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My EU Car was produced in Germany, in May 2024, with HW3. Already largely obsolete.
by gchokov 11mo ago
My EU Car was produced in Germany, in May 2024, with HW3. Already largely obsolete.
- CaptainOfCoit 11mo agoWell, you did buy a smart fridge with wheels, not sure what anyone expects when doing such purchase decision.
- davedx 11mo agoConsumers shouldn't need to do extended due diligence on the history of whether a company told the truth or not about what it's selling you over the last 15 years before making a purchase decision. There are, in fact, laws about this kind of thing
- paulcole 11mo agoBut wouldn’t you feel like an idiot if you didn’t do due diligence and were conned? I don’t particularly like saying, “well the law was supposed to protect me…” in a case where my idiotic decision was completely preventable.
- scott_w 11mo agoYou say this as though it's trivial to just see that Tesla is a scam. There's multiple decades of fawning articles and reviews of Tesla to the point where the average person can't be blamed for assuming they're a reputable company. But of course, blaming the victim is much easier because it lets the person doing the blaming pretend they're morally and intellectually superior in some way.
- friendzis 11mo ago> You say this as though it's trivial to just see that Tesla is a scam. You don't need any particularly deep due diligence to see that, in fact, not living under a rock is more than enough. > There's multiple decades of fawning articles and reviews of Tesla to the point where the average person can't be blamed for assuming they're a reputable company. There's multiple decades of articles highlighting, in various levels of detail, how exactly bad Tesla is and Teslas are. Checking for bad reviews and deciding how applicable they are to you in particular is part of rudimentary check Sorry, but knowingly and deliberately buying a Tesla vehicle is entirely on the customer and they get in some sense even more than what they had ordered. Similarly, if you buy a ${brand-you-don't-like} you have no right to complain about ${common-problem}, because that's the state vehicles leave the factory.
- scott_w 11mo ago> You don't need any particularly deep due diligence to see that, in fact, not living under a rock is more than enough. From May 2025: https://cleantechnica.com/2025/05/05/us-consumers-dont-trust-tesla-anymore-study-says/ https://cleantechnica.com/2025/05/05/us-consumers-dont-trust... OP bought their Tesla in 2024, so customer sentiment was actually favourable to Tesla at that point. In March 2024, brand loyalty was really high according to Experian: https://inspiramarketing.com/when-a-brand-becomes-its-own-worst-enemy-teslas-reputation-reckoning/ https://inspiramarketing.com/when-a-brand-becomes-its-own-wo... In 2019, customer satisfaction was also high: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-customers-say-they-would-buy-it-again-2019-11?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-customers-say-... In 2020, they had an NPS of 97: https://customergauge.com/benchmarks/companies/tesla_motors https://customergauge.com/benchmarks/companies/tesla_motors > Sorry, but knowingly and deliberately buying a Tesla vehicle is entirely on the customer and they get in some sense even more than what they had ordered. Clearly, the customers were not knowingly and deliberately buying bad cars because the evidence available to the average person told them the exact opposite thing. EDIT: Strikethrough below, it was a result of a bad search but the principle above still stands. Hell, even on Hacker News, the bad news only seems to have started appearing 3 years ago, and I know for a fact your average consumer isn't browsing tech sites to form their opinion for their next car purchase.
- friendzis 11mo ago> Major problems reported with Tesla vehicles include vehicle reliability issues like suspension failures ("whompy wheels") and sudden power loss, alongside quality control concerns such as paint defects and poor build quality. Additionally, there are safety concerns surrounding the Autopilot and Full Self-Driving systems, software glitches, and issues with customer service. Other problems include battery degradation over time, resulting in reduced range, and recurring HVAC system failures. This is what google spews out when I type in "tesla major problems". The first result is Wiki entry "Criticism of Tesla, Inc.", where first section is literally "Fraud allegations". All I had to do was look if there's negative feedback and it's not something mild what you would get replacing Telsa with e.g. Peugeot, but some really troublesome issues. If you don't agree that this is basic, rudimentary overview and instead argue that this is some deep research, well I don't believe we can agree on anything much at all. I invest more effort in picking a place to eat at than some people in buying their car. Sorry, but there's no such thing as "bought it before Elon went crazy".
- paulcole 11mo ago> You say this as though it's trivial to just see that Tesla is a scam. I asked if a person would feel dumb that they had been conned. Isn't the answer going to be yes even if that con is very sophisticated? Paying a lot of money for self-driving when self-driving literally doesn't exist isn't that sophisticated of a con! They are telling you it doesn't exist! I know it doesn't exist and am paying for the hope that it will one day exist. I mean sure make a law against this or whatever. But at the end of the day it's my money and no law can stop me from making a regrettable decision.
- scott_w 11mo ago> But of course, blaming the victim is much easier because it lets the person doing the blaming pretend they're morally and intellectually superior in some way. Thanks for proving my point.
- paulcole 11mo agoI think you accidentally quoted yourself there! You might’ve meant to quote the question I asked and then meant to answer it?
- blibble 11mo agowhy not? a car is the largest purchase most people will make (after property) people should do more due diligence on it than e.g. on a new phone purchase
- Loughla 11mo agoThere's a difference between doing research into a car and doing research into whether or not a company is lying to me.
- blibble 11mo agowhy not? I certainly looked into whether the company that built my house was prudent and known for not scamming people
- fnordsensei 11mo agoInformation, power, and insight asymmetry between an individual and a company. That’s why there are consumer protection laws in many countries; to even the scales, not to favor individuals. With no hand on the scales, asymmetry is the default.
- blibble 11mo agoI 100% agree companies shouldn't be outright allowed to scam people but if you're not at least reading the wikipedia page on a car and its manufacturer company before buying it looking for common "issues", that's kinda your fault
- JohnFen 11mo agoMaybe they shouldn't need to, but they do. Due to regulatory capture and deregulation (at least in the US), the law provides very little protection against scumbag companies.
- firecall 11mo agoThey expect what is promised. Consumer protections are a very real thing in the EU, UK, Australia and elsewhere! If you make promises about the features a product will deliver, then you are obligated to deliver those features. If not, the consumer is entitled to a refund.
- 6510 11mo agoYou could wrap it in disclaimers of experimental technology. Just describe the exact content on the tin. It seems fine to state one might get a free pony if it doesn't rain for 1000 days.
- watwut 11mo agoConsumer protections prevent such contracts. That is why companies acustomed to "defraud as much as you want, just keep it legally plausibe" hate them so much.
- friendzis 11mo ago> It seems fine to state one might get a free pony if it doesn't rain for 1000 days. IANAL, but if it was "fine" that would still fall quite firmly under "gambling"
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- piva00 11mo agoThis kind of legal loophole might be common in the USA but in the EU is much harder to weasel out of obligations from the spirit of the law with legalese. They can wrap as in many disclaimers as they want, if the law is clear that consumers had a presumption of delivery due to marketing promises which were unfulfilled they are on the hook for it. It's why many American companies constantly complain about EU regulations, they empower consumers which is "bad for business™" since fraud becomes much harder to wrap in loopholes.
- JohnFen 11mo ago
- martini333 11mo agoHow? You still have exactly what you bought. You even got new features as OTA updates for free. What other car would not be as-bought after purchace?
- bdcravens 11mo ago> What other car would not be as-bought after purchace? The other cars that also have OTA updates? (Rivian, Polestar, and more, plus quite a few that provide less-extensive OTA like Hyundai, VW, etc)
- martini333 11mo ago...what other car is not "Already largely obsolete" after purchance..?