9 ms·

Can we blame the Apple employees who apparently never tested their new OS release with any Electron-based application?

fragmede 11mo ago
the reason for having a large public beta process would be to get broader testing that definitely should have found this
rollcat 11mo ago
How else do you get the message across? Do not use the private APIs. Electron is most likely using a whole ton more. Apple is sending a message. "Fix your crap or expect more."
- freetanga 11mo ago
  ... and in the process we will deteriorate the performance of millions of users and hurt our brand as a top class experience company? Don't really care who is to blame, but they should have identified this, and either warn developers, or warn users. Or provide a tool for identifying guilty apps in your machine, and let users decide how to proceed.
  - m-s-y 11mo ago
    And they did both, so…?
  - rollcat 11mo ago
    > [...] they should have identified this, and either warn developers, or warn users. Like I said, *this* is their warning.
- biohazard2 11mo ago
  I can think of multiple ways to pass the message to Electron developers: - Open a GitHub issue explaining those private APIs shouldn't be used. - Even better, open a PR fixing their use. - Make those API calls a no-op if they come from an Electron app. - Fix those API calls not to grind the OS to a halt for a seemingly simple visual effect. - Create a public API allowing the same visual effect on a tested and documented API. Choosing to (apparently violently) downgrade the user experience of all Electron app users, without a possibility to update at the launch day, if a deliberate decision and not an overlooked bug, is a rather shitty and user-hostile move, don't you think?
  - ricw 11mo ago
    The beta has been accessible to the public including the electron devs for 2+ months.
    - neoromantique 11mo ago
      How nice of Apple to take a huge UX/PR/User Satisfaction hit just to send a message.
      - mocenigo 11mo ago
        But I also blame users for using crappy electron apps ;-)
      - thewebguyd 11mo ago
        Apple is consistent in their warnings to not use private APIs, and especially don't override them for custom implementations which is what Electron does here. The _cornerMask override was a hack that shouldn't ever have existed in the first place, and it's not the only use of private APIs in the electron code base. Apple is very clear about how they want you to make software for their OSes. It's 100% on electron that they choose to do it this way regardless. I'd go as far as to say Electron itself is a hack that shouldn't exist, but sadly everyone has decided it's the only way they are going to make desktop software now.
        sunshowers 11mo ago
        This mindset is not conducive to loving your customers.
    - derefr 11mo ago
      To be clear, Electron themselves fixed the bug quite quickly; but many Electron apps haven't pushed a version that vendors in the fixed version of the Electron runtime. (And shit like this is exactly why runtimes like the JVM or the .NET CLR are designed to install separately from any particular software that uses them. Each of their minor [client-facing-ABI compatible] versions can then be independently updated to their latest OS-facing-bugfix version without waiting for the software itself to ship that update.)
- nicoburns 11mo ago
  > How else do you get the message across? Do not use the private APIs. The most effective way would be for Apple to actually seek feedback on requirements and then actually implement public APIs for functionality that people need.
  - strawhatguy 11mo ago
    That's confusing "consensus building" with "effective". Killing a private api is pretty effective. And consensus building doesn't always build the best software.
    - tycho-newman 11mo ago
      I think the consensus sought here is narrow enough.
zer0zzz 11mo ago
I’m glad they broke it. People that use private APIs in their apps must suffer.

the reason for having a large public beta process would be to get broader testing that definitely should have found this

rollcat 11mo ago

How else do you get the message across? Do not use the private APIs. Electron is most likely using a whole ton more. Apple is sending a message. "Fix your crap or expect more."

freetanga 11mo ago
... and in the process we will deteriorate the performance of millions of users and hurt our brand as a top class experience company? Don't really care who is to blame, but they should have identified this, and either warn developers, or warn users. Or provide a tool for identifying guilty apps in your machine, and let users decide how to proceed.
- m-s-y 11mo ago
  And they did both, so…?
- rollcat 11mo ago
  > [...] they should have identified this, and either warn developers, or warn users. Like I said, *this* is their warning.
biohazard2 11mo ago
I can think of multiple ways to pass the message to Electron developers: - Open a GitHub issue explaining those private APIs shouldn't be used. - Even better, open a PR fixing their use. - Make those API calls a no-op if they come from an Electron app. - Fix those API calls not to grind the OS to a halt for a seemingly simple visual effect. - Create a public API allowing the same visual effect on a tested and documented API. Choosing to (apparently violently) downgrade the user experience of all Electron app users, without a possibility to update at the launch day, if a deliberate decision and not an overlooked bug, is a rather shitty and user-hostile move, don't you think?
- ricw 11mo ago
  The beta has been accessible to the public including the electron devs for 2+ months.
  - neoromantique 11mo ago
    How nice of Apple to take a huge UX/PR/User Satisfaction hit just to send a message.
    - mocenigo 11mo ago
      But I also blame users for using crappy electron apps ;-)
    - thewebguyd 11mo ago
      Apple is consistent in their warnings to not use private APIs, and especially don't override them for custom implementations which is what Electron does here. The _cornerMask override was a hack that shouldn't ever have existed in the first place, and it's not the only use of private APIs in the electron code base. Apple is very clear about how they want you to make software for their OSes. It's 100% on electron that they choose to do it this way regardless. I'd go as far as to say Electron itself is a hack that shouldn't exist, but sadly everyone has decided it's the only way they are going to make desktop software now.
      - sunshowers 11mo ago
        This mindset is not conducive to loving your customers.
  - derefr 11mo ago
    To be clear, Electron themselves fixed the bug quite quickly; but many Electron apps haven't pushed a version that vendors in the fixed version of the Electron runtime. (And shit like this is exactly why runtimes like the JVM or the .NET CLR are designed to install separately from any particular software that uses them. Each of their minor [client-facing-ABI compatible] versions can then be independently updated to their latest OS-facing-bugfix version without waiting for the software itself to ship that update.)
nicoburns 11mo ago
> How else do you get the message across? Do not use the private APIs. The most effective way would be for Apple to actually seek feedback on requirements and then actually implement public APIs for functionality that people need.
- strawhatguy 11mo ago
  That's confusing "consensus building" with "effective". Killing a private api is pretty effective. And consensus building doesn't always build the best software.
  - tycho-newman 11mo ago
    I think the consensus sought here is narrow enough.

zer0zzz 11mo ago

I’m glad they broke it. People that use private APIs in their apps must suffer.