5 ms·

I've seen a few posters ask already, so I figured I'd answer what the PS2 analog button's function was. The button switches between two modes of the analog joy

by aquova 11mo ago

I've seen a few posters ask already, so I figured I'd answer what the PS2 analog button's function was. The button switches between two modes of the analog joysticks, either to behave with their normal functionality, or to simply be a digital input (so just round all movement to either up/down/left/right). For PS2 games, you typically wouldn't want to do this. Instead, the functionality exists because the PS2 was backwards compatible with PS1 titles. The original PS1 controller didn't have analog sticks at all, just the D-Pad for navigation. After a few years (and the success of Nintendo's N64 analog controller) Sony released a revised version of the controller that included two joysticks, which their controllers still mimic to this day. However, those PS1 games released prior to the analog controller wouldn't always behave correctly if you tried to use an analog input scheme, so Sony added a mode to allow the Joysticks to function the same as the D-Pad, in case players preferred it. Other fun fact, the analog controller was not the same as their more famous Dualshock controller. There was a short-lived PS1 Dual Analog controller which just added the joysticks. It only lasted a few months before Sony replaced it with one that supported rumble functionality (also after being inspired by the N64), this was the Dualshock.

mikepurvis 11mo ago
I had a PS2 slim years ago and was annoyed that it wouldn’t let me use a “dual analog” controller I had kicking around to play PS2 games, eg for second player. Seemed like an unnecessarily hostile move to force an upgrade there when all the functionality other than rumble was clearly present. But of course it’s the same now on PS5. I still have my PS4 pads and use them to round out 4p couch coop for broforce, overcooked, moving out, etc, but actual PS5 games will only work with PS5 pads.
- lloeki 11mo ago
  > actual PS5 games will only work with PS5 pads So IIUC the PS4 gamepad can be used but only for PS4 games? That is ridiculous. Meanwhile I'm rocking an original release day Xbox One controller on a Series X. That said while I can understand them dropping X360 witeless due to protocol changes I'm still bitter that the X360 wired accessories were simply denied on the Xone, notably the whole Rock Band stuff as well as steering wheels.
  - gambiting 11mo ago
    >>So IIUC the PS4 gamepad can be used but only for PS4 games? That is ridiculous. It's because PS5 games can use the adaptive triggers functionality that is impossible to emulate on the PS4 controller. For example in Ratchet and Clank short pull on the trigger fires the gun, there is artifical resistance past that point, but if you pull past it it will fire the secondary weapon mode. On a PS4 controller you'd just fire the secondary mode all the time because there would be no way to find the threshold on a trigger without this functionality. Of course games could be designed around this and support both - but Sony avoided placing such a requirement on devs so all PS5 games are presumed to be using a PS5 controller when going through cert.
    - lloeki 11mo ago
      > On a PS4 controller you'd just fire the secondary mode all the time because there would be no way to find the threshold on a trigger without this functionality. Just don't mash the trigger all the way? You don't have the haptic feedback of such a trigger wall but claiming it's "impossible" is a bit extreme. A nice threshold mapping could arrange for that e.g 0-10% dead zone, 10%-80% main mode, 90%-100% secondary mode, _ factor in rate of press to avoid misfiring main mode. Which is probably the logic that it implements already, except with probably a bit more leeway thanks to the haptic feedback. "Impossible" would be playing a typical† dual stick game with a gamepad that has none (e.g original PS1 gamepad) † like a FPS that uses the now classic stick layout for quick yet precise movement + orientation Honest question as I'm curious and don't have access to a PS5: what about PS5-only games that happen to exist on other platforms that don't have such features? Can they be played with a PS4 controller? Oh and to be clear: it's not a Xbox vs PS thing, I find them both equally guilty of excessive e-wasting / platform locking, just in different ways.
      - CaptainOfCoit 11mo ago
        > Honest question as I'm curious and don't have access to a PS5: what about PS5-only games that happen to exist on other platforms that don't have such features? Can they be played with a PS4 controller? Games that use PS5-exclusive features when played on PS5 obviously don't use those features when not run on a PS5, if it's been ported. While your idea sounds neat in practice, with those thresholds and such, I'm not sure how practical it is in real-life. Lots of controllers eventually start reporting somewhat inaccurate values, sometimes rather large variance, so whatever you end up using as the actual values, they tend to not be perfect for everyone, so then the game will appear really buggy, almost broken. I'm guessing they're favoring "works 100% for everyone who can run it" rather than "Kind of works for most people, broken for the rest".
- Tsiklon 11mo ago
  The DualShock/DualAnalog were not quite the same as the DualShock 2, the face buttons on the DualShock 2 were advertised as being pressure sensitive. Some games were capable of using this.
  - scott_w 11mo ago
    Funnily enough, this caused issues with PS2 games ported to Xbox subsequently. Metal Gear Solid 2 made heavy use of the pressure sensitive buttons for weapon aiming vs shooting. I recall the Xbox didn't have pressure sensitive buttons, so had to do something different to achieve this (I'd need someone else to fill in the gaps here, I never owned an Xbox!)
    - thunderfork 11mo ago
      The original Xbox actually did have pressure sensitive face buttons. Off the top of my head, the only game I know that used them is Vexx (which strangely didn't use them on the PS2...)
    - rideontime 11mo ago
      Original Xbox had the pressure-sensitive buttons, but 360 did not, which specifically caused issues for MGS 2 and 3 in the HD Collection. Twin Snakes on the Gamecube suffered similarly, requiring awkward combinations of Y and A to lower your pistol or raise your automatic weapon without firing.
      - butlike 11mo ago
        THAT'S WHY. As an avid Metal Gear enthusiast during the release of MGS2, I remember having nearly-impossible time finding MGS2 Substance for PS2 when I wanted to do my first real replay way back in the day. I imagine it was the more popular version since it had working pressure buttons, presumably.
  - mikepurvis 11mo ago
    The PS3 had those too, but they were dropped for the PS4 and PS5. I did read that it caused a few headaches for the classics ported forward. Speaking of oddball controller features, I was a bit surprised the PS5 retained the little trackpad, given how little use it seemed to get on the PS4— even in obvious situations like Assassins Creed where you're moving an on-screen cursor around a map, but only with the thumbstick.
xandrius 11mo ago
Omg, I remember exactly that intermediate joystick. It was lighter than the dualshock, so when you held a dualshock it felt cool, especially when it started rumbling!
- Lammy 11mo ago
  I really like the concave analog sticks on that controller. The convex DualShock ones get slippery as hell once the controller is a few years old. The analog face buttons of the DualShock 2 are cool in concept but always made me press too hard out of fear of not getting up to full speed or whatever in games that used face buttons for acceleration (mostly Burnout 3 and Revenge for me) https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/List_of_console_games_that_support_pressure-sensitive_buttons#PlayStation_2 https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/List_of_console...
  - alias_neo 11mo ago
    > analog face buttons of the DualShock 2 are cool in concept but always made me press too hard The amount of hand pain this one feature all those years ago has caused. To this day I find my self having to loosen my grip and press the face buttons lighter because it makes no difference now. (Though PS5 has added a whole new level of hand ache with adaptive trigger resistance).
    - malnourish 11mo ago
      I love the adaptive triggers. I have all the consoles and a gaming PC and will buy games on PS5 because of them. I think it adds an interesting tactile element that also improves playability.
      - alias_neo 11mo ago
        I love them as a feature, I think they're really cool, but I find some games like Horizon (with the Bow)... I'm failing to think of others at the moment as I haven't played in a while... cause ache after a relatively short gaming session. Maybe I just need to look into reducing the "resistance" of them in the settings.
windward 11mo ago
So it's unrelated to the analog face buttons?
- CaptainOfCoit 11mo ago
  I don't know what "face buttons" are, but the Analog button only toggles how the Joysticks work, toggling between sending Analog or Digital signals.
  - extraduder_ire 11mo ago
    The buttons on the front of a playstation controller (d-pad, cross/circle/triangle/square) were pressure sensitive on the ps2/ps2. 256 levels on the ps2, 1024 on the ps3. Few games used this outside of racing games, and they were removed from the ps4 controller. It's most commonly noticed when configuring a ps3 controller on a PC.
cubefox 11mo ago
Strange analog stick fact: According to YouTuber Wulff Den, the first ever game that used an analog stick for third-person camera rotation was only Super Mario Sunshine in 2002. A GameCube game that came out more than two years after the release of the PS2, and several years after the N64 and the PS1 Dual Analog controller. I guess some ideas seem only obvious in hindsight.
- nemomarx 11mo ago
  I've read some early reviews of a licensed alien shooter where they complain about how confusing the control scheme is - left stick for movement and right for aim. Before Halo it wasn't really intuitive I guess?
  - cubefox 11mo ago
    Yeah, that's another point: the modern first-person controls you describe were once thought to be counterintuitive compared to the old Wolfenstein style controls. A similar point holds for third-person games: Before Super Mario 64, all third-person games had Wolfenstein style tank controls where left/right rotates the character in place and up/down makes it move forward/backward. E.g. Tomb Raider or Mega Man Legends. The idea to make character movement relative to the camera viewpoint wasn't obvious. (Though the Tomb Raider developers tried to work around this to a degree by fixing the camera behind the character, which prevented to most counterintuitive control issues Mega Man Legends had, but also meant free camera rotation was impossible.)
  - ziml77 11mo ago
    That's really strange because that setup was effectively the default for N64 games. Stick under your left thumb for movement and the C buttons under your right thumb for camera control
    - cubefox 11mo ago
      It's not strange because it's not really true. The default controls both of GoldenEye and Perfect Dark used the stick for moving forward/backward and turning left/right. Turok did use the c buttons for walking and the stick for looking though.

by aquova 11mo ago

mikepurvis 11mo ago

I had a PS2 slim years ago and was annoyed that it wouldn’t let me use a “dual analog” controller I had kicking around to play PS2 games, eg for second player. Seemed like an unnecessarily hostile move to force an upgrade there when all the functionality other than rumble was clearly present. But of course it’s the same now on PS5. I still have my PS4 pads and use them to round out 4p couch coop for broforce, overcooked, moving out, etc, but actual PS5 games will only work with PS5 pads.

lloeki 11mo ago
> actual PS5 games will only work with PS5 pads So IIUC the PS4 gamepad can be used but only for PS4 games? That is ridiculous. Meanwhile I'm rocking an original release day Xbox One controller on a Series X. That said while I can understand them dropping X360 witeless due to protocol changes I'm still bitter that the X360 wired accessories were simply denied on the Xone, notably the whole Rock Band stuff as well as steering wheels.
- gambiting 11mo ago
  >>So IIUC the PS4 gamepad can be used but only for PS4 games? That is ridiculous. It's because PS5 games can use the adaptive triggers functionality that is impossible to emulate on the PS4 controller. For example in Ratchet and Clank short pull on the trigger fires the gun, there is artifical resistance past that point, but if you pull past it it will fire the secondary weapon mode. On a PS4 controller you'd just fire the secondary mode all the time because there would be no way to find the threshold on a trigger without this functionality. Of course games could be designed around this and support both - but Sony avoided placing such a requirement on devs so all PS5 games are presumed to be using a PS5 controller when going through cert.
  - lloeki 11mo ago
    > On a PS4 controller you'd just fire the secondary mode all the time because there would be no way to find the threshold on a trigger without this functionality. Just don't mash the trigger all the way? You don't have the haptic feedback of such a trigger wall but claiming it's "impossible" is a bit extreme. A nice threshold mapping could arrange for that e.g 0-10% dead zone, 10%-80% main mode, 90%-100% secondary mode, _ factor in rate of press to avoid misfiring main mode. Which is probably the logic that it implements already, except with probably a bit more leeway thanks to the haptic feedback. "Impossible" would be playing a typical† dual stick game with a gamepad that has none (e.g original PS1 gamepad) † like a FPS that uses the now classic stick layout for quick yet precise movement + orientation Honest question as I'm curious and don't have access to a PS5: what about PS5-only games that happen to exist on other platforms that don't have such features? Can they be played with a PS4 controller? Oh and to be clear: it's not a Xbox vs PS thing, I find them both equally guilty of excessive e-wasting / platform locking, just in different ways.
    - CaptainOfCoit 11mo ago
      > Honest question as I'm curious and don't have access to a PS5: what about PS5-only games that happen to exist on other platforms that don't have such features? Can they be played with a PS4 controller? Games that use PS5-exclusive features when played on PS5 obviously don't use those features when not run on a PS5, if it's been ported. While your idea sounds neat in practice, with those thresholds and such, I'm not sure how practical it is in real-life. Lots of controllers eventually start reporting somewhat inaccurate values, sometimes rather large variance, so whatever you end up using as the actual values, they tend to not be perfect for everyone, so then the game will appear really buggy, almost broken. I'm guessing they're favoring "works 100% for everyone who can run it" rather than "Kind of works for most people, broken for the rest".
Tsiklon 11mo ago
The DualShock/DualAnalog were not quite the same as the DualShock 2, the face buttons on the DualShock 2 were advertised as being pressure sensitive. Some games were capable of using this.
- scott_w 11mo ago
  Funnily enough, this caused issues with PS2 games ported to Xbox subsequently. Metal Gear Solid 2 made heavy use of the pressure sensitive buttons for weapon aiming vs shooting. I recall the Xbox didn't have pressure sensitive buttons, so had to do something different to achieve this (I'd need someone else to fill in the gaps here, I never owned an Xbox!)
  - thunderfork 11mo ago
    The original Xbox actually did have pressure sensitive face buttons. Off the top of my head, the only game I know that used them is Vexx (which strangely didn't use them on the PS2...)
  - rideontime 11mo ago
    Original Xbox had the pressure-sensitive buttons, but 360 did not, which specifically caused issues for MGS 2 and 3 in the HD Collection. Twin Snakes on the Gamecube suffered similarly, requiring awkward combinations of Y and A to lower your pistol or raise your automatic weapon without firing.
    - butlike 11mo ago
      THAT'S WHY. As an avid Metal Gear enthusiast during the release of MGS2, I remember having nearly-impossible time finding MGS2 Substance for PS2 when I wanted to do my first real replay way back in the day. I imagine it was the more popular version since it had working pressure buttons, presumably.
- mikepurvis 11mo ago
  The PS3 had those too, but they were dropped for the PS4 and PS5. I did read that it caused a few headaches for the classics ported forward. Speaking of oddball controller features, I was a bit surprised the PS5 retained the little trackpad, given how little use it seemed to get on the PS4— even in obvious situations like Assassins Creed where you're moving an on-screen cursor around a map, but only with the thumbstick.

xandrius 11mo ago

Omg, I remember exactly that intermediate joystick. It was lighter than the dualshock, so when you held a dualshock it felt cool, especially when it started rumbling!

Lammy 11mo ago
I really like the concave analog sticks on that controller. The convex DualShock ones get slippery as hell once the controller is a few years old. The analog face buttons of the DualShock 2 are cool in concept but always made me press too hard out of fear of not getting up to full speed or whatever in games that used face buttons for acceleration (mostly Burnout 3 and Revenge for me) https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/List_of_console_games_that_support_pressure-sensitive_buttons#PlayStation_2 https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/List_of_console...
- alias_neo 11mo ago
  > analog face buttons of the DualShock 2 are cool in concept but always made me press too hard The amount of hand pain this one feature all those years ago has caused. To this day I find my self having to loosen my grip and press the face buttons lighter because it makes no difference now. (Though PS5 has added a whole new level of hand ache with adaptive trigger resistance).
  - malnourish 11mo ago
    I love the adaptive triggers. I have all the consoles and a gaming PC and will buy games on PS5 because of them. I think it adds an interesting tactile element that also improves playability.
    - alias_neo 11mo ago
      I love them as a feature, I think they're really cool, but I find some games like Horizon (with the Bow)... I'm failing to think of others at the moment as I haven't played in a while... cause ache after a relatively short gaming session. Maybe I just need to look into reducing the "resistance" of them in the settings.

windward 11mo ago

So it's unrelated to the analog face buttons?

CaptainOfCoit 11mo ago
I don't know what "face buttons" are, but the Analog button only toggles how the Joysticks work, toggling between sending Analog or Digital signals.
- extraduder_ire 11mo ago
  The buttons on the front of a playstation controller (d-pad, cross/circle/triangle/square) were pressure sensitive on the ps2/ps2. 256 levels on the ps2, 1024 on the ps3. Few games used this outside of racing games, and they were removed from the ps4 controller. It's most commonly noticed when configuring a ps3 controller on a PC.

cubefox 11mo ago

Strange analog stick fact: According to YouTuber Wulff Den, the first ever game that used an analog stick for third-person camera rotation was only Super Mario Sunshine in 2002. A GameCube game that came out more than two years after the release of the PS2, and several years after the N64 and the PS1 Dual Analog controller. I guess some ideas seem only obvious in hindsight.

nemomarx 11mo ago
I've read some early reviews of a licensed alien shooter where they complain about how confusing the control scheme is - left stick for movement and right for aim. Before Halo it wasn't really intuitive I guess?
- cubefox 11mo ago
  Yeah, that's another point: the modern first-person controls you describe were once thought to be counterintuitive compared to the old Wolfenstein style controls. A similar point holds for third-person games: Before Super Mario 64, all third-person games had Wolfenstein style tank controls where left/right rotates the character in place and up/down makes it move forward/backward. E.g. Tomb Raider or Mega Man Legends. The idea to make character movement relative to the camera viewpoint wasn't obvious. (Though the Tomb Raider developers tried to work around this to a degree by fixing the camera behind the character, which prevented to most counterintuitive control issues Mega Man Legends had, but also meant free camera rotation was impossible.)
- ziml77 11mo ago
  That's really strange because that setup was effectively the default for N64 games. Stick under your left thumb for movement and the C buttons under your right thumb for camera control
  - cubefox 11mo ago
    It's not strange because it's not really true. The default controls both of GoldenEye and Perfect Dark used the stick for moving forward/backward and turning left/right. Turok did use the c buttons for walking and the stick for looking though.