4 ms·

>I'm not really sure what to do. Maybe this MacBook Pro was just a one-off, and I have to go back to buying Windows laptops and putting Linux on them. But they

by hanikesn 11mo ago

>I'm not really sure what to do. Maybe this MacBook Pro was just a one-off, and I have to go back to buying Windows laptops and putting Linux on them. But they just aren't as nice. Why would you think that? They're working hard on upstreaming all patches ATM, adding new hardware support will be much easier afterwards.

mort96 11mo ago
And what's the ETA for M5 support?
- scuff3d 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - bigyabai 11mo ago
    Alternatively, you can buy a laptop from an OEM that doesn't play keep-away with the Linux upstream using their drivers. I write lots of Linux software but I have no intention to explicitly support Asahi or Macs whatsoever. Apple's greed is not something I will support with my money or my time, if Apple wants to court the Linux community then they can do it the same way Intel, AMD and Nvidia get along with us. Making your fans reverse-engineer devicetree drivers is just insulting. Mac hardware is and will be a second-rate Linux experience, which is a shame because Apple could be competing with Nvidia for market share if they simply gave a shit.
    - rogerrogerr 11mo ago
      It's really pretty incredible - that people are putting up with Apple's "keep-away" is evidence of just how unbelievably far ahead they are in hardware.
      - bigyabai 11mo ago
        Or it could be a symbol of an unhealthy emotional attachment to Apple, that customers perceive to be symbiotic but business-wise is wholly parasitic. Like I said, Apple could be a real player... if they had any incentive to compete.
        latexr 11mo ago
        > Or it could be a symbol of an unhealthy emotional attachment to Apple Pretty hard to make that argument about people who explicitly want to get rid of Apple’s OS from their hardware.
        bigyabai 11mo ago
        Nope, as a former macOS user myself I can assure you it's quite trivial.
        bornfreddy 11mo ago
        Not really. Apple hardware is great, but MacOS sucks big time (compared to Linux).
        latexr 11mo ago
        And do you think it makes sense to argue that someone who says “macOS sucks big time” but likes their hardware has an “unhealthy emotional attachment to Apple”? If anything, it seems to show a pragmatic relationship (that whatever you like/need from each).
        bigyabai 11mo ago
        If someone likes their partner's body, but despises their personality and the way they treat them, I would call that an unhealthy emotional attachment, not a pragmatic relationship. It's almost never pragmatic to assume that your own suffering will necessarily yield a better outcome. Maybe your smoking hot partner eventually becomes a better person, but is it worth investing 10 years of mental anguish for the chance of getting there? A real pragmatist starts dating again, which forces their partner to stop taking themselves for granted. If Apple wasn't a literal monopoly, their customers could be holding them over a barrel and forcing their software products to compete naturally. macOS sucks because their customers have an unhealthy emotional attachment to Apple. Americans forfeit their opportunity to regulate Apple into real competition, and now we are paying the price with top-down app censorship, UI disaster updates and bugfixes that add more bugs than fixes.
    - xtracto 11mo ago
      I recently spent around $6k in a new 14in MacBook Pro with 128gb unified ram and 4tb HD. To replace my old Linux running 2012 MacBook pro. I searched throughly for something as close to that MBP hw conf but with Linux compatibility. There's just no hardware equivalent to what the Macbookpro, including the build quality. So I de idea to go for the MBP and install vmware + Linux. It's an amazing piece of hardware.
      - panny 11mo ago
        I work as a contractor these days. I find the teams with top spec macbooks have terribly bloated code bases, because they don't notice. Pulling into the project with my laptop with 8gbs of ram instantly recognizes the bloat. I point out the things they are doing wrong, and they typically know, but haven't cared to fix the issues. They end up wasting a mountain of money in production and ironically become very cost sensitive about hours worked instead.
  - internet2000 11mo ago
    That's not a helpful answer.
    - scuff3d 11mo ago
      How is that not helpful? A group of volunteers working in their spare time to do something incredibly difficult clearly aren't working fast enough for this person. The logical thing to do would be to jump in and help.
      - jama211 11mo ago
        Doesn’t give anything like an ETA… which was the question.
        scuff3d 11mo ago
        If you read the rest of the posts above the one I'm replying to I think it's pretty clear this wasn't a serious question. It was asked ironically as in "the rest of the work doesn't matter, they're taking too long to get M5 support out" I'm saying it's an open project and if people want to bitch they're going too slow they are welcome to contribute.
        Klonoar 11mo ago
        More cooks in the kitchen doesn't always move the needle. You're being needlessly flippant for no real reason.
        scuff3d 11mo ago
        No, I was making a point. Asahi Linux is a volunteer project. Devs commit their free time to work on something incredibly difficult, giving people the ability to run Linux on an entirely new platform, and all people can do is complain it isn't good enough. And this is just one example, you see this kind of crap all over the Open Source community. Providing constructive feedback is one thing, bitching that they aren't working fast enough is another. Either get involved and find some way to help out, or shut up.
- renewiltord 11mo ago
  It's funny that this exact question is mentioned in marcan's "I'm leaving Asahi Linux" blogpost, haha. > And, of course, “When is M3/M4 support coming?” https://marcan.st/2025/02/resigning-as-asahi-linux-project-lead/ https://marcan.st/2025/02/resigning-as-asahi-linux-project-l... It's just amusing to me that Linux users since the beginning of time have been working hard on ensuring the maintainers of their software get upset at them and quit working on their software. Over decades of seeing this, it is entertaining that people never change. There will be a great beauty to the vim v emacs wars in 5723 CE between the people of Gliese 251b and Gliese 251c.
  - mort96 11mo ago
    To be clear, I would not ordinarily ask these kinds of questions. I understand that things take time. That's why I'm resigned to the idea that Asahi will never again be roughly up to date with the latest Apple hardware. I only asked this question because hanikesn seems to think that Asahi will magically suddenly be up to date once they've upstreamed everything.
    - Reason077 11mo ago
      Would I be correct in thinking that once M3 is up and running, M4 (and M5?) - the basics at least - should be relatively easy due to architectural similarities? In the same way that M2 was relatively easy because it was quite similar to the M1?
      - chithanh 11mo ago
        No. One major obstacle with M4 support is SPTM. M5 has major GPU changes again so that is even more ways off.

mort96 11mo ago

And what's the ETA for M5 support?

scuff3d 11mo ago
[flagged]
- bigyabai 11mo ago
  Alternatively, you can buy a laptop from an OEM that doesn't play keep-away with the Linux upstream using their drivers. I write lots of Linux software but I have no intention to explicitly support Asahi or Macs whatsoever. Apple's greed is not something I will support with my money or my time, if Apple wants to court the Linux community then they can do it the same way Intel, AMD and Nvidia get along with us. Making your fans reverse-engineer devicetree drivers is just insulting. Mac hardware is and will be a second-rate Linux experience, which is a shame because Apple could be competing with Nvidia for market share if they simply gave a shit.
  - rogerrogerr 11mo ago
    It's really pretty incredible - that people are putting up with Apple's "keep-away" is evidence of just how unbelievably far ahead they are in hardware.
    - bigyabai 11mo ago
      Or it could be a symbol of an unhealthy emotional attachment to Apple, that customers perceive to be symbiotic but business-wise is wholly parasitic. Like I said, Apple could be a real player... if they had any incentive to compete.
      - latexr 11mo ago
        > Or it could be a symbol of an unhealthy emotional attachment to Apple Pretty hard to make that argument about people who explicitly want to get rid of Apple’s OS from their hardware.
        bigyabai 11mo ago
        Nope, as a former macOS user myself I can assure you it's quite trivial.
        bornfreddy 11mo ago
        Not really. Apple hardware is great, but MacOS sucks big time (compared to Linux).
        latexr 11mo ago
        And do you think it makes sense to argue that someone who says “macOS sucks big time” but likes their hardware has an “unhealthy emotional attachment to Apple”? If anything, it seems to show a pragmatic relationship (that whatever you like/need from each).
        bigyabai 11mo ago
        If someone likes their partner's body, but despises their personality and the way they treat them, I would call that an unhealthy emotional attachment, not a pragmatic relationship. It's almost never pragmatic to assume that your own suffering will necessarily yield a better outcome. Maybe your smoking hot partner eventually becomes a better person, but is it worth investing 10 years of mental anguish for the chance of getting there? A real pragmatist starts dating again, which forces their partner to stop taking themselves for granted. If Apple wasn't a literal monopoly, their customers could be holding them over a barrel and forcing their software products to compete naturally. macOS sucks because their customers have an unhealthy emotional attachment to Apple. Americans forfeit their opportunity to regulate Apple into real competition, and now we are paying the price with top-down app censorship, UI disaster updates and bugfixes that add more bugs than fixes.
  - xtracto 11mo ago
    I recently spent around $6k in a new 14in MacBook Pro with 128gb unified ram and 4tb HD. To replace my old Linux running 2012 MacBook pro. I searched throughly for something as close to that MBP hw conf but with Linux compatibility. There's just no hardware equivalent to what the Macbookpro, including the build quality. So I de idea to go for the MBP and install vmware + Linux. It's an amazing piece of hardware.
    - panny 11mo ago
      I work as a contractor these days. I find the teams with top spec macbooks have terribly bloated code bases, because they don't notice. Pulling into the project with my laptop with 8gbs of ram instantly recognizes the bloat. I point out the things they are doing wrong, and they typically know, but haven't cared to fix the issues. They end up wasting a mountain of money in production and ironically become very cost sensitive about hours worked instead.
- internet2000 11mo ago
  That's not a helpful answer.
  - scuff3d 11mo ago
    How is that not helpful? A group of volunteers working in their spare time to do something incredibly difficult clearly aren't working fast enough for this person. The logical thing to do would be to jump in and help.
    - jama211 11mo ago
      Doesn’t give anything like an ETA… which was the question.
      - scuff3d 11mo ago
        If you read the rest of the posts above the one I'm replying to I think it's pretty clear this wasn't a serious question. It was asked ironically as in "the rest of the work doesn't matter, they're taking too long to get M5 support out" I'm saying it's an open project and if people want to bitch they're going too slow they are welcome to contribute.
        Klonoar 11mo ago
        More cooks in the kitchen doesn't always move the needle. You're being needlessly flippant for no real reason.
        scuff3d 11mo ago
        No, I was making a point. Asahi Linux is a volunteer project. Devs commit their free time to work on something incredibly difficult, giving people the ability to run Linux on an entirely new platform, and all people can do is complain it isn't good enough. And this is just one example, you see this kind of crap all over the Open Source community. Providing constructive feedback is one thing, bitching that they aren't working fast enough is another. Either get involved and find some way to help out, or shut up.
renewiltord 11mo ago
It's funny that this exact question is mentioned in marcan's "I'm leaving Asahi Linux" blogpost, haha. > And, of course, “When is M3/M4 support coming?” https://marcan.st/2025/02/resigning-as-asahi-linux-project-lead/ https://marcan.st/2025/02/resigning-as-asahi-linux-project-l... It's just amusing to me that Linux users since the beginning of time have been working hard on ensuring the maintainers of their software get upset at them and quit working on their software. Over decades of seeing this, it is entertaining that people never change. There will be a great beauty to the vim v emacs wars in 5723 CE between the people of Gliese 251b and Gliese 251c.
- mort96 11mo ago
  To be clear, I would not ordinarily ask these kinds of questions. I understand that things take time. That's why I'm resigned to the idea that Asahi will never again be roughly up to date with the latest Apple hardware. I only asked this question because hanikesn seems to think that Asahi will magically suddenly be up to date once they've upstreamed everything.
  - Reason077 11mo ago
    Would I be correct in thinking that once M3 is up and running, M4 (and M5?) - the basics at least - should be relatively easy due to architectural similarities? In the same way that M2 was relatively easy because it was quite similar to the M1?
    - chithanh 11mo ago
      No. One major obstacle with M4 support is SPTM. M5 has major GPU changes again so that is even more ways off.