6 ms·

"previously people could cheat, now they can't" ?? how is that bad.

by bbstats 11mo ago

ClarityJones 11mo ago
That's not the part that's bad. I don't care whether they cheat or not. I don't want the government policing what is and isn't fair in a poker / NBA / etc game. I think arresting people for cheating legitimizes backroom / mafia gambling. All the other rings (and those left from this one) can say "Look, those other guys got arrested. The law protects you. We don't want that to happen to us. Our game is definitely fair." Of course, they too are cheating. The only reason the FBI cares here is probably because one of the victims had pull. If you or I get cheated, the FBI won't care about that.
- Aurornis 11mo ago
  > I don't want the government policing what is and isn't fair in a poker / NBA / etc game. Operating a business that defrauds people is the domain of government enforcement. I think you’re trying to reduce this to some sort of small scale friendly poker game between friends. It was not. It was an organized crime business operation that was systematically committing fraud. Fraud is illegal and within scope of government enforcement.
  - ClarityJones 11mo ago
    The raison d'etre for the offense of fraud is to protect commerce. The state / society needs to enforce a basic level of trust for Business A to buy widgets from Business B, and for Customer C to be employed, etc. Betting on sports / poker / etc. is not part of that. Nobody is creating anything of value when you spin the roulette wheel. At best, the house wins and most players lose... and that is a harm to society. At worst, the house cheats or some subset of players cheat, and most players lose... and that too is a harm to society. (Edit: At worse worst, it leads to violence, extortion, etc...) Gambling does not deserve the legitimacy of being policed.
    - im3w1l 11mo ago
      If the police don't police it then the marks will pay someone to whack the cheaters.
- bbstats 11mo ago
  did you read the article?
  - cwillu 11mo ago
    While I agree that they're probably not arguing in good faith, “Did you even read the article?” is explicitly called out in the hn guidelines.
- pton_xd 11mo ago
  > I think arresting people for cheating legitimizes backroom / mafia gambling. All the other rings (and those left from this one) can say "Look, those other guys got arrested. The law protects you." Disagree, this case demonstrates the exact opposite -- you think your underground game is legit because there's celebrities playing? Think again, it's a far more sophisticated scam operation than you could imagine. > The only reason the FBI cares here is probably because one of the victims had pull. Again, I doubt it. Likely it's because the mafia is involved, and according to the indictment "the defendants and their co-conspirators used threats of force and violence to secure the repayment of debts from illegal poker games."
f1shy 11mo ago
I think the comment goes more in the direction: “previously playing poker was a totally private thing, didn’t cost me a dime, now part of my taxes is used for that”
fukka42 11mo ago
I'd appreciate it if the police could help stop cheating in my kids' soccer game as well. One of those brats keeps pretending to be injured! Lock him up.

"previously people could cheat, now they can't" ?? how is that bad.

by bbstats 11mo ago

"previously people could cheat, now they can't" ?? how is that bad.

That's not the part that's bad. I don't care whether they cheat or not. I don't want the government policing what is and isn't fair in a poker / NBA / etc game. I think arresting people for cheating legitimizes backroom / mafia gambling. All the other rings (and those left from this one) can say "Look, those other guys got arrested. The law protects you. We don't want that to happen to us. Our game is definitely fair." Of course, they too are cheating. The only reason the FBI cares here is probably because one of the victims had pull. If you or I get cheated, the FBI won't care about that.

Aurornis 11mo ago
> I don't want the government policing what is and isn't fair in a poker / NBA / etc game. Operating a business that defrauds people is the domain of government enforcement. I think you’re trying to reduce this to some sort of small scale friendly poker game between friends. It was not. It was an organized crime business operation that was systematically committing fraud. Fraud is illegal and within scope of government enforcement.
- ClarityJones 11mo ago
  The raison d'etre for the offense of fraud is to protect commerce. The state / society needs to enforce a basic level of trust for Business A to buy widgets from Business B, and for Customer C to be employed, etc. Betting on sports / poker / etc. is not part of that. Nobody is creating anything of value when you spin the roulette wheel. At best, the house wins and most players lose... and that is a harm to society. At worst, the house cheats or some subset of players cheat, and most players lose... and that too is a harm to society. (Edit: At worse worst, it leads to violence, extortion, etc...) Gambling does not deserve the legitimacy of being policed.
  - im3w1l 11mo ago
    If the police don't police it then the marks will pay someone to whack the cheaters.
bbstats 11mo ago
did you read the article?
- cwillu 11mo ago
  While I agree that they're probably not arguing in good faith, “Did you even read the article?” is explicitly called out in the hn guidelines.
pton_xd 11mo ago
> I think arresting people for cheating legitimizes backroom / mafia gambling. All the other rings (and those left from this one) can say "Look, those other guys got arrested. The law protects you." Disagree, this case demonstrates the exact opposite -- you think your underground game is legit because there's celebrities playing? Think again, it's a far more sophisticated scam operation than you could imagine. > The only reason the FBI cares here is probably because one of the victims had pull. Again, I doubt it. Likely it's because the mafia is involved, and according to the indictment "the defendants and their co-conspirators used threats of force and violence to secure the repayment of debts from illegal poker games."

f1shy 11mo ago

I think the comment goes more in the direction: “previously playing poker was a totally private thing, didn’t cost me a dime, now part of my taxes is used for that”

fukka42 11mo ago

I'd appreciate it if the police could help stop cheating in my kids' soccer game as well. One of those brats keeps pretending to be injured! Lock him up.