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Isn't that the whole point of hypermedia frameworks like Datastar and HTMX? It's to extend the declarativeness of HTML. If you don't like the syntax, that's yo
by hasanhaja 11mo ago
Isn't that the whole point of hypermedia frameworks like Datastar and HTMX? It's to extend the declarativeness of HTML.
If you don't like the syntax, that's your preference. But I'm curious to hear why this is "wrong". Since that's a more objective thing, we can discuss it
- troupo 11mo agoBecause it's a mish-mash of different ad-hoc DSLs. You have a DSL based on data-* attributes But then some attributes get this weird syntax-ish extension Then some of those attributes accept a Datastar expressions DSL: https://data-star.dev/guide/datastar_expressions https://data-star.dev/guide/datastar_expressions So you can have data-on-click__debounce.200ms="$landingGearRetracted && @post('/launch')" Which is just bad design
- jmstevers 11mo agoWhat design do you think would be better?
- troupo 11mo agoBoth Datastar and HTMX have the same issue: they want to pretend to be HTML. So they force themselves into writing several DSLs like this to pretend that this is still "just HTML". Since they have a full "Datastar expression" language, I'd just expand that. Then you wouldn't need these weird constructs: <button data-on-click__window__debounce.500ms.leading="$foo = ''"></button>
- jmstevers 11mo agoWell they are both "just HTML", Datastar being better about being spec compliant using the dataset attributes and all. By expanding the "Datastar expression" language, do you mean a compiled language or moving all the expressions into JS files or something else?
- troupo 11mo ago> By expanding the "Datastar expression" language, do you mean a compiled language or moving all the expressions into JS files or something else? Doesn't matter. They literally already have a Javascript-like DSL: https://data-star.dev/guide/datastar_expressions https://data-star.dev/guide/datastar_expressions
- sudodevnull 11mo agoDatastar is spec compliant HTML. Please point me to the code that's not HTML spec compliant
- hasanhaja 11mo agoI can see what you're saying. But again, the API design woes are subjective and I think it's perfectly fine to iterate on getting this to a nicer state. "Wrong" to me suggests a gap in the understanding of fundamentals or of how things work. If the ideas of Datastar are fine to all of us, and our issues with it are ergnomics, then that can be a more focused discussion.
- troupo 11mo ago> But again, the API design woes are subjective They aren't. This is not good API design <button data-on-click__window__debounce.500ms.leading="$foo = ''"></button> > "Wrong" to me suggests a gap in the understanding of fundamentals or of how things work. Snide vaguely dismissive remarks don't make such remarks true. > If the ideas of Datastar are fine to all of us Who's us? Are these "us" in the room with us right now?
- hasanhaja 11mo ago> They aren't. This is not good API design Why isn't it a good API design? > Snide vaguely dismissive remarks don't make such remarks true. Agreed! I don't believe I was doing anything of the sort. > Who's us? People on this thread.
- sudodevnull 11mo agoWe are limited to what is possible in the data dash-* spec. If you have better syntax that's going to work everywhere in every browser please let us know!
- troupo 11mo agoYou literally have a custom Javascript-like DSL already https://data-star.dev/guide/datastar_expressions https://data-star.dev/guide/datastar_expressions This wilful insanity is completely incomprehensible to me (HTMX and lit are also fully infected with it): "Oh no, we are just HTML, we can't do anything" while literally doing tons of things outside of HTML.