6 ms·

Otherwise agree, but >And in most western countries a "school shooting" is nothing a person should even have to think or plan about, and schools don't ever nee

Otherwise agree, but >And in most western countries a "school shooting" is nothing a person should even have to think or plan about, and schools don't ever need metal detectors, or to have to plan around such things. School shootings are still very much a thing where I live (finland), last one being just last year. A country with no guns and supposed to be one of the happiest in the world still experiences them

showsover 11mo ago
The one before that was in 2008, so a good 16 years between the two. I.e. not something people ever have to think about.
- jojobas 11mo ago
  All "active shootings" (mostly not school shootings) in the US kill only about twice as many people per year as lightning strikes. Pretty sure not many people think about those.
  - pjc50 11mo ago
    It's wild that mass murder is just treated like weather over there. Occasional rain of lead.
  - physicsguy 11mo ago
    There's not really anything that can be done about lightning strikes.
    - ben_w 11mo ago
      There is, it's just that we've been doing it for so long that it's gone from being a decorative motif to a boring and ugly background feature of the architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod The metal shell of most vehicles also protect the occupants from lightning strikes.
      - physicsguy 11mo ago
        Sure but most people end up getting killed when walking/hiking across golf courses and fields and things in storms.
      - coldtea 11mo ago
        Nothing to be done about the lighting strikes that kill people - exposed, in nature, doing stupid shit during storms. Not about those in cities averted by lighting rods.
      - quickthrowman 11mo ago
        A lightning protection system only protects the building and the equipment attached to it. I suppose you could make an argument that it protects occupants from fires caused by lightning strikes, but it’s there to protect the building and equipment first and foremost. Fun fact: lightning rods are called air terminals.
  - coldtea 11mo ago
    Fewer victims than earthquakes too. No sane society would be comforted by the fact an active mass murdering act is "just twice as bad" as some natural phenomenon.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - jojobas 11mo ago
      Comforted? No. Not allowing to be duped into anxiety and kneejerks - hopefully yes. There's always a rental truck or a ton of fertilizer for the Cains of today. Compared to the rate of defensive gun use appears to be worthwhile.
      - pjc50 11mo ago
        "Rate of defensive gun use" is also a social red flag, whether that includes actually firing the weapon or not.
ifwinterco 11mo ago
I see this narrative a lot from Americans who often hold the EU/Europe (also often conflated when they're not the same thing) as some kind of utopia when it comes to stuff like that. In reality, while it is nowhere near as bad as in the US, but there are school shootings and similar issues on a semi regular basis across Europe. Guns are still guns and humans are still humans unfortunately
- sofixa 11mo ago
  > there are school shootings and similar issues on a semi regular basis across Europe Once a decade at most in most countries. Usually less than that. Compared to what in the US, once a month? Yes, guns are still guns and humans are still humans, but it's not nearly comparable.
  - ta1243 11mo ago
    You need to compare the whole of Europe (EU, EEA, whatever) to be roughly comparrable to "the US" Finland is about the same size of say Minnesota, and Minnesota hasn't had a major school shooting since August
    - ifwinterco 11mo ago
      Exactly, across the whole of Europe it's more than once a decade. Definitely not as bad as the US though, I acknowledge that, but people tend to paint it in black and white terms when the reality is messier
      - close04 11mo ago
        If this map [0] is accurate, in the past ~60 years Europe had 166 school shootings while the US had 2980. That's 18x more shootings in the US compared to Europe. Shootings per million people 0.22 in Europe vs. 8.68 for the US, 40x difference. Deaths, US has 1111 and Europe 662, more than half of which happened in what's more accurately described as an organized terrorist attack rather than a school shooting (the Beslan school siege [1]). Your comment is definitely trying to play down the reality in one giant whataboutism effort. [0] https://brilliantmaps.com/school-shooting-maps/ https://brilliantmaps.com/school-shooting-maps/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege
Adrox 11mo ago
"A country with no gun". Finland is in top 10 guns per capita in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...
- wasabi991011 11mo ago
  Not to mention, number 2 in firearms per household (different stat because it is independent of the size of a household's arsenal). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent_of_households_with_guns_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent_of_households_with_gun...
lz400 11mo ago
You guys had a shooting last year, but school shootings in the US average to ~1 per day
- cudgy 11mo ago
  Finland be a wee bit smaller than the US and 1 per day in US is a huge exaggeration. 13 total in US in 2024 … you were only off by 1,300% though. Also, Finland has the population of 1/2 of Los Angeles. Wow
  - lz400 11mo ago
    >School shootings in 2024 dipped slightly from the year before, but the 330 school shootings recorded last year still mark the second-highest number since 1966 https://www.k12dive.com/news/school-shootings-2024-near-record-high-2025-predictions/736590/ https://www.k12dive.com/news/school-shootings-2024-near-reco...
    - cudgy 11mo ago
      Believe this article is quoting the total number of students shot not the total number of incidents as the numbers are much higher than any other statistics that I’ve seen from more reputable sites.
      - lz400 11mo ago
        That's not correct. It counts the total number of school shootings. Some of those shootings had no victims. The total of students shot is also provided with some more elaboration with charts here. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-17/us-school-shootings-2024-in-numbers/104734714 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-17/us-school-shootings-2... As you can see your number of 13 makes no sense, there were 200-300 students shot (!)
- pkroll 11mo ago
  Mass shootings in the US, are a little over 1 a day. School shootings are a subset, and as cudgy says, so far 13 this year.
coldtea 11mo ago
Hardly "no guns" though: "In Finland, approximately 12% of the population owns firearms, with around 650,000 people holding at least one permit for about 1.5 million registered firearms".
Mashimo 11mo ago
When I visited my friend in Finland, we got to an outdoor range to shoot with AK-47 clones (in 5.56 and something bigger) and shotguns with slugs. No instructor need. Was enough that he had a license. Fun times. Next day we drove with a tank through a forest. Compared to other EU countries Finland is pretty easy going when it comes to guns.
Razengan 11mo ago
> A country with no guns and supposed to be one of the happiest in the world still experiences them Do you know the difference between 1% and 99%? Once every 10 years vs. once every year? A desert with a single tree vs. a forest with a dead tree, a lake on a continent vs. an island in the ocean.. are those the same things to you?

showsover 11mo ago

The one before that was in 2008, so a good 16 years between the two. I.e. not something people ever have to think about.

jojobas 11mo ago
All "active shootings" (mostly not school shootings) in the US kill only about twice as many people per year as lightning strikes. Pretty sure not many people think about those.
- pjc50 11mo ago
  It's wild that mass murder is just treated like weather over there. Occasional rain of lead.
- physicsguy 11mo ago
  There's not really anything that can be done about lightning strikes.
  - ben_w 11mo ago
    There is, it's just that we've been doing it for so long that it's gone from being a decorative motif to a boring and ugly background feature of the architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod The metal shell of most vehicles also protect the occupants from lightning strikes.
    - physicsguy 11mo ago
      Sure but most people end up getting killed when walking/hiking across golf courses and fields and things in storms.
    - coldtea 11mo ago
      Nothing to be done about the lighting strikes that kill people - exposed, in nature, doing stupid shit during storms. Not about those in cities averted by lighting rods.
    - quickthrowman 11mo ago
      A lightning protection system only protects the building and the equipment attached to it. I suppose you could make an argument that it protects occupants from fires caused by lightning strikes, but it’s there to protect the building and equipment first and foremost. Fun fact: lightning rods are called air terminals.
- coldtea 11mo ago
  Fewer victims than earthquakes too. No sane society would be comforted by the fact an active mass murdering act is "just twice as bad" as some natural phenomenon.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - jojobas 11mo ago
    Comforted? No. Not allowing to be duped into anxiety and kneejerks - hopefully yes. There's always a rental truck or a ton of fertilizer for the Cains of today. Compared to the rate of defensive gun use appears to be worthwhile.
    - pjc50 11mo ago
      "Rate of defensive gun use" is also a social red flag, whether that includes actually firing the weapon or not.

ifwinterco 11mo ago

I see this narrative a lot from Americans who often hold the EU/Europe (also often conflated when they're not the same thing) as some kind of utopia when it comes to stuff like that. In reality, while it is nowhere near as bad as in the US, but there are school shootings and similar issues on a semi regular basis across Europe. Guns are still guns and humans are still humans unfortunately

sofixa 11mo ago
> there are school shootings and similar issues on a semi regular basis across Europe Once a decade at most in most countries. Usually less than that. Compared to what in the US, once a month? Yes, guns are still guns and humans are still humans, but it's not nearly comparable.
- ta1243 11mo ago
  You need to compare the whole of Europe (EU, EEA, whatever) to be roughly comparrable to "the US" Finland is about the same size of say Minnesota, and Minnesota hasn't had a major school shooting since August
  - ifwinterco 11mo ago
    Exactly, across the whole of Europe it's more than once a decade. Definitely not as bad as the US though, I acknowledge that, but people tend to paint it in black and white terms when the reality is messier
    - close04 11mo ago
      If this map [0] is accurate, in the past ~60 years Europe had 166 school shootings while the US had 2980. That's 18x more shootings in the US compared to Europe. Shootings per million people 0.22 in Europe vs. 8.68 for the US, 40x difference. Deaths, US has 1111 and Europe 662, more than half of which happened in what's more accurately described as an organized terrorist attack rather than a school shooting (the Beslan school siege [1]). Your comment is definitely trying to play down the reality in one giant whataboutism effort. [0] https://brilliantmaps.com/school-shooting-maps/ https://brilliantmaps.com/school-shooting-maps/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege

Adrox 11mo ago

"A country with no gun". Finland is in top 10 guns per capita in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

wasabi991011 11mo ago
Not to mention, number 2 in firearms per household (different stat because it is independent of the size of a household's arsenal). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent_of_households_with_guns_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent_of_households_with_gun...

lz400 11mo ago

You guys had a shooting last year, but school shootings in the US average to ~1 per day

cudgy 11mo ago
Finland be a wee bit smaller than the US and 1 per day in US is a huge exaggeration. 13 total in US in 2024 … you were only off by 1,300% though. Also, Finland has the population of 1/2 of Los Angeles. Wow
- lz400 11mo ago
  >School shootings in 2024 dipped slightly from the year before, but the 330 school shootings recorded last year still mark the second-highest number since 1966 https://www.k12dive.com/news/school-shootings-2024-near-record-high-2025-predictions/736590/ https://www.k12dive.com/news/school-shootings-2024-near-reco...
  - cudgy 11mo ago
    Believe this article is quoting the total number of students shot not the total number of incidents as the numbers are much higher than any other statistics that I’ve seen from more reputable sites.
    - lz400 11mo ago
      That's not correct. It counts the total number of school shootings. Some of those shootings had no victims. The total of students shot is also provided with some more elaboration with charts here. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-17/us-school-shootings-2024-in-numbers/104734714 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-17/us-school-shootings-2... As you can see your number of 13 makes no sense, there were 200-300 students shot (!)
pkroll 11mo ago
Mass shootings in the US, are a little over 1 a day. School shootings are a subset, and as cudgy says, so far 13 this year.

coldtea 11mo ago

Hardly "no guns" though: "In Finland, approximately 12% of the population owns firearms, with around 650,000 people holding at least one permit for about 1.5 million registered firearms".

Mashimo 11mo ago

When I visited my friend in Finland, we got to an outdoor range to shoot with AK-47 clones (in 5.56 and something bigger) and shotguns with slugs. No instructor need. Was enough that he had a license. Fun times. Next day we drove with a tank through a forest. Compared to other EU countries Finland is pretty easy going when it comes to guns.

Razengan 11mo ago

> A country with no guns and supposed to be one of the happiest in the world still experiences them Do you know the difference between 1% and 99%? Once every 10 years vs. once every year? A desert with a single tree vs. a forest with a dead tree, a lake on a continent vs. an island in the ocean.. are those the same things to you?