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Lots of people, esp on HN, will say J6 was some kind of insurrection, but the BLM riots were peaceful protests. From the other perspective, what happened was a

Lots of people, esp on HN, will say J6 was some kind of insurrection, but the BLM riots were peaceful protests. From the other perspective, what happened was a bunch of disgruntled republicans saw the riots that summer, among many other things, and rather than burn down Minneapolis, they took their grievances to the one place that actually could make a difference - the politicians in DC. Instead they were led thru the halls of the Capitol (by the police!) and the resulting footage used to frame the whole debacle as an insurrection. Certainly they were some angry protesters, but the premise that they intended to overthrow the govt by stopping the certification ceremony doesn’t even make sense, since nobody would have recognized it.

actionfromafar 11mo ago
That one of the J6 insurrections was shot dead was just for shits and giggles, of course.
- pdt409231 11mo ago
  Bear in mind these people are very much pro-gun and believe the 2A is there to protect against the govt. If they had intended to violently overthrow the govt, it would have been very apparent. Yet not a single bullet was fired from the protestors. As you pointed out, the only ones doing the shooting was from the police towards the pro-trump people. That lady was unarmed, and was shot while climbing thru a window. (Considering this [1] was the standard for 'peaceful protests' at the time.) Hardly qualifies as self defense, and had this been any other situation the policeman would be stripped of his badge and jailed. But of course, Biden's DOJ declined to prosecute. [1] https://www.reuters.com/resizer/v2/SNVVJFX2IVP2NLXEUPMJJMH2SU.jpg?auth=08065fdc31451b53558c3c316522d48a4978033faa884edf5d34e29a92806877&width=1920&quality=80 https://www.reuters.com/resizer/v2/SNVVJFX2IVP2NLXEUPMJJMH2S...
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - throwawayq3423 11mo ago
    Arguing that it was a poor insurrection attempt does not negate what it was. Arguing that it could have been worse doesn't change the fact that five people died. The unarmed lady was shot climbing through a window you didn't say what window it was the window dividing a violent mob from congress people sheltering in place. And making excuses for political violence guarantees that there will be more in the future. It should never be tolerated.
    - pfannkuchen 11mo ago
      There aren’t some kind of magic levers inside of the building. To perform an insurrection you need military support. Do you think all of the people involved were just so dumb that they thought they could take over by simply being inside the building? The reality candidate where they intended to delay the proceedings by protesting on site makes massively more sense. Certainly one can disagree with the method there and say it wasn’t appropriate, but there is a lot of hysteria over it and I don’t really get why people are sucked in by it.
      - throwawayq3423 11mo ago
        The plan was, according to the special counsel who had researched it, to buy time for the Eastman memo's plan of sending fake electors to create a constitutional crisis, whereas then the House needs to vote on who is president. The attack on the Capitol wasn't meant to overthrow the government itself. It was meant to stop the certification, which it did, so that the rest of the plan could take place. Under no circumstances take my word for it all of this is freely available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos
        pfannkuchen 11mo ago
        Okay, that isn’t an insurrection or an attack though. It’s some attempt at a legal loophole via targeted protest, right? Insurrectionists typically don’t rely on legal mechanisms to achieve their goals.
  - hyperman1 11mo ago
    Let me tell you about Belgium in 1830. It got attached to the Netherlands, and their king would not listen to the locals. Things got completely out of hand until we got huge protests. All the while, the idea at the Belgian side was things would calm down once their king would stop being so bloody minded and make some concessions. Well, the Dutch king didn't, the revolution succeeded, and we more or less accidentally liberated ourselves. France couldn't invade yet, and there was a general air of: whoops,we created a country, now what? Belgium is a country to this day, for no real reason. You can start an armed revolt, but you have no idea what's going to happen afterwards.
throwawayq3423 11mo ago
> J6 was some kind of insurrection, but the BLM riots were peaceful protests I'm not a fan of shameless whataboutisms, but this one is particularly bad. The attempted insurrection on January 6th had nothing to do with Black Lives Matter riots (Funny, you can never say those words. It's always an abbreviation). It was a premeditated attack on the Capitol at the exact time and place the new president was being certified. It is the most cut and dry example of an attempted coup this country has seen in decades, and it was organized and executed by the sitting, and current President. There's no reason for you to try to remake history. Your guy got back into power and made all of his legal problems disappear. He has not avoided prison because he was somehow not guilty. He avoided prison by overcoming the legal system.
- pdt409231 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - throwawayq3423 11mo ago
    > Black Lives Matter riots (Funny, you can never say those words. It's always an abbreviation). > the BLM comparison Hey look, you did it again. > provide context for what the country was going thru at the time No, it's a shameless whataboutism trying to justify your side's riot with a clear political goal with the other side's riots that were more a spontaneous reaction to a horrific crime. Both were riots but the circumstances and purpose of each could not be further apart. > and J6 was partly a counter protest. I know. You need that to be true. But it's not. > he won many of those cases on appeal No, he didn't. He lost every single major court case (E. Jean Carroll Defamation Case, civil fraud case, Georgia Election Interference Case, Falsified Business Records), except for one appeal that kept him on the ballot in Maine despite his coup attempt. https://news.syr.edu/2024/09/10/donald-trump-has-survived-the-legal-cases-that-threatened-his-campaign/ https://news.syr.edu/2024/09/10/donald-trump-has-survived-th... > won the election after which his opponents closed those cases Yes like I said. > He avoided prison by overcoming the legal system. I think we're done here. You're just really interested in remaking reality so that your worldview still makes sense. Political violence, once it starts, is almost impossible to stop. So when I see people excuse it, I get especially angry.
exasperaited 11mo ago
The riot wasn’t the attempt: it was the threat of violence that underscored the attempt, which was to happen in the chamber when Mike Pence chickened out (ask Chuck Grassley). Only for once he didn’t chicken out. Trump’s obvious, incandescent anger at Pence not doing his bidding makes it clear what that whole “protest” (along with Trump’s own plan to join it) was all about. Any other interpretation is really a ludicrous, bad faith reframing of quite commonplace behaviour in attempted overthrows.
reddozen 11mo ago
> Instead they were led thru the halls of the Capitol (by the police!) ... but the premise that they intended to overthrow the govt You could have just said you didn't read the John Eastman memo and left it there. Or any of the Jack Smith findings. There was a coordinated top-down plan to violate the Electoral Count Act, its not even hidden. Just say you have no clue what you're talking about next time
- throwawayq3423 11mo ago
  His account was created four days ago and he's exclusively posting January 6th denialism. Neither of us should have taken the time to feed the troll.
- pdt409231 11mo ago
  > You could have just said you didn't read the John Eastman memo Show me where exactly in the Eastman memo, the so called "coup plot", it calls for a group of protesters to go into the Capitol? Spoiler: It doesn't. So it's actually you who hasn't read the memos. If anything, it shows Trump sought to remain president by legal means, a gray area at worst, but nothing to do with the "violent insurrection" claimed. > Jack Smith findings You mean the cases that were thrown out by the courts? And another that he closed himself? In other words, they had 4 years and found nothing. You are innocent until proven guilty, and ultimately he proved nothing. Just say you have no clue what you're talking about next time.
  - throwawayq3423 11mo ago
    > Show me where exactly in the Eastman memo, the so called "coup plot", it calls for a group of protesters to go into the Capitol? Really cynical stuff. The Eastman memo was the blueprint on how to actually stop Biden's certification. That was the paperwork, the legal attack. January 6th was the kinetic attack. Just because both actions were not detailed in the same piece of paper does not mean they weren't both part of a clearly coordinated action (of which the special counsel agreed). https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf > You mean the cases that were thrown out by the courts? Wrong again. His findings were not thrown out. He ended the case himself because he knew Trump would shut him down anyway once back in office. Look, I get it. This is a narrative that is very important to you. You can't believe that your side are the violent ones or your president is the lawless one. So much of this is a waste of time. Just know that this is your narrative and it has no connection to reality.

actionfromafar 11mo ago

That one of the J6 insurrections was shot dead was just for shits and giggles, of course.

pdt409231 11mo ago
Bear in mind these people are very much pro-gun and believe the 2A is there to protect against the govt. If they had intended to violently overthrow the govt, it would have been very apparent. Yet not a single bullet was fired from the protestors. As you pointed out, the only ones doing the shooting was from the police towards the pro-trump people. That lady was unarmed, and was shot while climbing thru a window. (Considering this [1] was the standard for 'peaceful protests' at the time.) Hardly qualifies as self defense, and had this been any other situation the policeman would be stripped of his badge and jailed. But of course, Biden's DOJ declined to prosecute. [1] https://www.reuters.com/resizer/v2/SNVVJFX2IVP2NLXEUPMJJMH2SU.jpg?auth=08065fdc31451b53558c3c316522d48a4978033faa884edf5d34e29a92806877&width=1920&quality=80 https://www.reuters.com/resizer/v2/SNVVJFX2IVP2NLXEUPMJJMH2S...
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- throwawayq3423 11mo ago
  Arguing that it was a poor insurrection attempt does not negate what it was. Arguing that it could have been worse doesn't change the fact that five people died. The unarmed lady was shot climbing through a window you didn't say what window it was the window dividing a violent mob from congress people sheltering in place. And making excuses for political violence guarantees that there will be more in the future. It should never be tolerated.
  - pfannkuchen 11mo ago
    There aren’t some kind of magic levers inside of the building. To perform an insurrection you need military support. Do you think all of the people involved were just so dumb that they thought they could take over by simply being inside the building? The reality candidate where they intended to delay the proceedings by protesting on site makes massively more sense. Certainly one can disagree with the method there and say it wasn’t appropriate, but there is a lot of hysteria over it and I don’t really get why people are sucked in by it.
    - throwawayq3423 11mo ago
      The plan was, according to the special counsel who had researched it, to buy time for the Eastman memo's plan of sending fake electors to create a constitutional crisis, whereas then the House needs to vote on who is president. The attack on the Capitol wasn't meant to overthrow the government itself. It was meant to stop the certification, which it did, so that the rest of the plan could take place. Under no circumstances take my word for it all of this is freely available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos
      - pfannkuchen 11mo ago
        Okay, that isn’t an insurrection or an attack though. It’s some attempt at a legal loophole via targeted protest, right? Insurrectionists typically don’t rely on legal mechanisms to achieve their goals.
- hyperman1 11mo ago
  Let me tell you about Belgium in 1830. It got attached to the Netherlands, and their king would not listen to the locals. Things got completely out of hand until we got huge protests. All the while, the idea at the Belgian side was things would calm down once their king would stop being so bloody minded and make some concessions. Well, the Dutch king didn't, the revolution succeeded, and we more or less accidentally liberated ourselves. France couldn't invade yet, and there was a general air of: whoops,we created a country, now what? Belgium is a country to this day, for no real reason. You can start an armed revolt, but you have no idea what's going to happen afterwards.

throwawayq3423 11mo ago

> J6 was some kind of insurrection, but the BLM riots were peaceful protests I'm not a fan of shameless whataboutisms, but this one is particularly bad. The attempted insurrection on January 6th had nothing to do with Black Lives Matter riots (Funny, you can never say those words. It's always an abbreviation). It was a premeditated attack on the Capitol at the exact time and place the new president was being certified. It is the most cut and dry example of an attempted coup this country has seen in decades, and it was organized and executed by the sitting, and current President. There's no reason for you to try to remake history. Your guy got back into power and made all of his legal problems disappear. He has not avoided prison because he was somehow not guilty. He avoided prison by overcoming the legal system.

pdt409231 11mo ago
[flagged]
- throwawayq3423 11mo ago
  > Black Lives Matter riots (Funny, you can never say those words. It's always an abbreviation). > the BLM comparison Hey look, you did it again. > provide context for what the country was going thru at the time No, it's a shameless whataboutism trying to justify your side's riot with a clear political goal with the other side's riots that were more a spontaneous reaction to a horrific crime. Both were riots but the circumstances and purpose of each could not be further apart. > and J6 was partly a counter protest. I know. You need that to be true. But it's not. > he won many of those cases on appeal No, he didn't. He lost every single major court case (E. Jean Carroll Defamation Case, civil fraud case, Georgia Election Interference Case, Falsified Business Records), except for one appeal that kept him on the ballot in Maine despite his coup attempt. https://news.syr.edu/2024/09/10/donald-trump-has-survived-the-legal-cases-that-threatened-his-campaign/ https://news.syr.edu/2024/09/10/donald-trump-has-survived-th... > won the election after which his opponents closed those cases Yes like I said. > He avoided prison by overcoming the legal system. I think we're done here. You're just really interested in remaking reality so that your worldview still makes sense. Political violence, once it starts, is almost impossible to stop. So when I see people excuse it, I get especially angry.

exasperaited 11mo ago

The riot wasn’t the attempt: it was the threat of violence that underscored the attempt, which was to happen in the chamber when Mike Pence chickened out (ask Chuck Grassley). Only for once he didn’t chicken out. Trump’s obvious, incandescent anger at Pence not doing his bidding makes it clear what that whole “protest” (along with Trump’s own plan to join it) was all about. Any other interpretation is really a ludicrous, bad faith reframing of quite commonplace behaviour in attempted overthrows.

reddozen 11mo ago

> Instead they were led thru the halls of the Capitol (by the police!) ... but the premise that they intended to overthrow the govt You could have just said you didn't read the John Eastman memo and left it there. Or any of the Jack Smith findings. There was a coordinated top-down plan to violate the Electoral Count Act, its not even hidden. Just say you have no clue what you're talking about next time

throwawayq3423 11mo ago
His account was created four days ago and he's exclusively posting January 6th denialism. Neither of us should have taken the time to feed the troll.
pdt409231 11mo ago
> You could have just said you didn't read the John Eastman memo Show me where exactly in the Eastman memo, the so called "coup plot", it calls for a group of protesters to go into the Capitol? Spoiler: It doesn't. So it's actually you who hasn't read the memos. If anything, it shows Trump sought to remain president by legal means, a gray area at worst, but nothing to do with the "violent insurrection" claimed. > Jack Smith findings You mean the cases that were thrown out by the courts? And another that he closed himself? In other words, they had 4 years and found nothing. You are innocent until proven guilty, and ultimately he proved nothing. Just say you have no clue what you're talking about next time.
- throwawayq3423 11mo ago
  > Show me where exactly in the Eastman memo, the so called "coup plot", it calls for a group of protesters to go into the Capitol? Really cynical stuff. The Eastman memo was the blueprint on how to actually stop Biden's certification. That was the paperwork, the legal attack. January 6th was the kinetic attack. Just because both actions were not detailed in the same piece of paper does not mean they weren't both part of a clearly coordinated action (of which the special counsel agreed). https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf > You mean the cases that were thrown out by the courts? Wrong again. His findings were not thrown out. He ended the case himself because he knew Trump would shut him down anyway once back in office. Look, I get it. This is a narrative that is very important to you. You can't believe that your side are the violent ones or your president is the lawless one. So much of this is a waste of time. Just know that this is your narrative and it has no connection to reality.