6 ms·

"FTP is dead" - shared web hosting would like a word. Quite a few web hosts still talk about using FTP to upload websites to the hosting server. Yes, these days

by cricalix 11mo ago

"FTP is dead" - shared web hosting would like a word. Quite a few web hosts still talk about using FTP to upload websites to the hosting server. Yes, these days you can upload SSH keys and possibly use SFTP, but the docs still talk about tools like FileZilla and basic FTP. Exhibit A: https://help.ovhcloud.com/csm/en-ie-web-hosting-ftp-storage-connection?id=kb_article_view&sysparm_article=KB0052697 https://help.ovhcloud.com/csm/en-ie-web-hosting-ftp-storage-...

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
jasongill 11mo ago
Shared hosting is dying, but not yet dead; FTP is dying with it - it's really the last big use case for FTP now that software distribution and academia have moved away from FTP. As shared hosting continues to decline in popularity, FTP is going along with it. Like you, I will miss the glory days of FTP :'(
- theshackleford 11mo ago
  Shared hosting is in decline in much the same way as it was in 2015. Aka everyone involved is still making money hand over fist despite continued reports of its death right around the corner.
  - jasongill 11mo ago
    No, not at all the case. There has been continued consolidation of the shared hosting space, plus consumer interest in "a website" has declined sharply now that small businesses just feel that they need an instagram to get started. Combine that with site builders eating at shared hosting's market share, and it's not looking good for the future of the "old school" shared hosting industry that you are thinking of.
    - SoftTalker 11mo ago
      Seems short sighted, a lot of older people and privacy conscious people of all ages avoid social media. But I guess if they are sustaining a business on only Instagram, good for them.
    - theshackleford 11mo ago
      > There has been continued consolidation of the shared hosting space That’s been happening, at least from my own memory, since at least the mid-2000s. > plus consumer interest in "a website" has declined sharply now that small businesses just feel that they need an instagram to get started. Ah yes, the 2020s version of “just start a Facebook page.” The more things change, the more they stay the same I suppose. > Combine that with site builders eating at shared hosting's market share I remember hearing that for the first time in I wanna say...2006? It sure did cause a panic for at least a little while. > and it's not looking good for the future of the "old school" shared hosting industry that you are thinking of. Yes, I've heard this one more times than I can count too. The funny thing is, I’ve been hearing this same “shared hosting is dying” narrative for nearly two decades now. Yet, in that time, I’ve seen multiple companies launch, thrive, and sell for multi-million dollar exits. But sure, this time it’s definitely the death knell. Meanwhile, I assure you, the bigger players in the space are still making money hand over fist. https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/web-hosting-market https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/web-host... > By hosting type, shared hosting led with 37.5% of the web hosting market share in 2024
      - jasongill 11mo ago
        I was in the space from the late 90's, acquired ~30 brands and was the largest private consolidator of shared hosting, and sold to a Fortune 500 in 2015. Sounds like you had a similar experience as mine. There's no way you can deny that the glory days of shared hosting are over - while there is still a little money to be made by setting up a VPS with cPanel, and money to be made if you are WebPros or Newfold, the market is contracting and has been for years due to the factors I listed. The Cheval list used to be the hottest marketplace on the planet and now is just a shell of it's former self, unfortunately.
  - tredre3 11mo ago
    The number of shared hosting providers has drastically declined since the 2000s. I would posit that things like squarespace/hosted wordpress took the lion share, with the advent of $5-10 VPS filling the remaining niches. The remaining hosting companies certainly still make a lot of money, a shared hosting business is basically on autopilot once set up (I used to own one, hence why I still track the market) and they can be overcommitted like crazy.
    - immibis 11mo ago
      Source on the number of providers declining?
      - nativeit 11mo ago
        Probably worth noting also that declining number of providers does not equal a declining number of customers. I know every company I engaged with ~15-years ago has been acquired at least once.
        immibis 11mo ago
        And there are new ones all the time.
    - theshackleford 11mo ago
      > The number of shared hosting providers has drastically declined since the 2000s Yeah, there’s definitely been some wild consolidation. I’ve actually been involved in quite a few acquisitions myself over the last decade in one form or another. > (I used to own one, hence why I still track the market) I’m still in the industry, though in a very different segment now. I do still keep a small handful of legacy customers, folks I’ve known for years, on shared setups, but it’s more of a “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” kind of thing now. It’s not really a profit play, more a mix of nostalgia and habit.
- bawolff 11mo ago
  I think the true death of ftp was amazon s3 deciding to use their own protocol instead of ftp, as s3 is basically the same niche.
  - HumanOstrich 11mo ago
    FTP does not even come close to supporting the use cases of S3, especially now.
    - bawolff 11mo ago
      Yeah, but the average s3 user doesnt care about most of those most of the time. Just like how there are usecases ftp supports that s3 doesn't.
- valiant55 11mo ago
  I think everyone is underestimating how much B2B file exchange happens over SFTP/FTPS. I'm in healthcare and my system moves thousands of files up and down from over 100 unique hosts daily.
SoftTalker 11mo ago
I haven't used old school FTP in probably 15 years. Surely we're not talking about using that unencrypted protocol in 2025? From that link: 2. SSH connection You will need advanced knowledge and an OVHcloud web hosting plan Pro or Performance to use this access type. Well, maybe we are. I'd cross that provider off my list right there.
- carlosjobim 11mo ago
  FTP still works great and encryption is a non-priority for 100% of users.
  - SXX 11mo ago
    It should be priority for hosting companies though since leaked credentials and websites hosting malware is a problem.
    - Nextgrid 11mo ago
      Shared hosting companies are still exposing cPanel/WHMCS to the outside world. You don't need FTP passwords to pwn this kind of crap.
  - creatonez 11mo ago
    Transport encryption should be a huge priority for everyone. It's completely unacceptable to continue using unencrypted protocols over the public internet. Especially for the use case of transferring files to and from the backend of a web host. Not using it in that scenario is freely handing over control over your backend to everything in between you and the host, putting everyone at risk in the process.
    - bigstrat2003 11mo ago
      > It's completely unacceptable to continue using unencrypted protocols over the public internet. That is nonsense. The reality is that most data simply is not sensitive, and there is no valid reason to encrypt it. I wouldn't use insecure FTP because credentials, but there's no good reason to encrypt your blog or something.
waste_monk 11mo ago
Also worth noting that FTPS (FTP over TLS) exists and obviates the fuss around SSH TOFU and key management etc. Especially given we're in the era of free certificates via Let's Encrypt, this is a great option. The main downside is people will sometimes assume you mean SFTP (not having heard of FTPS or realising they are different), and then get upset when it doesn't work as they expect. However good tooling will support both e.g. Filezilla.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

jasongill 11mo ago

Shared hosting is dying, but not yet dead; FTP is dying with it - it's really the last big use case for FTP now that software distribution and academia have moved away from FTP. As shared hosting continues to decline in popularity, FTP is going along with it. Like you, I will miss the glory days of FTP :'(

theshackleford 11mo ago
Shared hosting is in decline in much the same way as it was in 2015. Aka everyone involved is still making money hand over fist despite continued reports of its death right around the corner.
- jasongill 11mo ago
  No, not at all the case. There has been continued consolidation of the shared hosting space, plus consumer interest in "a website" has declined sharply now that small businesses just feel that they need an instagram to get started. Combine that with site builders eating at shared hosting's market share, and it's not looking good for the future of the "old school" shared hosting industry that you are thinking of.
  - SoftTalker 11mo ago
    Seems short sighted, a lot of older people and privacy conscious people of all ages avoid social media. But I guess if they are sustaining a business on only Instagram, good for them.
  - theshackleford 11mo ago
    > There has been continued consolidation of the shared hosting space That’s been happening, at least from my own memory, since at least the mid-2000s. > plus consumer interest in "a website" has declined sharply now that small businesses just feel that they need an instagram to get started. Ah yes, the 2020s version of “just start a Facebook page.” The more things change, the more they stay the same I suppose. > Combine that with site builders eating at shared hosting's market share I remember hearing that for the first time in I wanna say...2006? It sure did cause a panic for at least a little while. > and it's not looking good for the future of the "old school" shared hosting industry that you are thinking of. Yes, I've heard this one more times than I can count too. The funny thing is, I’ve been hearing this same “shared hosting is dying” narrative for nearly two decades now. Yet, in that time, I’ve seen multiple companies launch, thrive, and sell for multi-million dollar exits. But sure, this time it’s definitely the death knell. Meanwhile, I assure you, the bigger players in the space are still making money hand over fist. https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/web-hosting-market https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/web-host... > By hosting type, shared hosting led with 37.5% of the web hosting market share in 2024
    - jasongill 11mo ago
      I was in the space from the late 90's, acquired ~30 brands and was the largest private consolidator of shared hosting, and sold to a Fortune 500 in 2015. Sounds like you had a similar experience as mine. There's no way you can deny that the glory days of shared hosting are over - while there is still a little money to be made by setting up a VPS with cPanel, and money to be made if you are WebPros or Newfold, the market is contracting and has been for years due to the factors I listed. The Cheval list used to be the hottest marketplace on the planet and now is just a shell of it's former self, unfortunately.
- tredre3 11mo ago
  The number of shared hosting providers has drastically declined since the 2000s. I would posit that things like squarespace/hosted wordpress took the lion share, with the advent of $5-10 VPS filling the remaining niches. The remaining hosting companies certainly still make a lot of money, a shared hosting business is basically on autopilot once set up (I used to own one, hence why I still track the market) and they can be overcommitted like crazy.
  - immibis 11mo ago
    Source on the number of providers declining?
    - nativeit 11mo ago
      Probably worth noting also that declining number of providers does not equal a declining number of customers. I know every company I engaged with ~15-years ago has been acquired at least once.
      - immibis 11mo ago
        And there are new ones all the time.
  - theshackleford 11mo ago
    > The number of shared hosting providers has drastically declined since the 2000s Yeah, there’s definitely been some wild consolidation. I’ve actually been involved in quite a few acquisitions myself over the last decade in one form or another. > (I used to own one, hence why I still track the market) I’m still in the industry, though in a very different segment now. I do still keep a small handful of legacy customers, folks I’ve known for years, on shared setups, but it’s more of a “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” kind of thing now. It’s not really a profit play, more a mix of nostalgia and habit.
bawolff 11mo ago
I think the true death of ftp was amazon s3 deciding to use their own protocol instead of ftp, as s3 is basically the same niche.
- HumanOstrich 11mo ago
  FTP does not even come close to supporting the use cases of S3, especially now.
  - bawolff 11mo ago
    Yeah, but the average s3 user doesnt care about most of those most of the time. Just like how there are usecases ftp supports that s3 doesn't.
valiant55 11mo ago
I think everyone is underestimating how much B2B file exchange happens over SFTP/FTPS. I'm in healthcare and my system moves thousands of files up and down from over 100 unique hosts daily.

SoftTalker 11mo ago

I haven't used old school FTP in probably 15 years. Surely we're not talking about using that unencrypted protocol in 2025? From that link: 2. SSH connection You will need advanced knowledge and an OVHcloud web hosting plan Pro or Performance to use this access type. Well, maybe we are. I'd cross that provider off my list right there.

carlosjobim 11mo ago
FTP still works great and encryption is a non-priority for 100% of users.
- SXX 11mo ago
  It should be priority for hosting companies though since leaked credentials and websites hosting malware is a problem.
  - Nextgrid 11mo ago
    Shared hosting companies are still exposing cPanel/WHMCS to the outside world. You don't need FTP passwords to pwn this kind of crap.
- creatonez 11mo ago
  Transport encryption should be a huge priority for everyone. It's completely unacceptable to continue using unencrypted protocols over the public internet. Especially for the use case of transferring files to and from the backend of a web host. Not using it in that scenario is freely handing over control over your backend to everything in between you and the host, putting everyone at risk in the process.
  - bigstrat2003 11mo ago
    > It's completely unacceptable to continue using unencrypted protocols over the public internet. That is nonsense. The reality is that most data simply is not sensitive, and there is no valid reason to encrypt it. I wouldn't use insecure FTP because credentials, but there's no good reason to encrypt your blog or something.

waste_monk 11mo ago

Also worth noting that FTPS (FTP over TLS) exists and obviates the fuss around SSH TOFU and key management etc. Especially given we're in the era of free certificates via Let's Encrypt, this is a great option. The main downside is people will sometimes assume you mean SFTP (not having heard of FTPS or realising they are different), and then get upset when it doesn't work as they expect. However good tooling will support both e.g. Filezilla.