I had to run strange terminal programs to install it without without creating a Microsoft account, and everyone recommends using some third-party Windows power tools to fix what Microsoft did to Windows. I could not believe it. IT IS THE SAME THING! Now I'm using Linux, and I don't like it, but least it isn't spyware.

hamandcheese 11mo ago
> When I upgraded to 7 I tried Linux Most Linux distros have come a long way in the last decade and a half. Windows is worse, yes, but Linux is also better.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]

duxup 11mo ago

If find that if it doesn't work out of the box, you're still in for a very clumsy time in Linux land.

scuff3d 11mo ago

It's funny how we see these threads every few months, and it's always the same thing (referring to the discussion below this comment as well). Linux people (myself included) are utterly blind to the rough edges on Linux. Even something like Mint, which is probably the best starting place for someone coming from Windows, can have weird issues depending on your hardware. On the other hand, Windows users are hilariously misinformed about the state of the Linux Desktop. To hear them talk you'd think we're still back in 1997. All of that said, for anyone curious, it is 100% worth trying out. Linux has come a LONG way. Mint is great for general usage, Bazzite is a good choice for gaming. Unless you're playing competitive shooters it's basically a guarantee the games you want to play run on Linux. There will be some rough edges and stuff to get use to, but IMO it's worth a try at least.

my_brain_saying 11mo ago
To be fair to Linux, Windows has many, many rough edges as well. The difficult part for newbies is that those rough edges are _different_. In the long run I feel pretty confident saying that Linux is overall better, and that's because of the customizability. Ultimately, with some experience, one can essentially choose one’s own rough edges :P
- scuff3d 11mo ago
  The problem is where the rough edges are at. On Windows they are mostly off the beaten path. I have a Windows PC setup as my media computer because my wife doesn't want to deal with Linux, and I've never once had an issue with the audio or Bluetooth. On my Fedora desktop and Arch laptop I have audio/Bluetooth issues at least every couple of weeks. In addition, my wife needs access to Adobe products, my brother needs access to Office. Those are non-negotiable for them because in both cases it's for work. I'm a Linux fan, I don't even want to go back to Windows for my personal computer, but Windows is still a smoother experience for the majority of people.

TheCoelacanth 11mo ago

Installing windows has been harder than Linux for at least 15 years. Windows just came pre-installed for most people.