39 ms·

I've used Firefox for 15 years and I really don't want to use Chrome. Can Mozilla just, like, make a good browser?

by sdairs 11mo ago

braebo 11mo ago
Use Brave. It’s de-googled, privacy-centric chromium with built-in uBlock-style ad/tracker blocking. Best of both worlds!
- presbyterian 11mo ago
  There are some good reasons to consider not using Brave: https://www.spacebar.news/stop-using-brave-browser/ https://www.spacebar.news/stop-using-brave-browser/
  - archerx 11mo ago
    Still going to use Brave though.
  - bdangubic 11mo ago
    this is from 2023 and is also mostly wrong on almost all accounts, basically FUD
- protoster 11mo ago
  De-googled Chromium? This does not compute.
  - hypeatei 11mo ago
    De-googled in the "we make some patches to remove things we think are hostile from Google" sense but yes: they're still completely reliant on them for engine development.
- sdairs 11mo ago
  Yeah I'm not at all interested in Brave, that's a dumpster fire of it's own. And that still gives control to Google by owning the defacto implementation of browsing the internet. There needs to be an actual alternative to Chrome.
- babypuncher 11mo ago
  So much about Brave raises scammy red flags every time I look at it. However, my main reason for ditching Chrome years ago was the fact that I think a browser engine monoculture is bad for the web as a whole, especially if that engine is primarily controlled by a single corporate entity. Manifest v3 and other Google nonsense came later, and are extra reasons to stay away from Chrome, but I still feel strongly that a good alternative needs to use a different engine.
- grayhatter 11mo ago
  Brave, The browser that brags about how they ignore consent!
yoavm 11mo ago
I think they make a pretty good browser. It is performant, supports blocking ads easily, standard compatible, customizable and recently even added support for vertical tabs. What are you missing?
- PaulHoule 11mo ago
  The ad blocker keeps it viable.
- latexr 11mo ago
  Personally (I’m not the person you asked) I’m missing AppleScript support. Firefox is the only major browser without it, and the bug report for it is old enough to drink in every country. That lack of capability prevents it from being my daily driver, even if the rest were good enough (I’m not saying it isn’t, I’m saying I have no reason to find out). I am certain I have inadvertently pushed many people away from Firefox for that reason alone, because when they ask for me to add Firefox support for my tools, I have to tell them it’s impossible. I have tried to talk to Firefox developers about that a few times, at open-source conferences and such, but they think AppleScript is some power-user feature and fail (refuse?) to understand power users drive adoption and create tools that regular users rely on. I remember whenever a Firefox story was submitted on HN, multiple people commented “I want to use Firefox but it’s missing <whatever>”. Then Mozilla started doing a lot of questionable stuff (all of which they eventually abandoned) outside their core competency and even pulling distasteful marketing stunts, and at some point people started commenting even that. I presume many got tired and gave up on Firefox entirely. I almost have. I now root for them only conceptually, because browser diversity is good. I also noticed that no matter how politely someone pointed out on HN “Firefox doesn’t fit for me because of <whatever>”, they always got downvoted. If valid polite criticism is buried, no wonder things stay the way they are.
  - dingaling 11mo ago
    MacOS, Linux, FreeBSD and everything else squeeze into just 15% of Firefox's user base. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware They're really not going to be able to dedicate resources to something as bijou as AppleScript.
SECProto 11mo ago
Not defending mozilla adding AI to firefox, but... If you've tried chrome recently, you'll know that it's jam packed full with even more stuff you don't want. And the article lays out how to easily disable all AI in firefox (which you cant do at all in Chrome)
- ASalazarMX 11mo ago
  I'm very pleased that disabling browser.ml.enable doesn't disable local translation. I don't need a dedicated UI for chat bots, but I find local translation very useful.
array_key_first 11mo ago
Yes, because as we all know, Google would never shove AI or ads in your face. I disagree with Mozilla here, too - but you can't cast Chrome as a magic spell. Chrome sucks ass. Google sucks ass. It's trivial to suck less ass than Google.
- sdairs 11mo ago
  Chrome does suck ass, hence why I use Firefox and said I don't want to use Chrome, lol. But I want Firefox to be a good browser in its own right, not just "not Chrome". Firefox is just about over the "acceptable" line for me, as a power user for 15+ years (and under that line for most normal users) so I continue to use it, but they're neglecting it in favor of these useless AI features.
iberator 11mo ago
Firefox focus
- mingus88 11mo ago
  I use focus daily, but it’s not a daily driver. It doesn’t to tabs, and links that the site forces to open in a new tab often don’t work. It also doesn’t do JS well by design. I use Firefox focus for throw away links I come across, but for everything else I need a full browser
  - Kwpolska 11mo ago
    You can’t open a new tab yourself, but you can open it by long-pressing a link. If you’re running in a Custom Tab on Android, you need to switch to the full Focus if multiple tabs are involved.
akomtu 11mo ago
Being good doesn't pay well these days. Being evil, on other hand, does.
move-on-by 11mo ago
Longtime Firefox user here too. After the new privacy policy terms, I jumped to waterfox. I’m hoping it can last long enough for Ladybird to become stable enough to use as a daily driver. It’s very sad to watch Mozilla’s demise at the hands of advertisers.

I've used Firefox for 15 years and I really don't want to use Chrome. Can Mozilla just, like, make a good browser?

by sdairs 11mo ago

I've used Firefox for 15 years and I really don't want to use Chrome. Can Mozilla just, like, make a good browser?

braebo 11mo ago

Use Brave. It’s de-googled, privacy-centric chromium with built-in uBlock-style ad/tracker blocking. Best of both worlds!

presbyterian 11mo ago
There are some good reasons to consider not using Brave: https://www.spacebar.news/stop-using-brave-browser/ https://www.spacebar.news/stop-using-brave-browser/
- archerx 11mo ago
  Still going to use Brave though.
- bdangubic 11mo ago
  this is from 2023 and is also mostly wrong on almost all accounts, basically FUD
protoster 11mo ago
De-googled Chromium? This does not compute.
- hypeatei 11mo ago
  De-googled in the "we make some patches to remove things we think are hostile from Google" sense but yes: they're still completely reliant on them for engine development.
sdairs 11mo ago
Yeah I'm not at all interested in Brave, that's a dumpster fire of it's own. And that still gives control to Google by owning the defacto implementation of browsing the internet. There needs to be an actual alternative to Chrome.
babypuncher 11mo ago
So much about Brave raises scammy red flags every time I look at it. However, my main reason for ditching Chrome years ago was the fact that I think a browser engine monoculture is bad for the web as a whole, especially if that engine is primarily controlled by a single corporate entity. Manifest v3 and other Google nonsense came later, and are extra reasons to stay away from Chrome, but I still feel strongly that a good alternative needs to use a different engine.
grayhatter 11mo ago
Brave, The browser that brags about how they ignore consent!

yoavm 11mo ago

I think they make a pretty good browser. It is performant, supports blocking ads easily, standard compatible, customizable and recently even added support for vertical tabs. What are you missing?

PaulHoule 11mo ago
The ad blocker keeps it viable.
latexr 11mo ago
Personally (I’m not the person you asked) I’m missing AppleScript support. Firefox is the only major browser without it, and the bug report for it is old enough to drink in every country. That lack of capability prevents it from being my daily driver, even if the rest were good enough (I’m not saying it isn’t, I’m saying I have no reason to find out). I am certain I have inadvertently pushed many people away from Firefox for that reason alone, because when they ask for me to add Firefox support for my tools, I have to tell them it’s impossible. I have tried to talk to Firefox developers about that a few times, at open-source conferences and such, but they think AppleScript is some power-user feature and fail (refuse?) to understand power users drive adoption and create tools that regular users rely on. I remember whenever a Firefox story was submitted on HN, multiple people commented “I want to use Firefox but it’s missing <whatever>”. Then Mozilla started doing a lot of questionable stuff (all of which they eventually abandoned) outside their core competency and even pulling distasteful marketing stunts, and at some point people started commenting even that. I presume many got tired and gave up on Firefox entirely. I almost have. I now root for them only conceptually, because browser diversity is good. I also noticed that no matter how politely someone pointed out on HN “Firefox doesn’t fit for me because of <whatever>”, they always got downvoted. If valid polite criticism is buried, no wonder things stay the way they are.
- dingaling 11mo ago
  MacOS, Linux, FreeBSD and everything else squeeze into just 15% of Firefox's user base. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware They're really not going to be able to dedicate resources to something as bijou as AppleScript.

SECProto 11mo ago

Not defending mozilla adding AI to firefox, but... If you've tried chrome recently, you'll know that it's jam packed full with even more stuff you don't want. And the article lays out how to easily disable all AI in firefox (which you cant do at all in Chrome)

ASalazarMX 11mo ago
I'm very pleased that disabling browser.ml.enable doesn't disable local translation. I don't need a dedicated UI for chat bots, but I find local translation very useful.

array_key_first 11mo ago

Yes, because as we all know, Google would never shove AI or ads in your face. I disagree with Mozilla here, too - but you can't cast Chrome as a magic spell. Chrome sucks ass. Google sucks ass. It's trivial to suck less ass than Google.

sdairs 11mo ago
Chrome does suck ass, hence why I use Firefox and said I don't want to use Chrome, lol. But I want Firefox to be a good browser in its own right, not just "not Chrome". Firefox is just about over the "acceptable" line for me, as a power user for 15+ years (and under that line for most normal users) so I continue to use it, but they're neglecting it in favor of these useless AI features.

iberator 11mo ago

Firefox focus

mingus88 11mo ago
I use focus daily, but it’s not a daily driver. It doesn’t to tabs, and links that the site forces to open in a new tab often don’t work. It also doesn’t do JS well by design. I use Firefox focus for throw away links I come across, but for everything else I need a full browser
- Kwpolska 11mo ago
  You can’t open a new tab yourself, but you can open it by long-pressing a link. If you’re running in a Custom Tab on Android, you need to switch to the full Focus if multiple tabs are involved.

akomtu 11mo ago

Being good doesn't pay well these days. Being evil, on other hand, does.

move-on-by 11mo ago

Longtime Firefox user here too. After the new privacy policy terms, I jumped to waterfox. I’m hoping it can last long enough for Ladybird to become stable enough to use as a daily driver. It’s very sad to watch Mozilla’s demise at the hands of advertisers.