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When has employment politics ever meant "leveling up in soft skills"? Employment politics has always meant: brown nosing, throwing vulnerable people under the

When has employment politics ever meant "leveling up in soft skills"? Employment politics has always meant: brown nosing, throwing vulnerable people under the bus, posturing, taking credit for other people's contributions, blaming other people for your failures, and on and on. Or to use the language of TFA, "iNfLUeNcE".

lazyasciiart 1y ago
And what, you think those are technical skills?
- dfjfklei 1y ago
  My point is that framing "bad politics" as a problem with you, or your employees if you're an employer, is absurd. "Bad politics" comes straight from the top.
hchdifnfbgbf 1y ago
If that’s all you see, you probably need to level up your soft skills. Certainly the things you’re talking about are real, and particularly severe in some environments, but there’s a lot of room to improve your influence without engaging in any of that.
- dfjfklei 1y ago
  You have yet to meet someone at a company you work for you who does one or more of the things I listed above to successfully advance their career?
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    I don't think that's their point. I think their point is that you can have influence without doing these things.
    - dfjfklei 1y ago
      Then I was misunderstood as well. As if anyone, myself included, would suggest that my listed items are the only way to influence your employer is a hilariously bad faith read. I take issue with TFA framing the problem of people saying they hate "employment politics" as a you problem when I am of the opinion it is a leadership problem. Bad leaders fail to, or refuse to, see the things I listed as "bad politics". Just take my supplements, bro. It'll fix your "soft skills", bro.
      - rkomorn 1y ago
        I think you were misunderstood as well, yes.
  - hchdifnfbgbf 1y ago
    Many do. More common the further up the ladder you get. But I’ve been able to gain enough influence to affect most of the things I care about without engaging in that, unless you consider being friendly and supportive (something that did not come remotely naturally to me) to be brown-nosing. If you want to significantly influence a lot of high-level strategic decision-making at very large companies, then you do probably need to engage in nasty things like that. But most of us don’t work at that scope.
- rkomorn 1y ago
  > If that’s all you see, you probably need to level up your soft skills. Not OP but I honestly don't see how this comment/tone is warranted in response to what they wrote.
psunavy03 1y ago
This is frankly a very childish and Reddit-level take on the issue.
- dfjfklei 1y ago
  If you think HN is a bastion of "adultish takes", you're gonna have a bad time.
rkomorn 1y ago
I agree with your description of "politics" as a negative/pejorative thing. That's also the only way I'm used to hearing it. Hearing about "politics" in a neutral/positive way would be new to me.
- BeetleB 1y ago
  > I agree with your description of "politics" as a negative/pejorative thing. That's just a difference in framing between winners and losers. If you get your way, you say it was due to influence, bridge building, teamwork, etc. If you don't, you say "politics". For every occasion someone says "politics" negatively, realize the other party is using the other framing. More importantly: For every time you get your way, the other party is saying "Politics!"
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    I think that's a very valid take, actually.
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    The way I see it is: "Office politics" means getting work done, making business decisions, and/or advancing your career using means other than technical or domain expertise. It could have a good or bad outcome, but it's still politics. The key attribute is that the outcome is achieved through some other method besides actually doing or directing the work.
    - BeetleB 1y ago
      > "Office politics" means getting work done, making business decisions, and/or advancing your career using means other than technical or domain expertise. s/other than/in addition to/ That's the fundamental disagreement in this thread.
    - mlrtime 1y ago
      But nobody actually says that. I've not once heard anyone say politics in a positive term when it comes to the work environment. I agree in principle, but this whole topic needs some definitions so we're all on the same terms. "Politics" can have several different meanings.

lazyasciiart 1y ago

And what, you think those are technical skills?

dfjfklei 1y ago
My point is that framing "bad politics" as a problem with you, or your employees if you're an employer, is absurd. "Bad politics" comes straight from the top.

hchdifnfbgbf 1y ago

If that’s all you see, you probably need to level up your soft skills. Certainly the things you’re talking about are real, and particularly severe in some environments, but there’s a lot of room to improve your influence without engaging in any of that.

dfjfklei 1y ago
You have yet to meet someone at a company you work for you who does one or more of the things I listed above to successfully advance their career?
- rkomorn 1y ago
  I don't think that's their point. I think their point is that you can have influence without doing these things.
  - dfjfklei 1y ago
    Then I was misunderstood as well. As if anyone, myself included, would suggest that my listed items are the only way to influence your employer is a hilariously bad faith read. I take issue with TFA framing the problem of people saying they hate "employment politics" as a you problem when I am of the opinion it is a leadership problem. Bad leaders fail to, or refuse to, see the things I listed as "bad politics". Just take my supplements, bro. It'll fix your "soft skills", bro.
    - rkomorn 1y ago
      I think you were misunderstood as well, yes.
- hchdifnfbgbf 1y ago
  Many do. More common the further up the ladder you get. But I’ve been able to gain enough influence to affect most of the things I care about without engaging in that, unless you consider being friendly and supportive (something that did not come remotely naturally to me) to be brown-nosing. If you want to significantly influence a lot of high-level strategic decision-making at very large companies, then you do probably need to engage in nasty things like that. But most of us don’t work at that scope.
rkomorn 1y ago
> If that’s all you see, you probably need to level up your soft skills. Not OP but I honestly don't see how this comment/tone is warranted in response to what they wrote.

psunavy03 1y ago

This is frankly a very childish and Reddit-level take on the issue.

dfjfklei 1y ago
If you think HN is a bastion of "adultish takes", you're gonna have a bad time.

rkomorn 1y ago

I agree with your description of "politics" as a negative/pejorative thing. That's also the only way I'm used to hearing it. Hearing about "politics" in a neutral/positive way would be new to me.

BeetleB 1y ago
> I agree with your description of "politics" as a negative/pejorative thing. That's just a difference in framing between winners and losers. If you get your way, you say it was due to influence, bridge building, teamwork, etc. If you don't, you say "politics". For every occasion someone says "politics" negatively, realize the other party is using the other framing. More importantly: For every time you get your way, the other party is saying "Politics!"
- rkomorn 1y ago
  I think that's a very valid take, actually.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  The way I see it is: "Office politics" means getting work done, making business decisions, and/or advancing your career using means other than technical or domain expertise. It could have a good or bad outcome, but it's still politics. The key attribute is that the outcome is achieved through some other method besides actually doing or directing the work.
  - BeetleB 1y ago
    > "Office politics" means getting work done, making business decisions, and/or advancing your career using means other than technical or domain expertise. s/other than/in addition to/ That's the fundamental disagreement in this thread.
  - mlrtime 1y ago
    But nobody actually says that. I've not once heard anyone say politics in a positive term when it comes to the work environment. I agree in principle, but this whole topic needs some definitions so we're all on the same terms. "Politics" can have several different meanings.