8 ms·

Meeting A Troll

673 points by Liu 14y ago

smoyer 14y ago
Wow ... I'd like to shake your hand because I think you handled your friend's son with an amazing amount of grace. It's horrible that you had to be tormented like that, but at 17 he may have learned how to be human. In my experience, not many of us understood empathy at that age. Let me know when you're in the U.S. and perhaps I can buy you a dinner.
- skeletonjelly 14y ago
  Agreed. Always refreshing to see somebody putting in hard work to make this world a better place rather than taking the easier road (whatever that would have been).
ChuckMcM 14y ago
That is a pretty compelling story. I'm not sure I could let it go without a bit more narrative around the 'game thing.' It sounds too much like 'making your bones' in a street gang.
- biot 14y ago
  When I read that, I thought it was a reference to the movie The Game: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119174/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119174/
- blauwbilgorgel 14y ago
  About how he'd become engrossed in conspiracy sites. Anti-semitism is rife on conspiracy sites. I just assumed 'the game' thing was started on one such conspiracy site. Paranoia, hatred and naivety can be breeding grounds for these attacks. I view it less as a street gang game, and more of a game of 'hunt the Illuminati'. Doesn't make it any less despicable. If anything these conspiracy sites (and its posters) carry part of the blame for incitement.
mwhooker 14y ago
compelling story, but I'd like to know how he translated an ip address in to a street address.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  Well, there's a few possibilities. For example, if the ip address was associated with a DN, you could do a reverse-lookup and then do a whois.
  - loboman 14y ago
    Also he might know the friend's ip if the friend sent him an email.
    - DanBC 14y ago
      Knowing the IP is the easy bit. Taking that IP and finding a street address is the tricky bit. It can be done with court orders. (In England. I have no idea how Ireland does it.)
      - loboman 14y ago
        If he knows the friend ip, he knows that they both match (friend = troll).
        DanBC 14y ago
        Ah yes, sorry. I missed that.
- adrianpike 14y ago
  I'm also curious about this. One option would be to lure the troll to a site & pull down the location info from his browser - I'm not sure how readily the troll would authorize that, but maybe with some clever social engineering it could be done. His father did mention he was on his mobile a ton, so it's possible he got pretty accurate data, instead of just his local ISP. (Related - I'm on Clear right now, and apparently I'm in Portland. I'm actually up near Canada.)
DanBC 14y ago
> I responded: "I'm not criminalizing a 17 year old kid and ruining his future. I really hope restorative justice works. Well done for doing something that must have been incredibly tough.
autophil 14y ago
I'm very sorry you went through that. I actually couldn't finish reading it - too unsettling. I hope you and yours are okay and this is behind you.
- dkokelley 14y ago
  If it helps, it has a restorative ending. I would recommend trying to get trough it knowing how it ends.
- kefs 14y ago
  finish it
revnja 14y ago
I hope that The Troll learned something from this experience. It is truly interesting to me what kind of mental processes drive this kind of behavior.
- ANTSANTS 14y ago
  Let's hope it wasn't "use a proxy."
  - dkarl 14y ago
    Or "cry when you get caught."
    - hide 14y ago
      No worries, eventually he’ ll darn goof and the cyber police will be there to take care of the rest ;)
drhayes9 14y ago
My wife and I just had a baby and it has made me realize that I would burn the world to cinders in defense of my family. I have no idea how this guy reached through the fire and shook this kid's hand. Wow.
- smoyer 14y ago
  It's an amazing feeling isn't it! I have four kids with two now in college and I have a bit of advice. Tuck the memory of how instinctually protective you're feeling away so that you remember it when they're teenagers and have managed to inspire the opposite feelings in you.
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  It is an amazing experience to learn that there is somebody who is more important to you than you, isn't it? Whatever combination of biology, psychology and sociology that brings that about, it is something to experience!
  - prawn 14y ago
    I've got a nine-week old. Loved your comment and I'm passing it on to my wife. So true.
- giardini 14y ago
  "Gort, Klaatu barada nikto. Klaatu barada nikto." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto
citricsquid 14y ago
that is not "trolling", that's (pretty bad) harassment. I get the feeling this is a story written to prove a point. Nobody would refer to this as "trolling".
- zxcdw 14y ago
  How would you define trolling and a troll? I'm sincerely asking since it is my understanding that these days harassment over the internet is often cited as trolling, as in for example "We trolled Jane by spamming her inbox full of animal abuse and violence lol". I work part-time at a school with kids ranging from 7 to 16, and of what I've tried to inquire them about the subject(I'm 22 myself, so it's quite easy to go into the subject by mentioning some local websites and memes, kids open up voluntarily very well), it's exactly the online harassing and bullying which is considered(perhaps a form of) trolling. These are exactly the imageboard kids who find it cool to "piss people off". Why? "I dont know. For the lulz". It's like a hobby for some. I personally find this stuff disgusting and directly relate it to bullying in school. Just because it happens online is not any more tolerable. Turns out many people disagree.
  - sukuriant 14y ago
    Perhaps it's the intensity that's the real issue. I "troll" my friends with great frequency. Screw with them, tease them, hold clearly contrary positions just to get them riled up, but it's all in fun and stops before their feelings honestly get hurt (or if they are, I apologize). That's clearly a different level than the other sorts of trolling that I've seen. ... admittedly, people that are "from the internet" are familiar with trolling and know when they're being trolled. They can take the bait and play along, or stop it in its tracks by not feeding the troll the frustration he desires. People that aren't "from the internet", or perhaps aren't from the self-mocking parts of the internet haven't developed the thick skin (why should they?) required to deal with trolls. ... and I suppose some people just enjoy going after the people that aren't thick skinned. That's ... while fun to some, not really a civil thing to do. I suppose there's some level of initiation into the "Internet" that includes being trolled -- and trolling back, or growing some skin, etc. This wasn't one of those cases, from what I gathered (I didn't finish the article, as the very beginning it started looking clearly like harassment instead of the level of trolling I'm familiar with). I started this response with a point, but I've lost it. Either way, there is clearly a level of taking it too far.
knieveltech 14y ago
I am truly amazing by this post. What an incredible human being the OP is. If faced with a similar situation I'm quite certain I lack to moral fiber to conduct myself with that level of class. Odds are excellent I would have pasted that kids guts all over the street.
- unreal37 14y ago
  Having someone arrested is not "lack of moral fiber". It may be the opposite - the courage to bring a criminal to justice, testify against them, potentially lose his friendship... What the 17-year old did was vicious and clearly criminal.
  - jessedhillon 14y ago
    Courage, as a word, stems from cor -- one's heart and innermost feelings, and so courageousness is the resolve to express one's heart. Therefore, it is literally more courageous to confront an attacker directly and to express one's feelings honestly, than it is to run to the authorities, even when one is entitled to do so. It's more courageous to confront someone face-to-face, tell him how you were hurt by what they did, and communicate that you still care about him and want to be involved with his correction. To say that "it may be the opposite..." i.e. it may be cowardly to directly confront someone who hurt and frightened you, is just bizarre and I suspect reactionary tough-guy talk. In what world would it be cowardly to confront and attacker and show both your vulnerability and your determination to work with him, but courageous (in any sense of the word) to send the police over to his house to pick him up?
BklynJay 14y ago
It's disturbing how terrifying and malicious this suburban 17-year old kid could be.
nhashem 14y ago
For what it's worth, if you're the target of especially terrifying harassment like this, it's important to keep two things in mind: the more targeted the harassment is, the easier it is to identify the harasser, and the more likely it is that there's some sort of personal connection. If you're receiving stuff in the mail (like the lunchbox with ashes) or stuff literally just dropped on your doorstep (the dead flowers), it's extremely unlikely that someone on the internet you have absolutely zero connection with just randomly picked you to ruin your life that badly just for some lulz. I'm glad the OP was able to take the steps he needed to identify his harasser, which I'm sure was a lot more empowering than living in fear and checking his door locks every night.
- DanHulton 14y ago
  Of course, the flip side of this are all the terrible stories that keep flooding out of 4chan, where 'random' people HAVE been targetted. Granted, they've usually done SOMETHING to piss off the hivemind, usually something involving posting a picture with something that ends up being identifiable (gps co-ords, school name on something in the background, etc.). But even in those cases, though you may know where the attack is coming from, there's usually not much to help you figure out exactly who is behind it. At least in the news stories etc. that I've read, it's been a collection of bored 4chan denizens with not much else to connect them.
- jessedhillon 14y ago
  A security professional once recommended Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear" [1] to me as a source of excellent information to always have in mind. One of de Becker's insight is exactly what you say here -- that most potential attackers are motivated by a personal connection, and that animus is also what makes it possible to identify and uncover them. He also has extensive thoughts about identifying if/when the harassment will cross over into physical attacks. I would recommend anyone read it, especially if you have loved ones who have lived in fear of stalkers. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violence/dp/0440508835 http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violenc...
  - pimentel 14y ago
baddox 14y ago
> He wanted to call the authorities there and then and turn him in. But I said no. That's an impressive show of self control, but I wonder if his next victims will have preferred that you did contact the authorities. Presumably, at age 17 this guy won't be living with his parents for much longer.
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  I really hope the OP didn't just leave it with "get him counseling" and then walk away. I hope he required follow-up that the counseling was happening and progress was being made. In fact, if I was in that situation, I think I would want to be given the ability to talk to the counselor about the progress (or lack thereof) being made. Even if I knew he was going to counseling, I don't think I would be comfortable just washing my hands beyond that, for exactly the reason you point out.
  - ignignokt 14y ago
    Isn't that sort of information confidential between the counsellor and the patient? Even if it's not legally protected I don't think many counsellors would be happy telling you that sort of thing
    - lallysingh 14y ago
      You can always ask for copies of the bill.
- voldemort12 14y ago
  > That's an impressive show of self control, It would be, if this had happened. Which I sincerely doubt. I do not doubt that OP went through some real awful stuff at the behest of his troll, or that he even met or confronted his troll, but this story is just too finely crafted to be a true reflection of real life. I could be wrong, but, honestly, I doubt it.
magobarca 14y ago
I have to ask. Why was this young man given the opportunity to escape the law despite committing a hate crime. He threatened murder and rape. Would he have been afforded the privilege of a hand shake rather than hand cuffs if he was... say a member of a outgroup, say for example, an Arab?
- Karunamon 14y ago
  Because the police were never involved directly. "He" was still legally a child, for one. For two, the author was unbelievably gracious enough to not take him straight to the cops. A happy ending all around, really. Hopefully the teen idiot will have something good come of his counselling and the world will be a slightly better place.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - derleth 14y ago
    > Hopefully the teen idiot will have something good come of his counselling and the world will be a slightly better place. Sociopaths benefit from counseling in that they become better able to fool counselors. We can only hope whoever he goes to realizes this.
    - datalus 14y ago
      You trolling? It never ceases to amaze me that people who read a blog post suddenly form hard lined opinions about a real world situation. To me, it's a bit sociopath-like to be so vindictive about a situation that you know next to nothing about. What's the relationship between the poster and the kid? He most likely knows the boy's past, he knows the family, and yet it's all too easy to forget all that and condemn someone. If only there were more people in the world like the OP, and less knee jerkers.
      - derleth 14y ago
        I hope I'm wrong and that the troll isn't a sociopath.
AgathaTheWitch 14y ago
I would have prosecuted the little shit.
- adrianwaj 14y ago
  Deliberate and targeted anti-semitism, stalking, death threats that moved offline from a 17 year old who says "thanks for giving me a break dude" and parents who don't want to go to the police themselves? All Leo wants to do is write about it.. I would've either prosecuted or put his name and photo (and all the threats and screenshots he sent) on my blog for 10 years.. that could've been the choice for the parents.
  - Tichy 14y ago
    This story is all about empathy...
    - adrianwaj 14y ago
      No it's about pacifism.
tylermenezes 14y ago
I'm honestly astonished at how little Twitter seems to care about abuse and spam. I actually wrote an article about this last night (https://tyler.menez.es/articles/twitters-empathy-problem.html https://tyler.menez.es/articles/twitters-empathy-problem.htm...), when - after going through blog posts - I realized the spam problem there hadn't gotten any better since I first wrote about it in 2007!
- forensic 14y ago
  Seems like a hard problem to solve.
unreal37 14y ago
Interesting. I don't think I would have done the same, and even with time to think long and hard about it, I still would have gone after him with all my might. I don't think letting him off with just a warning is in any sense "justice" nor in the end was the smart choice. There's something psychotic about harassing someone you know for YEARS, anonymously, in such a vicious way as he did. It's just cruelty on a level akin to torturing dogs for fun. "It was kind of a game" is hardly an excuse. "I will kill you, I will rape your wife, I will do <unspeakable things> to your wife's dead body..." Sending ashes. Putting dead flowers on the door step. Causing the man to be paranoid in his own house. Causing him to cry over the safety of his family. This is beyond harassment, and lasted daily/weekly over a period of years. I almost don't believe this is real. How could a psychotic 17-year old be let off with a handshake and a look in the eye? He's going to kill someone someday. I'm stunned.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  Yeah, I think I would be hard pressed to not report this kid to the cops if only so that I never had to regret not making the police aware of him.
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  I can't imagine that, as part of the deal, updates proving that counseling is happening aren't a part of the story. I agree with you that I wouldn't let it go without having some knowledge that he is getting the help he obviously needs. I wouldn't want to ruin a 17-year-old's life, either, but I wouldn't hesitate for a moment if I felt my family was in any danger. We don't know the relationship between the OP and his friend that might mitigate the "any danger" part. On the other hand, kids' lives are ruined in the US (and possibly other countries; I don't have enough experience to know) on a regular basis because we want to have "justice" at all costs. Justice is important, but so is mercy. Mercy (NOT rolling over!) is, ultimately, what will progress society.
  - zainny 14y ago
    If a person takes such a personal, aggressive, and malicious position towards you and your family, by reporting them to the proper authorities you haven't "ruined" their life. You shouldn't feel guilty bringing the perpetrator of a serious crime to justice.
Kelliot 14y ago
Pains me to see this kinda stuff go on... Troll doesn't quite cover it in my eye, its pure criminalized harassment.
ary 14y ago
It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do. There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the OP he should have taken legal action and had the youth examined by a credible mental health professional if only as a favor to others.
- yelsgib 14y ago
  What is the difference between a "reasonable, rational" individual and an "unreasonable, irrational" individual? What is the basis of your faith in "credible mental health professionals?"
  - lwhi 14y ago
    > What is the difference between a "reasonable, rational" individual and an "unreasonable, irrational" individual? The degree to which the individual can co-exist with other members of society.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  The kid in this case needed help. Maybe he'll turn out as a bad adult, but its not too late for this behavior to be corrected so he can lead a normal life. Now, if you think the best way to do that is through the legal system, I'm not sure, especially if the legal system is more interested in punishing vs. reforming. The author did the right thing, I think.
- wamatt 14y ago
  As much as I loathe being the guy defending trolls, the level of judgement expressed in this thread is a bit troubling. Labeling this kid a 'pyschopath' might feel nice, but it's rather inaccurate. [1]. Specifically when he saw the damage he'd caused, a very human emotional response of remorse and regret kicked in. We have no reason to believe it's fake, especially given we weren't the one's there, and the author believed it to be genuine. That said, I found this to be a really touching story, and am amazed at the kindness and wisdom of the victim. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
yelsgib 14y ago
For those of you who claim that the right thing in this situation would be to turn the child over to the authorities - what exactly do you think the authorities are going to do to make this situation better? The child obviously has some darkness that he needs to work through - to work through darkness he needs the support of a loving community. I find it very sad and disturbing that some commenters (who I assume are adults) believe that the right thing to do is to hand a child like this over to the police or mental institutions. This idea that the police are some sort of magical wand that you can wave at problems to make them go away is at the center of our (our here meaning the US & Britain's) social decay (c.f. the current treatment of drug abusers, ethnic minorities, and the "mentally ill" in the United States). Assuming this story is true, what OP did was the right, human, adult thing to do - to treat the child as a human being capable of change and growth and to see to it that the community accepted him and moved him towards change. Concepts like "justice" and "psychosis" are easy to throw around and are very practical, but their use is typically the root of more harm than good.
- maskedinvader 14y ago
  well said, the story seems a little too dramatic for me to believe is possible...wow ! I mean mailing stuff...May be the right thing to do is to show the damage done which the author did, and to let the kid off with some counselling and forgiveness allowing a chance for him to change his ways and have a shot at a bright future.
- minitrollster 14y ago
  I don't think the point people are making when they say he should be handed to the authorities is that they'll fix him. The point is that he should answer for his actions. Fixing the darkness or not, the kid DID make death threats and make someone's life miserable by unacceptable and criminal means. Criminals need rehabilitation, but they also need to be taught that their behaviour is unacceptable.
  - yelsgib 14y ago
    It's unfortunate that you have such strong authoritarian beliefs. Can I convince you that your ideas that criminals (this child is 17 - he has not, by our own state's very definition - attained an age where he can be defined as a criminal or where he can knowingly enter into the social moral contract that binds adults) "need to be taught that their behavior is unacceptable" is a very modern one and - what's more - one that is supported by state propaganda? Do you actually believe that anyone who enters the prison system is "taught that their behavior is unacceptable?" Many sources indicate that the more common response to incarceration is "criminalization" - that this child has a high probability of connecting with negative forces which will push him further down the path of his darkness. I recommend you read "Discipline and Punish" by Foucault - I think it would open your ideas to the genealogy of some of the ideals underpinning your beliefs and apparent faith in the modern justice system.
clintboxe 14y ago
Here's a funnier take on confronting an internet troll. Comedian Chris Gethard talks to a commenter who really didn't like his performance in the show "Big Lake." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s10F4ulkLY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s10F4ulkLY
dean 14y ago
That's not a troll. And that's not harassment. That's a stalker. I'm shocked Twitter did nothing about this kind of repeated targeted abuse. And I'm very surprised that the police did nothing for someone who was receiving death threats at his front door.
- mike-cardwell 14y ago
  The bit about the police not being "able" to do anything struck me as a bit bizarre as well... "I got on to the authorities again but, polite and sympathetic as they were, there didn't seem much that could be done." Err... Death threat... Contact Twitter and get the IP address of the user, then contact the ISP to get the home address. Maybe the police couldn't be "bothered" to do anything, but they were certainly capable of it.
  - drats 14y ago
    This should be the top comment. Again and again we see Twitter, Facebook etc. being blamed for this type of stuff. But in truth these companies have well established processes to deal with requests from law enforcement authorities, as do ISPs. This situation is scandalous when you see how much time and effort is devoted to revenue raising through traffic and parking violations, but there is apparently no time to follow up death threats.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
nkurz 14y ago
I'd love to have an update in a few years. Do things end up better for having let him off, or does he cause even more damage? I think it's unlikely that the author was the only person threatened, and also unlikely that a "talking to" will prevent others from being victims as well. While I'd like to think that people can make a full turn around from evil to good, in this case I'd bet against it. If things are as described, the kid is not a wayward youth but a psychopath. Certainly from the child's perspective it's better not to involve the authorities. But my greater concern is for the rest of society. No, there is nothing magic the authorities can do that will help this individual, but unlike a counsellor they might be able to restrict his ability to further harm others.
freework 14y ago
Theres something about this story that just doesn't sit right with me. Why would a 17 year old go through so much trouble to harass someone just for the heck of it? The guy had to have done something to the kid. Normal people don't spend hours of their lives to harass a single person for no reason. I call bullshit.
- LordIllidan 14y ago
  The son had become engrossed with conspiracy sites - the ones that blame jews/zionists/everyone for all the ills on the planet, and was a shutin, unable to attach a human face with the victim of his trolling attempts. I admire the author for his actions, I hope the Troll will take a good lesson from it all.
- mike-cardwell 14y ago
  It's called trolling, and it's a well known and written about phenomenon. There doesn't even have to be a reason.
prawn 14y ago
Do we have to be careful not to brand this sort of behaviour as trolling? Trolling to me is often mild and more for a laugh rather than for quite malicious purposes. It's easier to ignore. Anything that constitutes targeted harassment, stalking, bullying and the like should always be framed around those stronger terms. They cannot be things that kids grow up doing for a laugh with friends. They need to be clearly framed as the sort of things that have repercussions, put you on the flipside of society, etc.
po 14y ago
I remember reading a story about a man who was knocked unconscious by a group of kids as he was riding past them on a bicycle not too long ago. That story followed a similar trajectory including the writer not pressing charges under the conditions that he would be able to meet with the attacker and ask him questions about why he did what he did. One of the things I remember about the article was the reaction from the police who said that the show of remorse from the attacker was a well-practiced show and that they had seen it many times in repeat offenders. Does anyone remember more details about this that would help find it?
FilthyFresh 14y ago
I do not believe that this is an act by an individual. Even though the author tracked it down to one attacker, there is something much bigger behind attacks of this caliber.Right now there is a movement underway, a Troll movement.It has been around for no longer than a decade, but already it has shown the signs of a serious problem to come. It's essentially a gang mentality that ropes these "kids" in to participate in trolling. In the 90's I was lucky enough to have not grown up in the circumstances that would lead me into joining a gang. A desire to feel like your a part of something combined with the desire to feel powerful is a tool for whoever is recruiting these trolls(mostly older siblings or friends cause them to want to imitate).Just as these kids,imagine your self put under the wrong(for a successful life) circumstances at that age,you may have been persuaded into trying new drugs, or gang banging. By meddling with the lives of others, one can get a feeling of true power. This feeling of power when combined with the comradeship of fellow trolls can be a very dangerous mix. Gangs recruit new members by playing on both those desires, first they are given a gun (they are now powerful, They hold the power over human life in their hands), next they are given comradeship (a feeling of belonging, they are now a part of something). At the age of 17, these kids, placed under the right(to this way of life) circumstances are soooooo susceptible to the gang mentality. The gang mentality is present everywhere you look, its just at different levels of activity. Give a kid a bat or ball, surround him with teammates, and give him something to do; Compares with giving a kid a computer, surrounding him with fellow trolls, and something to do (harassing and cyber attacking);Now lets throw in actual street gangs for a third level of comparison with the past. Give a kid a gun, surround him with fellow gang members, and something to do. Although baseball has stayed offline and in the ballpark to this day; The street gangs have moved online in the form of a 17 year old kid with a computer. This is only a preview of whats to come. Imagine second generation trolls. These kids have had access to a computer, ipad, laptop, cell phone, since they were truly children(3-12). These trolls can hack,they are tech savvy, they can find your address, access all your online resources. They now have the power over a human life. Unlike street gangs of the 90's, the internet has allowed them to be apart of something big, bigger than any street gang has ever had the opportunity to reach. Where a gang was always limited by location, Trolling is only limited by language. A troll hierarchy has formed in several different hives. Troll soldiers are dispatched in the thousands, maybe even millions, in strategically placed cyber attacks. Worse these troll soldiers, at the easily corruptible age of 17, will have the mentality of an anarchist,ego of a street banger, and posses the technical ability of a hacker. Where a banger would steal and old ladies purse, they will get into her bank account. Where a banger would shoot someone for initiation, these trolls would attack every online outlet you use, ruin your name and image. Even worse, for the most part they need not be money motivated, their parents are paying the cable bill.And since this would for the most part be completely anonymous, they wouldn't have to watch as they shoot you in the face just as a street banger has to. They wont feel the blood splash their face as your life crumbles beneath you. I can only hope measures are taken against the Trolls fast. It is not a hacker mentality they posses, but that of an anarchist and street banger.Those in power at the time it becomes apparent, will, as with every other threat to humanity, not act until it is too late.These kids do this because there is a lack of communication from the ones who raise them, they need attention, advice,something to do (baseball?). The authorities cant fix this, further separating the parents from the kids will only strengthen the bonds of the trolls. Who do you think they will go to after their parents have further distanced themselves from their kid by sending him off to juvy? Their friends who were a part of their bad way of life? The gang?
kvnn 14y ago
There is an alarming amount of laziness in the conclusion of this affair. I'm hoping that significant actions were left out of the post. Who has the kid been talking to online? What else has he been up to? Who else is he harassing? How was he going to escalate the "game"? It seems that the author wanted a peaceful resolution so badly that he manufactured one falsely.
sneak 14y ago
That's not a troll, that's just a run-of-the-mill dickhead. Trolling is a art.
blerrrgh 14y ago
17 is OLD. This is a high school kid, and maybe he's immature, but he crossed a very serious line. The line between prank phone calls, and the types of coercive intimidation tactics he employed shouldn't be glossed over. One other comment about this anecdote: I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Revealing your true identity online, on the internet can be very, VERY risky. Downright dangerous. The fact that Google+ and Facebook encourage this as a normal, casual practice is irresponsible. The internet is high-powered super-charged tachnology, which needs to be respected as such. It's not like putting your name in the phone book. VIPs who retain attourneys, hire personal assistants, and hire other staff (possibly even professional security) have adequate countermeasure to cope with online stalkers. Average individuals do not. Consider that in ye olden days, predating even dial-up, there were notorious problems with local TV stations who would hire pretty women as their meteorologists. These were professional broadcasters that had problems with public exposure. Craigslist has a firm understanding of some of the cold realities of the internet, in particular, prostitution, and they advise their users with very little whitewash. Twitter, Facebook and Google+ should do the same.
voldemort12 14y ago
Am I the only one who feels like this story is hugely, hugely embellished? It is just too picture perfect. And absolutely none of the comments herein seem to question any aspect of it whatsoever. It is straight-up revenge-porn. My bet is that certain aspects of this actually happened, but things just don't happen this smoothly in real life.
Millennium 14y ago
If you've ever seen very young puppies playing, you know that it's not as cute as it sounds. There's yelping and pain, and often even blood as the puppies bite one another mercilessly. But as the days and weeks pass, that stops; by being bitten, the puppies learn that biting hurts. It takes a little while, and is perhaps not the most pleasant of methods, but it's what their minds can process. Some people are the same way. It's a cruel thing to force a bully (or its net-cousin, the troll) to look in the mirror and see what they've really done; what they really are. It messes with a person's head in a way that those who haven't experienced it cannot understand. But many of them legitimately NEED that kind of cruelty; it's the language they speak, the stimulus they know how to sense. It's still cruel, mind you; it shouldn't be shied away from, but it shouldn't be glorified or looked forward to either. Sometimes it's not even possible, especially in the age of the Internet. But when it can be done, I'd call it preferable to bringing in the authorities. It's less wasteful, on account of not throwing up lifelong obstacles for the troll to overcome, and when properly applied it hurts worse than the law would allow our authorities to inflict anyway. Justice and vengeance, all wrapped up in a nice, neat package.
Jd 14y ago
One potentially but as of yet unmentioned aspect is the "game thing" itself. The fact that he refers to this as a "game," indicates that by means of some conspiracy theory site or other, he was more or less interacting with others in competitive harassment. Take the following potential scenario: Impressionable youth joins conspiracy site, finds lots of anti-semitic information. The youths of the forum are encourage to pick a Jew and harass them, recording both their creations (i.e. a plastic container filled with ashes), and the responses of the person they are harassing. Within the context of a game this harassment can immediately seem quite harmless. I am actually not thinking much about the person who is on the receiving end of my "prank" anymore, I am simply thinking of the optimal reaction I can get from my "innovative" creation in the harassment sector. Anyways, easy to see how something like this could get out of hand. Very out of hand in this case.
- reledi 14y ago
  My thoughts as well. It was likely too difficult or embarrassing for him to reveal his true motivations and intentions in front of his family and his victim. Leo should have dug deeper.

673 points by Liu 14y ago

Wow ... I'd like to shake your hand because I think you handled your friend's son with an amazing amount of grace. It's horrible that you had to be tormented like that, but at 17 he may have learned how to be human. In my experience, not many of us understood empathy at that age. Let me know when you're in the U.S. and perhaps I can buy you a dinner.

skeletonjelly 14y ago
Agreed. Always refreshing to see somebody putting in hard work to make this world a better place rather than taking the easier road (whatever that would have been).

ChuckMcM 14y ago

That is a pretty compelling story. I'm not sure I could let it go without a bit more narrative around the 'game thing.' It sounds too much like 'making your bones' in a street gang.

biot 14y ago
When I read that, I thought it was a reference to the movie The Game: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119174/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119174/
blauwbilgorgel 14y ago
About how he'd become engrossed in conspiracy sites. Anti-semitism is rife on conspiracy sites. I just assumed 'the game' thing was started on one such conspiracy site. Paranoia, hatred and naivety can be breeding grounds for these attacks. I view it less as a street gang game, and more of a game of 'hunt the Illuminati'. Doesn't make it any less despicable. If anything these conspiracy sites (and its posters) carry part of the blame for incitement.

mwhooker 14y ago

compelling story, but I'd like to know how he translated an ip address in to a street address.

sliverstorm 14y ago
Well, there's a few possibilities. For example, if the ip address was associated with a DN, you could do a reverse-lookup and then do a whois.
- loboman 14y ago
  Also he might know the friend's ip if the friend sent him an email.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    Knowing the IP is the easy bit. Taking that IP and finding a street address is the tricky bit. It can be done with court orders. (In England. I have no idea how Ireland does it.)
    - loboman 14y ago
      If he knows the friend ip, he knows that they both match (friend = troll).
      - DanBC 14y ago
        Ah yes, sorry. I missed that.
adrianpike 14y ago
I'm also curious about this. One option would be to lure the troll to a site & pull down the location info from his browser - I'm not sure how readily the troll would authorize that, but maybe with some clever social engineering it could be done. His father did mention he was on his mobile a ton, so it's possible he got pretty accurate data, instead of just his local ISP. (Related - I'm on Clear right now, and apparently I'm in Portland. I'm actually up near Canada.)

DanBC 14y ago

> I responded: "I'm not criminalizing a 17 year old kid and ruining his future. I really hope restorative justice works. Well done for doing something that must have been incredibly tough.

autophil 14y ago

I'm very sorry you went through that. I actually couldn't finish reading it - too unsettling. I hope you and yours are okay and this is behind you.

dkokelley 14y ago
If it helps, it has a restorative ending. I would recommend trying to get trough it knowing how it ends.
kefs 14y ago
finish it

revnja 14y ago

I hope that The Troll learned something from this experience. It is truly interesting to me what kind of mental processes drive this kind of behavior.

ANTSANTS 14y ago
Let's hope it wasn't "use a proxy."
- dkarl 14y ago
  Or "cry when you get caught."
  - hide 14y ago
    No worries, eventually he’ ll darn goof and the cyber police will be there to take care of the rest ;)

drhayes9 14y ago

My wife and I just had a baby and it has made me realize that I would burn the world to cinders in defense of my family. I have no idea how this guy reached through the fire and shook this kid's hand. Wow.

smoyer 14y ago
It's an amazing feeling isn't it! I have four kids with two now in college and I have a bit of advice. Tuck the memory of how instinctually protective you're feeling away so that you remember it when they're teenagers and have managed to inspire the opposite feelings in you.
SoftwareMaven 14y ago
It is an amazing experience to learn that there is somebody who is more important to you than you, isn't it? Whatever combination of biology, psychology and sociology that brings that about, it is something to experience!
- prawn 14y ago
  I've got a nine-week old. Loved your comment and I'm passing it on to my wife. So true.
giardini 14y ago
"Gort, Klaatu barada nikto. Klaatu barada nikto." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto

citricsquid 14y ago

that is not "trolling", that's (pretty bad) harassment. I get the feeling this is a story written to prove a point. Nobody would refer to this as "trolling".

zxcdw 14y ago
How would you define trolling and a troll? I'm sincerely asking since it is my understanding that these days harassment over the internet is often cited as trolling, as in for example "We trolled Jane by spamming her inbox full of animal abuse and violence lol". I work part-time at a school with kids ranging from 7 to 16, and of what I've tried to inquire them about the subject(I'm 22 myself, so it's quite easy to go into the subject by mentioning some local websites and memes, kids open up voluntarily very well), it's exactly the online harassing and bullying which is considered(perhaps a form of) trolling. These are exactly the imageboard kids who find it cool to "piss people off". Why? "I dont know. For the lulz". It's like a hobby for some. I personally find this stuff disgusting and directly relate it to bullying in school. Just because it happens online is not any more tolerable. Turns out many people disagree.
- sukuriant 14y ago
  Perhaps it's the intensity that's the real issue. I "troll" my friends with great frequency. Screw with them, tease them, hold clearly contrary positions just to get them riled up, but it's all in fun and stops before their feelings honestly get hurt (or if they are, I apologize). That's clearly a different level than the other sorts of trolling that I've seen. ... admittedly, people that are "from the internet" are familiar with trolling and know when they're being trolled. They can take the bait and play along, or stop it in its tracks by not feeding the troll the frustration he desires. People that aren't "from the internet", or perhaps aren't from the self-mocking parts of the internet haven't developed the thick skin (why should they?) required to deal with trolls. ... and I suppose some people just enjoy going after the people that aren't thick skinned. That's ... while fun to some, not really a civil thing to do. I suppose there's some level of initiation into the "Internet" that includes being trolled -- and trolling back, or growing some skin, etc. This wasn't one of those cases, from what I gathered (I didn't finish the article, as the very beginning it started looking clearly like harassment instead of the level of trolling I'm familiar with). I started this response with a point, but I've lost it. Either way, there is clearly a level of taking it too far.

knieveltech 14y ago

I am truly amazing by this post. What an incredible human being the OP is. If faced with a similar situation I'm quite certain I lack to moral fiber to conduct myself with that level of class. Odds are excellent I would have pasted that kids guts all over the street.

unreal37 14y ago
Having someone arrested is not "lack of moral fiber". It may be the opposite - the courage to bring a criminal to justice, testify against them, potentially lose his friendship... What the 17-year old did was vicious and clearly criminal.
- jessedhillon 14y ago
  Courage, as a word, stems from cor -- one's heart and innermost feelings, and so courageousness is the resolve to express one's heart. Therefore, it is literally more courageous to confront an attacker directly and to express one's feelings honestly, than it is to run to the authorities, even when one is entitled to do so. It's more courageous to confront someone face-to-face, tell him how you were hurt by what they did, and communicate that you still care about him and want to be involved with his correction. To say that "it may be the opposite..." i.e. it may be cowardly to directly confront someone who hurt and frightened you, is just bizarre and I suspect reactionary tough-guy talk. In what world would it be cowardly to confront and attacker and show both your vulnerability and your determination to work with him, but courageous (in any sense of the word) to send the police over to his house to pick him up?

BklynJay 14y ago

It's disturbing how terrifying and malicious this suburban 17-year old kid could be.

nhashem 14y ago

For what it's worth, if you're the target of especially terrifying harassment like this, it's important to keep two things in mind: the more targeted the harassment is, the easier it is to identify the harasser, and the more likely it is that there's some sort of personal connection. If you're receiving stuff in the mail (like the lunchbox with ashes) or stuff literally just dropped on your doorstep (the dead flowers), it's extremely unlikely that someone on the internet you have absolutely zero connection with just randomly picked you to ruin your life that badly just for some lulz. I'm glad the OP was able to take the steps he needed to identify his harasser, which I'm sure was a lot more empowering than living in fear and checking his door locks every night.

DanHulton 14y ago
Of course, the flip side of this are all the terrible stories that keep flooding out of 4chan, where 'random' people HAVE been targetted. Granted, they've usually done SOMETHING to piss off the hivemind, usually something involving posting a picture with something that ends up being identifiable (gps co-ords, school name on something in the background, etc.). But even in those cases, though you may know where the attack is coming from, there's usually not much to help you figure out exactly who is behind it. At least in the news stories etc. that I've read, it's been a collection of bored 4chan denizens with not much else to connect them.
jessedhillon 14y ago
A security professional once recommended Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear" [1] to me as a source of excellent information to always have in mind. One of de Becker's insight is exactly what you say here -- that most potential attackers are motivated by a personal connection, and that animus is also what makes it possible to identify and uncover them. He also has extensive thoughts about identifying if/when the harassment will cross over into physical attacks. I would recommend anyone read it, especially if you have loved ones who have lived in fear of stalkers. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violence/dp/0440508835 http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violenc...
- pimentel 14y ago

baddox 14y ago

> He wanted to call the authorities there and then and turn him in. But I said no. That's an impressive show of self control, but I wonder if his next victims will have preferred that you did contact the authorities. Presumably, at age 17 this guy won't be living with his parents for much longer.

SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I really hope the OP didn't just leave it with "get him counseling" and then walk away. I hope he required follow-up that the counseling was happening and progress was being made. In fact, if I was in that situation, I think I would want to be given the ability to talk to the counselor about the progress (or lack thereof) being made. Even if I knew he was going to counseling, I don't think I would be comfortable just washing my hands beyond that, for exactly the reason you point out.
- ignignokt 14y ago
  Isn't that sort of information confidential between the counsellor and the patient? Even if it's not legally protected I don't think many counsellors would be happy telling you that sort of thing
  - lallysingh 14y ago
    You can always ask for copies of the bill.
voldemort12 14y ago
> That's an impressive show of self control, It would be, if this had happened. Which I sincerely doubt. I do not doubt that OP went through some real awful stuff at the behest of his troll, or that he even met or confronted his troll, but this story is just too finely crafted to be a true reflection of real life. I could be wrong, but, honestly, I doubt it.

magobarca 14y ago

I have to ask. Why was this young man given the opportunity to escape the law despite committing a hate crime. He threatened murder and rape. Would he have been afforded the privilege of a hand shake rather than hand cuffs if he was... say a member of a outgroup, say for example, an Arab?

Karunamon 14y ago
Because the police were never involved directly. "He" was still legally a child, for one. For two, the author was unbelievably gracious enough to not take him straight to the cops. A happy ending all around, really. Hopefully the teen idiot will have something good come of his counselling and the world will be a slightly better place.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- derleth 14y ago
  > Hopefully the teen idiot will have something good come of his counselling and the world will be a slightly better place. Sociopaths benefit from counseling in that they become better able to fool counselors. We can only hope whoever he goes to realizes this.
  - datalus 14y ago
    You trolling? It never ceases to amaze me that people who read a blog post suddenly form hard lined opinions about a real world situation. To me, it's a bit sociopath-like to be so vindictive about a situation that you know next to nothing about. What's the relationship between the poster and the kid? He most likely knows the boy's past, he knows the family, and yet it's all too easy to forget all that and condemn someone. If only there were more people in the world like the OP, and less knee jerkers.
    - derleth 14y ago
      I hope I'm wrong and that the troll isn't a sociopath.

AgathaTheWitch 14y ago

I would have prosecuted the little shit.

adrianwaj 14y ago
Deliberate and targeted anti-semitism, stalking, death threats that moved offline from a 17 year old who says "thanks for giving me a break dude" and parents who don't want to go to the police themselves? All Leo wants to do is write about it.. I would've either prosecuted or put his name and photo (and all the threats and screenshots he sent) on my blog for 10 years.. that could've been the choice for the parents.
- Tichy 14y ago
  This story is all about empathy...
  - adrianwaj 14y ago
    No it's about pacifism.

tylermenezes 14y ago

I'm honestly astonished at how little Twitter seems to care about abuse and spam. I actually wrote an article about this last night (https://tyler.menez.es/articles/twitters-empathy-problem.html https://tyler.menez.es/articles/twitters-empathy-problem.htm...), when - after going through blog posts - I realized the spam problem there hadn't gotten any better since I first wrote about it in 2007!

forensic 14y ago
Seems like a hard problem to solve.

unreal37 14y ago

Interesting. I don't think I would have done the same, and even with time to think long and hard about it, I still would have gone after him with all my might. I don't think letting him off with just a warning is in any sense "justice" nor in the end was the smart choice. There's something psychotic about harassing someone you know for YEARS, anonymously, in such a vicious way as he did. It's just cruelty on a level akin to torturing dogs for fun. "It was kind of a game" is hardly an excuse. "I will kill you, I will rape your wife, I will do <unspeakable things> to your wife's dead body..." Sending ashes. Putting dead flowers on the door step. Causing the man to be paranoid in his own house. Causing him to cry over the safety of his family. This is beyond harassment, and lasted daily/weekly over a period of years. I almost don't believe this is real. How could a psychotic 17-year old be let off with a handshake and a look in the eye? He's going to kill someone someday. I'm stunned.

jlgreco 14y ago
Yeah, I think I would be hard pressed to not report this kid to the cops if only so that I never had to regret not making the police aware of him.
SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I can't imagine that, as part of the deal, updates proving that counseling is happening aren't a part of the story. I agree with you that I wouldn't let it go without having some knowledge that he is getting the help he obviously needs. I wouldn't want to ruin a 17-year-old's life, either, but I wouldn't hesitate for a moment if I felt my family was in any danger. We don't know the relationship between the OP and his friend that might mitigate the "any danger" part. On the other hand, kids' lives are ruined in the US (and possibly other countries; I don't have enough experience to know) on a regular basis because we want to have "justice" at all costs. Justice is important, but so is mercy. Mercy (NOT rolling over!) is, ultimately, what will progress society.
- zainny 14y ago
  If a person takes such a personal, aggressive, and malicious position towards you and your family, by reporting them to the proper authorities you haven't "ruined" their life. You shouldn't feel guilty bringing the perpetrator of a serious crime to justice.

Kelliot 14y ago

Pains me to see this kinda stuff go on... Troll doesn't quite cover it in my eye, its pure criminalized harassment.

ary 14y ago

It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do. There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the OP he should have taken legal action and had the youth examined by a credible mental health professional if only as a favor to others.

yelsgib 14y ago
What is the difference between a "reasonable, rational" individual and an "unreasonable, irrational" individual? What is the basis of your faith in "credible mental health professionals?"
- lwhi 14y ago
  > What is the difference between a "reasonable, rational" individual and an "unreasonable, irrational" individual? The degree to which the individual can co-exist with other members of society.
seanmcdirmid 14y ago
The kid in this case needed help. Maybe he'll turn out as a bad adult, but its not too late for this behavior to be corrected so he can lead a normal life. Now, if you think the best way to do that is through the legal system, I'm not sure, especially if the legal system is more interested in punishing vs. reforming. The author did the right thing, I think.
wamatt 14y ago
As much as I loathe being the guy defending trolls, the level of judgement expressed in this thread is a bit troubling. Labeling this kid a 'pyschopath' might feel nice, but it's rather inaccurate. [1]. Specifically when he saw the damage he'd caused, a very human emotional response of remorse and regret kicked in. We have no reason to believe it's fake, especially given we weren't the one's there, and the author believed it to be genuine. That said, I found this to be a really touching story, and am amazed at the kindness and wisdom of the victim. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

yelsgib 14y ago

For those of you who claim that the right thing in this situation would be to turn the child over to the authorities - what exactly do you think the authorities are going to do to make this situation better? The child obviously has some darkness that he needs to work through - to work through darkness he needs the support of a loving community. I find it very sad and disturbing that some commenters (who I assume are adults) believe that the right thing to do is to hand a child like this over to the police or mental institutions. This idea that the police are some sort of magical wand that you can wave at problems to make them go away is at the center of our (our here meaning the US & Britain's) social decay (c.f. the current treatment of drug abusers, ethnic minorities, and the "mentally ill" in the United States). Assuming this story is true, what OP did was the right, human, adult thing to do - to treat the child as a human being capable of change and growth and to see to it that the community accepted him and moved him towards change. Concepts like "justice" and "psychosis" are easy to throw around and are very practical, but their use is typically the root of more harm than good.

maskedinvader 14y ago
well said, the story seems a little too dramatic for me to believe is possible...wow ! I mean mailing stuff...May be the right thing to do is to show the damage done which the author did, and to let the kid off with some counselling and forgiveness allowing a chance for him to change his ways and have a shot at a bright future.
minitrollster 14y ago
I don't think the point people are making when they say he should be handed to the authorities is that they'll fix him. The point is that he should answer for his actions. Fixing the darkness or not, the kid DID make death threats and make someone's life miserable by unacceptable and criminal means. Criminals need rehabilitation, but they also need to be taught that their behaviour is unacceptable.
- yelsgib 14y ago
  It's unfortunate that you have such strong authoritarian beliefs. Can I convince you that your ideas that criminals (this child is 17 - he has not, by our own state's very definition - attained an age where he can be defined as a criminal or where he can knowingly enter into the social moral contract that binds adults) "need to be taught that their behavior is unacceptable" is a very modern one and - what's more - one that is supported by state propaganda? Do you actually believe that anyone who enters the prison system is "taught that their behavior is unacceptable?" Many sources indicate that the more common response to incarceration is "criminalization" - that this child has a high probability of connecting with negative forces which will push him further down the path of his darkness. I recommend you read "Discipline and Punish" by Foucault - I think it would open your ideas to the genealogy of some of the ideals underpinning your beliefs and apparent faith in the modern justice system.

clintboxe 14y ago

Here's a funnier take on confronting an internet troll. Comedian Chris Gethard talks to a commenter who really didn't like his performance in the show "Big Lake." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s10F4ulkLY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s10F4ulkLY

dean 14y ago

That's not a troll. And that's not harassment. That's a stalker. I'm shocked Twitter did nothing about this kind of repeated targeted abuse. And I'm very surprised that the police did nothing for someone who was receiving death threats at his front door.

mike-cardwell 14y ago
The bit about the police not being "able" to do anything struck me as a bit bizarre as well... "I got on to the authorities again but, polite and sympathetic as they were, there didn't seem much that could be done." Err... Death threat... Contact Twitter and get the IP address of the user, then contact the ISP to get the home address. Maybe the police couldn't be "bothered" to do anything, but they were certainly capable of it.
- drats 14y ago
  This should be the top comment. Again and again we see Twitter, Facebook etc. being blamed for this type of stuff. But in truth these companies have well established processes to deal with requests from law enforcement authorities, as do ISPs. This situation is scandalous when you see how much time and effort is devoted to revenue raising through traffic and parking violations, but there is apparently no time to follow up death threats.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

nkurz 14y ago

I'd love to have an update in a few years. Do things end up better for having let him off, or does he cause even more damage? I think it's unlikely that the author was the only person threatened, and also unlikely that a "talking to" will prevent others from being victims as well. While I'd like to think that people can make a full turn around from evil to good, in this case I'd bet against it. If things are as described, the kid is not a wayward youth but a psychopath. Certainly from the child's perspective it's better not to involve the authorities. But my greater concern is for the rest of society. No, there is nothing magic the authorities can do that will help this individual, but unlike a counsellor they might be able to restrict his ability to further harm others.

freework 14y ago

Theres something about this story that just doesn't sit right with me. Why would a 17 year old go through so much trouble to harass someone just for the heck of it? The guy had to have done something to the kid. Normal people don't spend hours of their lives to harass a single person for no reason. I call bullshit.

LordIllidan 14y ago
The son had become engrossed with conspiracy sites - the ones that blame jews/zionists/everyone for all the ills on the planet, and was a shutin, unable to attach a human face with the victim of his trolling attempts. I admire the author for his actions, I hope the Troll will take a good lesson from it all.
mike-cardwell 14y ago
It's called trolling, and it's a well known and written about phenomenon. There doesn't even have to be a reason.

prawn 14y ago

Do we have to be careful not to brand this sort of behaviour as trolling? Trolling to me is often mild and more for a laugh rather than for quite malicious purposes. It's easier to ignore. Anything that constitutes targeted harassment, stalking, bullying and the like should always be framed around those stronger terms. They cannot be things that kids grow up doing for a laugh with friends. They need to be clearly framed as the sort of things that have repercussions, put you on the flipside of society, etc.

po 14y ago

I remember reading a story about a man who was knocked unconscious by a group of kids as he was riding past them on a bicycle not too long ago. That story followed a similar trajectory including the writer not pressing charges under the conditions that he would be able to meet with the attacker and ask him questions about why he did what he did. One of the things I remember about the article was the reaction from the police who said that the show of remorse from the attacker was a well-practiced show and that they had seen it many times in repeat offenders. Does anyone remember more details about this that would help find it?

FilthyFresh 14y ago

I do not believe that this is an act by an individual. Even though the author tracked it down to one attacker, there is something much bigger behind attacks of this caliber.Right now there is a movement underway, a Troll movement.It has been around for no longer than a decade, but already it has shown the signs of a serious problem to come. It's essentially a gang mentality that ropes these "kids" in to participate in trolling. In the 90's I was lucky enough to have not grown up in the circumstances that would lead me into joining a gang. A desire to feel like your a part of something combined with the desire to feel powerful is a tool for whoever is recruiting these trolls(mostly older siblings or friends cause them to want to imitate).Just as these kids,imagine your self put under the wrong(for a successful life) circumstances at that age,you may have been persuaded into trying new drugs, or gang banging. By meddling with the lives of others, one can get a feeling of true power. This feeling of power when combined with the comradeship of fellow trolls can be a very dangerous mix. Gangs recruit new members by playing on both those desires, first they are given a gun (they are now powerful, They hold the power over human life in their hands), next they are given comradeship (a feeling of belonging, they are now a part of something). At the age of 17, these kids, placed under the right(to this way of life) circumstances are soooooo susceptible to the gang mentality. The gang mentality is present everywhere you look, its just at different levels of activity. Give a kid a bat or ball, surround him with teammates, and give him something to do; Compares with giving a kid a computer, surrounding him with fellow trolls, and something to do (harassing and cyber attacking);Now lets throw in actual street gangs for a third level of comparison with the past. Give a kid a gun, surround him with fellow gang members, and something to do. Although baseball has stayed offline and in the ballpark to this day; The street gangs have moved online in the form of a 17 year old kid with a computer. This is only a preview of whats to come. Imagine second generation trolls. These kids have had access to a computer, ipad, laptop, cell phone, since they were truly children(3-12). These trolls can hack,they are tech savvy, they can find your address, access all your online resources. They now have the power over a human life. Unlike street gangs of the 90's, the internet has allowed them to be apart of something big, bigger than any street gang has ever had the opportunity to reach. Where a gang was always limited by location, Trolling is only limited by language. A troll hierarchy has formed in several different hives. Troll soldiers are dispatched in the thousands, maybe even millions, in strategically placed cyber attacks. Worse these troll soldiers, at the easily corruptible age of 17, will have the mentality of an anarchist,ego of a street banger, and posses the technical ability of a hacker. Where a banger would steal and old ladies purse, they will get into her bank account. Where a banger would shoot someone for initiation, these trolls would attack every online outlet you use, ruin your name and image. Even worse, for the most part they need not be money motivated, their parents are paying the cable bill.And since this would for the most part be completely anonymous, they wouldn't have to watch as they shoot you in the face just as a street banger has to. They wont feel the blood splash their face as your life crumbles beneath you. I can only hope measures are taken against the Trolls fast. It is not a hacker mentality they posses, but that of an anarchist and street banger.Those in power at the time it becomes apparent, will, as with every other threat to humanity, not act until it is too late.These kids do this because there is a lack of communication from the ones who raise them, they need attention, advice,something to do (baseball?). The authorities cant fix this, further separating the parents from the kids will only strengthen the bonds of the trolls. Who do you think they will go to after their parents have further distanced themselves from their kid by sending him off to juvy? Their friends who were a part of their bad way of life? The gang?

kvnn 14y ago

There is an alarming amount of laziness in the conclusion of this affair. I'm hoping that significant actions were left out of the post. Who has the kid been talking to online? What else has he been up to? Who else is he harassing? How was he going to escalate the "game"? It seems that the author wanted a peaceful resolution so badly that he manufactured one falsely.

sneak 14y ago

That's not a troll, that's just a run-of-the-mill dickhead. Trolling is a art.

blerrrgh 14y ago

17 is OLD. This is a high school kid, and maybe he's immature, but he crossed a very serious line. The line between prank phone calls, and the types of coercive intimidation tactics he employed shouldn't be glossed over. One other comment about this anecdote: I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Revealing your true identity online, on the internet can be very, VERY risky. Downright dangerous. The fact that Google+ and Facebook encourage this as a normal, casual practice is irresponsible. The internet is high-powered super-charged tachnology, which needs to be respected as such. It's not like putting your name in the phone book. VIPs who retain attourneys, hire personal assistants, and hire other staff (possibly even professional security) have adequate countermeasure to cope with online stalkers. Average individuals do not. Consider that in ye olden days, predating even dial-up, there were notorious problems with local TV stations who would hire pretty women as their meteorologists. These were professional broadcasters that had problems with public exposure. Craigslist has a firm understanding of some of the cold realities of the internet, in particular, prostitution, and they advise their users with very little whitewash. Twitter, Facebook and Google+ should do the same.

voldemort12 14y ago

Am I the only one who feels like this story is hugely, hugely embellished? It is just too picture perfect. And absolutely none of the comments herein seem to question any aspect of it whatsoever. It is straight-up revenge-porn. My bet is that certain aspects of this actually happened, but things just don't happen this smoothly in real life.

Millennium 14y ago

If you've ever seen very young puppies playing, you know that it's not as cute as it sounds. There's yelping and pain, and often even blood as the puppies bite one another mercilessly. But as the days and weeks pass, that stops; by being bitten, the puppies learn that biting hurts. It takes a little while, and is perhaps not the most pleasant of methods, but it's what their minds can process. Some people are the same way. It's a cruel thing to force a bully (or its net-cousin, the troll) to look in the mirror and see what they've really done; what they really are. It messes with a person's head in a way that those who haven't experienced it cannot understand. But many of them legitimately NEED that kind of cruelty; it's the language they speak, the stimulus they know how to sense. It's still cruel, mind you; it shouldn't be shied away from, but it shouldn't be glorified or looked forward to either. Sometimes it's not even possible, especially in the age of the Internet. But when it can be done, I'd call it preferable to bringing in the authorities. It's less wasteful, on account of not throwing up lifelong obstacles for the troll to overcome, and when properly applied it hurts worse than the law would allow our authorities to inflict anyway. Justice and vengeance, all wrapped up in a nice, neat package.

Jd 14y ago

One potentially but as of yet unmentioned aspect is the "game thing" itself. The fact that he refers to this as a "game," indicates that by means of some conspiracy theory site or other, he was more or less interacting with others in competitive harassment. Take the following potential scenario: Impressionable youth joins conspiracy site, finds lots of anti-semitic information. The youths of the forum are encourage to pick a Jew and harass them, recording both their creations (i.e. a plastic container filled with ashes), and the responses of the person they are harassing. Within the context of a game this harassment can immediately seem quite harmless. I am actually not thinking much about the person who is on the receiving end of my "prank" anymore, I am simply thinking of the optimal reaction I can get from my "innovative" creation in the harassment sector. Anyways, easy to see how something like this could get out of hand. Very out of hand in this case.

reledi 14y ago
My thoughts as well. It was likely too difficult or embarrassing for him to reveal his true motivations and intentions in front of his family and his victim. Leo should have dug deeper.