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The issue that people have with Israel's actions is the death of civilians, not the death of Hamas, the widely recognised terrorist. I believe it also to be tru

by bArray 1y ago

The issue that people have with Israel's actions is the death of civilians, not the death of Hamas, the widely recognised terrorist. I believe it also to be true that the IDF do not want to kill civilians, and that their target is only Hamas. In which case, is it prudent to remove the IDF's ability to successfully target the correct people? Precise military intelligence is absolutely necessary for minimising civilian casualties.

roughly 1y ago
> I believe it also to be true that the IDF do not want to kill civilians, and that their target is only Hamas. I think it’s this second assertion that relies on facts not in evidence. Previous Guardian reporting on IDF use of compute for targeting indicated they were using it to increase, not decrease, the number of approved targets.
- flumpcakes 1y ago
  Quantity doesn't correlate with accuracy. OP's point was that surely having more intelligence means you are more accurate and thus less collateral damage.
  - bArray 1y ago
    Exactly. And an increase in accurate targets would lead to the faster removal of Hamas, and the process of repair can begin faster.
  - roughly 1y ago
    Again, prior reporting on the IDF’s computational efforts do not indicate that less collateral damage was a driver - quite the contrary, the algorithm was being used to pad out targeting lists: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai... You’re describing what ought to be, not what currently is.
- jameshilliard 1y ago
  Hamas is quite open about their desire to increase civilian casualties by deliberately using civilians as human shields(which is of course a war crime). It's clearly part of their overall strategy.
  - elcritch 1y ago
    This shouldn’t be a controversial statement. It’s well documented that Hamas utilizes this strategy by their own statements. On the Israeli side it’s much harder to determine what tactics some (military) groups utilize.
DSingularity 1y ago
Israel claims that they “don’t want to kill civilians” but historically have not substantially changed course when the killings became grotesquely excessive. It’s also arguably true that they have never even sincerely investigated any issues. Israel just gets more aggressive in the murder and bombing.
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ribosometronome 1y ago
    Their source for deaths in Gaza is "CNN via IDF" but reading that article, it's actually an interview re: a specifically unconfirmed report from another news agency. Mixing that with data produced with very specific methodology, like they've done with the NIH data they're also using, seems like a bit of a faux pas. Reent, published, actual figures (instead of ambiguously attributed early ones) show that they'd be up at the top end of the graph they've produced, not the bottom. https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21...
    - tguvot 1y ago
      the only thing that those numbers mean it's how many of dead combatants IDF can identify/name. if somebody killed holding RPG, he doesn't become civilian just because IDF doesn't know his name
      - DSingularity 1y ago
        Maybe that applied then but does it apply now? Each of their soldiers wear cameras. They see it in hd anytime their soldiers shooting women, old men, children. I guess only their snipers are getting away with dropping civilians constantly (as many British and American doctors are testifying they saw in gazan hospitals). And on top of this their drones target with visual data. So they see that too. I think in this war the IDF has a very very good idea of how many civilians they killed. At some point it indicates that they have set targets they are striving to meet before the world stops them.
rozap 1y ago
[edited to remove snark] there is a ton of evidence to the contrary, that the killing of civilians is intentional and systematic. that's why the ICC (finally) determined it is a genocide.
- rashkov 1y ago
  The ICC did no such thing, you're probably thinking of the ICJ, which also did no such thing according to one of the judges that ruled on that decision: “I’m glad I have a chance to address that because the court’s test for deciding whether to impose measures uses the idea of plausibility. But the test is the plausibility of the rights that are asserted by the applicant, in this case South Africa” she told the BBC show HARDtalk. “The court decided that the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court,” Donoghue said. “It then looked at the facts as well. But it did not decide—and this is something where I’m correcting what’s often said in the media—it didn’t decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.” “It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide,” she added. “But the shorthand that often appears, which is that there’s a plausible case of genocide, isn’t what the court decided.” Donoghue’s term on the bench expired a few days after the court delivered its initial ruling on Jan. 26. https://www.jns.org/former-top-hague-judge-media-wrong-to-report-court-ruled-plausible-claim-of-israeli-genocide/ https://www.jns.org/former-top-hague-judge-media-wrong-to-re...
  - komali2 1y ago
    It is interesting to me that all this sweat and tears are spent deliberating over the use of a word in faraway courts while all of us can see with our eyes the horrors Palestinians are subjected to by the occupying IDF. "We didn't say there was a genocide! We acknowledged the plausibility of the possibility that potentially maybe an investigation might perhaps occur into the possibility of maybe Palestinians being able to experience a genocide by someone." It reminds me of a conversation I had with an Israeli a few weeks back. He asked me, "if what Israel is doing is so bad, why does nobody stop it?" A great question. I don't know. And the bodies of children continue to pile up.
perfmode 1y ago
Evidence indicates the intention is to kill indiscriminately, hence the genocide determinations.
- bArray 1y ago
  I would be interested to read the evidence for myself if you have sources?
  - dunekid 1y ago
    Would you accept it even if it was shown? Or would you go on with adjacents to say how it is not evidence? Get new points from the ITF. Maybe hold them to the a fraction of accountability that you throw around.
  - zawaideh 1y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45379611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45379611
d0gsg0w00f 1y ago
[flagged]
- bArray 1y ago
  > I know this will be unpopular, but I'm just repeating what I've heard from the Israeli side [..] It's war, this is the unfortunate truth and why we try to avoid war. Nobody really ends up winning in this. > This doesn't justify killing civilians, but what do you do when civilians kill you? Then point at which a civilian picks up a weapon to operate alongside Hamas, they have become Hamas and are no longer civilians. > It's a nasty situation no matter which side you look at it from. Yes. But a peaceful solution was almost impossible once Hamas performed their October 7 attack. The other day the UN members agreed to recognise Palestine as a state, and now the only thing left on Hamas' manifesto is the complete destruction of Israel [1]. I suspect Israel is not inclined to negotiate on that demand. [1] https://www.dni.gov/nctc/terrorist_groups/hamas.html https://www.dni.gov/nctc/terrorist_groups/hamas.html
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- thisislife2 1y ago
  Well, I guess it would be equally unpopular to the Israelis to hear that the global majority and the Palestinians consider Israel as oppressors and occupiers, and Hamas as freedom fighters. And as one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, it also brings focus into another interesting point - only certain western countries have designated Hamas as terrorists, while the rest of the world doesn't agree with that designation because, well Israel is a settler-occupier. Leave Hamas aside - is anyone here, whatever be your nationality, surprised that every Palestinian (including those in West Bank) is ready to fight (violently or non-violently) for their freedom, for their independence, when the Israelis are hell bent on oppressing them (by treating them as second class citizens), killing them or chasing them away from their homeland? Remember, Israel has already colonised all of Palestine, for many decades now. They have the choice to integrate the Palestinians into their society, and make them equal citizens. Instead, they chose not to, because the religious fundamentalists right-wing in Israel, who have captured power of all Israeli institutions, don't want a secular state - they want Jewish state with a Jewish majority. That is why Israel chose to create an Apartheid society where the Palestinians are treated as worse than second-class citizens, to make them react violently and use that as an excuse to steal more of their land. That is why this genocide is happening under the Israeli-right - to turn the Palestinians into a small minority group that will not be a threat to a future "Jewish" state.
School-Cotton 1y ago
> Precise military intelligence is absolutely necessary for minimising civilian casualties. Whatever they've been doing on that front doesn't seem to be working so far...
- ars 1y ago
  It's so weird how people think the casualty rate in Gaza is high, it's actually incredibly low, virtually no other army in the world could achieve such a low collateral damage rate in urban warfare against guerillas.
  - Moru 1y ago
    The killings are not only direct hits with bullets. They are also blocking food, medicine and healthcare. Noone can survive without food. The goal is not to kill hamas, that was just the excuse, it is to clear the ground for new settlements.
    - ars 1y ago
      I think the total reported deaths from food issues - as reported by Hamas mind you - are in the 1,000 range. Which is still a very small number for a war zone. > The goal is not to kill hamas, that was just the excuse, it is to clear the ground for new settlements. Israel has explicitly stated that this is NOT the goal, are you in a position to change their policy or something? I don't get how you think you can determine their goals for them, unless you are a member of their government (are you?). Your stated goal doesn't even make any sense - why would they even need to "clear ground" in the first place? Just go live in those houses. And if you mean "kill people", then why are the deaths so low?
      - Moru 1y ago
        I watch independent news from official sources, not an american news source.
      - Moru 1y ago
        The 1000 civilians dead were in connection to food distribution. That number should be 0 even in a war zone. Israel has been taking over palestinian villages for a very long time, murdering the inhabitants. The government is fueling the hate. They aren't even affraid to say it out aloud. I have seen several reports where they are calling for genocide.
zawaideh 1y ago
It is a genocide. They are targeting civilians.
- davidjeet 1y ago
  Proof? Or just what is convenient for you to believe? If anything, quite the opposite. Think about this logically - why the need for expensive surveillance if your chief goal was to annihilate a population?
  - rcpt 1y ago
    It's already been linked in the thread https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_and_incitement_in_the_Gaza_genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_and_incitement_in_the...
  - dunekid 1y ago
    >why the need for expensive surveillance if your chief goal was to annihilate a population A question suited for ITF and Netanyahu maybe? Ask them spend less. He gets to prolong this Genocide, then he gets to stay out of trial for his previous crimes. Maybe ITF is not in a hurry.
    - davidjeet 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - zawaideh 1y ago
    For those looking for direct sources on the findings of genocide in Gaza, here are several key reports and legal conclusions from human rights organizations, international courts, and genocide scholars: 1. UN Commission of Inquiry: Concluded that Israel has committed genocide in the Gaza Strip. * Report: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c... * Press Conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trUcK8hHaIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trUcK8hHaIA 2. Amnesty International: Concluded that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. * Statement: https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/end-israels-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/end-israels-genocide-aga... 3. B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories): Published their conclusion that Israel is committing genocide. * Report ("Our Genocide"): https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide 4. International Court of Justice (ICJ): Ruled in January 2024 that it is plausible Israel's acts could violate the Genocide Convention. * Case Details: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 5. Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention: Issued an "Active Genocide Alert" in October 2023, warning of the high risk of genocide. * Alert: https://www.lemkininstitute.com/active-genocide-alert-1/active-genocide-alert---israel-palestine%3A-there-is-no-justification-for-genocide https://www.lemkininstitute.com/active-genocide-alert-1/acti... Beyond these formal reports, it's crucial to acknowledge that this has been one of the most documented atrocities in history, often livestreamed by Palestinians on the ground. Their testimonies have been consistent from the beginning, yet they are frequently dismissed until a non-Palestinian, "human" source validates their lived experience.
basilgohar 1y ago
It is the IDF and Israel governments explicit goal, as stated by high up government officials and leaders, to eradicate all Palestians in Gaza. A cursory view into their own Hebrew media make this abundantly clear. They are committing a genocide in both word and deed.
- js212 1y ago
  A few government officials have said this. No one part of the War Cabinet has said this and it is definitely NOT the explicitly goal of the IDF. This is entirely made up.
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    >I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.
    - jameshilliard 1y ago
      > I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. For some additional context this initial complete siege lasted for roughly two weeks.
    - zdragnar 1y ago
      > We are fighting human animals What else do you call people who rape and murder civilians, then parade their dead bodies around to cheering crowds? Hamas will never have any sympathy from most people who watched the October 7 attack footage.
      - mrguyorama 1y ago
        Refusing to distinguish between random Palestinians and Hamas members is literally the entire problem I have ZERO issue with the IDF killing Hamas. That's what you do in a war. But we have ample evidence that Israel and the IDF is not making any effort to not kill random Palestinians. They made some stupid AI algorithm to feed data into in order to generate target lists. They accepted something like 10:1 "innocent palestinian":"literal terrorist" ratios. They have no qualms about killing a 10 innocent Palestinians to kill a single Hamas terrorist This is unacceptable.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> issue that people have with Israel's actions is the death of civilians, not the death of Hamas Would note that this issue has sufficiently polarised that there are thoughtful people in e.g. New York who think it’s an atrocity for even Hamas fighters to be killed. (Same as there are folks who think every Palestinian is safely presumed a terrorist until proved innocent.)
stackedinserter 1y ago
Inconvenient truth is that anyone who remained in Gaza, in active IDF ops area, is not a civilian. Civilians left these areas, or at least asked to leave many, many times. Unless it's a little child that's not capable of lifting a firearm, this person is Hamas at this point. If you have better way to differentiate, I will happily pass it to IDF. Don't forget to mention about the last time you risked your own life.
- dunekid 1y ago
  >Civilians left these areas, or at least asked to leave many, many times. Where to? Hind Rajab ,literally a child, was brutally killed when fleeing their home, after being asked of course. The ambulance which came to rescue was blown up by the ITF. The Whole world has seen it all, ITF proudly displays it. Maybe it is time to update the Hasbara points. >Don't forget to mention about the last time you risked your own life. Why? ITF certainly risks many children's life, just for sport often.
  - dijit 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - stackedinserter 1y ago
    Kid, civilians die in war zones, that's sad truth about world that you was born into. It sucks that this child was killed. Nobody in IDF or in any other army wants to kill civilians and children, btw unlike Hamas pigs that openly bragged about it, and benefit from every single civilian death in this conflict. > Why Because there's no shortage of armchair operators that know better how to make split second decisions in combat. Also, they never do anything wrong because they never happen to be in situation where you have to decide between bad and worse.
stale2002 1y ago
[flagged]
Hikikomori 1y ago
You can easily find telegram channels that show what regular Israeli soldiers are up to, they post it themselves like they're proud of it. Take a look at it and see what you think then.
joe463369 1y ago
> I believe it also to be true that the IDF do not want to kill civilians They should probably stop shooting them then.
greenie_beans 1y ago
hasn't the death toll surpassed the number of hamas members?
- hashim 1y ago
  What part don't you understand? EVERYONE is Hamas, including the several kids that Western doctors have testified to being hit by snipers, and the little girl named Hind Rajab that they shot 300 bullets into. And the hospitals? Crawling with Hamas.
propagandist 1y ago
The state you are referring to literally calls Palestinians a demographic threat.
Sporktacular 1y ago
Reading the article you'll see that much of the surveillance is against the West Bank population, which has nothing to do with Hamas or Oct 7. Israel has been very effective at blurring that distinction, using that attack from Gaza as the pretext to accelerate land theft in the West Bank.

by bArray 1y ago

roughly 1y ago

> I believe it also to be true that the IDF do not want to kill civilians, and that their target is only Hamas. I think it’s this second assertion that relies on facts not in evidence. Previous Guardian reporting on IDF use of compute for targeting indicated they were using it to increase, not decrease, the number of approved targets.

flumpcakes 1y ago
Quantity doesn't correlate with accuracy. OP's point was that surely having more intelligence means you are more accurate and thus less collateral damage.
- bArray 1y ago
  Exactly. And an increase in accurate targets would lead to the faster removal of Hamas, and the process of repair can begin faster.
- roughly 1y ago
  Again, prior reporting on the IDF’s computational efforts do not indicate that less collateral damage was a driver - quite the contrary, the algorithm was being used to pad out targeting lists: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai... You’re describing what ought to be, not what currently is.
jameshilliard 1y ago
Hamas is quite open about their desire to increase civilian casualties by deliberately using civilians as human shields(which is of course a war crime). It's clearly part of their overall strategy.
- elcritch 1y ago
  This shouldn’t be a controversial statement. It’s well documented that Hamas utilizes this strategy by their own statements. On the Israeli side it’s much harder to determine what tactics some (military) groups utilize.

DSingularity 1y ago

Israel claims that they “don’t want to kill civilians” but historically have not substantially changed course when the killings became grotesquely excessive. It’s also arguably true that they have never even sincerely investigated any issues. Israel just gets more aggressive in the murder and bombing.

FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
[flagged]
- ribosometronome 1y ago
  Their source for deaths in Gaza is "CNN via IDF" but reading that article, it's actually an interview re: a specifically unconfirmed report from another news agency. Mixing that with data produced with very specific methodology, like they've done with the NIH data they're also using, seems like a bit of a faux pas. Reent, published, actual figures (instead of ambiguously attributed early ones) show that they'd be up at the top end of the graph they've produced, not the bottom. https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21...
  - tguvot 1y ago
    the only thing that those numbers mean it's how many of dead combatants IDF can identify/name. if somebody killed holding RPG, he doesn't become civilian just because IDF doesn't know his name
    - DSingularity 1y ago
      Maybe that applied then but does it apply now? Each of their soldiers wear cameras. They see it in hd anytime their soldiers shooting women, old men, children. I guess only their snipers are getting away with dropping civilians constantly (as many British and American doctors are testifying they saw in gazan hospitals). And on top of this their drones target with visual data. So they see that too. I think in this war the IDF has a very very good idea of how many civilians they killed. At some point it indicates that they have set targets they are striving to meet before the world stops them.

rozap 1y ago

[edited to remove snark] there is a ton of evidence to the contrary, that the killing of civilians is intentional and systematic. that's why the ICC (finally) determined it is a genocide.

rashkov 1y ago
The ICC did no such thing, you're probably thinking of the ICJ, which also did no such thing according to one of the judges that ruled on that decision: “I’m glad I have a chance to address that because the court’s test for deciding whether to impose measures uses the idea of plausibility. But the test is the plausibility of the rights that are asserted by the applicant, in this case South Africa” she told the BBC show HARDtalk. “The court decided that the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court,” Donoghue said. “It then looked at the facts as well. But it did not decide—and this is something where I’m correcting what’s often said in the media—it didn’t decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.” “It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide,” she added. “But the shorthand that often appears, which is that there’s a plausible case of genocide, isn’t what the court decided.” Donoghue’s term on the bench expired a few days after the court delivered its initial ruling on Jan. 26. https://www.jns.org/former-top-hague-judge-media-wrong-to-report-court-ruled-plausible-claim-of-israeli-genocide/ https://www.jns.org/former-top-hague-judge-media-wrong-to-re...
- komali2 1y ago
  It is interesting to me that all this sweat and tears are spent deliberating over the use of a word in faraway courts while all of us can see with our eyes the horrors Palestinians are subjected to by the occupying IDF. "We didn't say there was a genocide! We acknowledged the plausibility of the possibility that potentially maybe an investigation might perhaps occur into the possibility of maybe Palestinians being able to experience a genocide by someone." It reminds me of a conversation I had with an Israeli a few weeks back. He asked me, "if what Israel is doing is so bad, why does nobody stop it?" A great question. I don't know. And the bodies of children continue to pile up.

perfmode 1y ago

Evidence indicates the intention is to kill indiscriminately, hence the genocide determinations.

bArray 1y ago
I would be interested to read the evidence for myself if you have sources?
- dunekid 1y ago
  Would you accept it even if it was shown? Or would you go on with adjacents to say how it is not evidence? Get new points from the ITF. Maybe hold them to the a fraction of accountability that you throw around.
- zawaideh 1y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45379611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45379611

d0gsg0w00f 1y ago

[flagged]

bArray 1y ago
> I know this will be unpopular, but I'm just repeating what I've heard from the Israeli side [..] It's war, this is the unfortunate truth and why we try to avoid war. Nobody really ends up winning in this. > This doesn't justify killing civilians, but what do you do when civilians kill you? Then point at which a civilian picks up a weapon to operate alongside Hamas, they have become Hamas and are no longer civilians. > It's a nasty situation no matter which side you look at it from. Yes. But a peaceful solution was almost impossible once Hamas performed their October 7 attack. The other day the UN members agreed to recognise Palestine as a state, and now the only thing left on Hamas' manifesto is the complete destruction of Israel [1]. I suspect Israel is not inclined to negotiate on that demand. [1] https://www.dni.gov/nctc/terrorist_groups/hamas.html https://www.dni.gov/nctc/terrorist_groups/hamas.html
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
thisislife2 1y ago
Well, I guess it would be equally unpopular to the Israelis to hear that the global majority and the Palestinians consider Israel as oppressors and occupiers, and Hamas as freedom fighters. And as one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, it also brings focus into another interesting point - only certain western countries have designated Hamas as terrorists, while the rest of the world doesn't agree with that designation because, well Israel is a settler-occupier. Leave Hamas aside - is anyone here, whatever be your nationality, surprised that every Palestinian (including those in West Bank) is ready to fight (violently or non-violently) for their freedom, for their independence, when the Israelis are hell bent on oppressing them (by treating them as second class citizens), killing them or chasing them away from their homeland? Remember, Israel has already colonised all of Palestine, for many decades now. They have the choice to integrate the Palestinians into their society, and make them equal citizens. Instead, they chose not to, because the religious fundamentalists right-wing in Israel, who have captured power of all Israeli institutions, don't want a secular state - they want Jewish state with a Jewish majority. That is why Israel chose to create an Apartheid society where the Palestinians are treated as worse than second-class citizens, to make them react violently and use that as an excuse to steal more of their land. That is why this genocide is happening under the Israeli-right - to turn the Palestinians into a small minority group that will not be a threat to a future "Jewish" state.

School-Cotton 1y ago

> Precise military intelligence is absolutely necessary for minimising civilian casualties. Whatever they've been doing on that front doesn't seem to be working so far...

ars 1y ago
It's so weird how people think the casualty rate in Gaza is high, it's actually incredibly low, virtually no other army in the world could achieve such a low collateral damage rate in urban warfare against guerillas.
- Moru 1y ago
  The killings are not only direct hits with bullets. They are also blocking food, medicine and healthcare. Noone can survive without food. The goal is not to kill hamas, that was just the excuse, it is to clear the ground for new settlements.
  - ars 1y ago
    I think the total reported deaths from food issues - as reported by Hamas mind you - are in the 1,000 range. Which is still a very small number for a war zone. > The goal is not to kill hamas, that was just the excuse, it is to clear the ground for new settlements. Israel has explicitly stated that this is NOT the goal, are you in a position to change their policy or something? I don't get how you think you can determine their goals for them, unless you are a member of their government (are you?). Your stated goal doesn't even make any sense - why would they even need to "clear ground" in the first place? Just go live in those houses. And if you mean "kill people", then why are the deaths so low?
    - Moru 1y ago
      I watch independent news from official sources, not an american news source.
    - Moru 1y ago
      The 1000 civilians dead were in connection to food distribution. That number should be 0 even in a war zone. Israel has been taking over palestinian villages for a very long time, murdering the inhabitants. The government is fueling the hate. They aren't even affraid to say it out aloud. I have seen several reports where they are calling for genocide.

zawaideh 1y ago

It is a genocide. They are targeting civilians.

davidjeet 1y ago
Proof? Or just what is convenient for you to believe? If anything, quite the opposite. Think about this logically - why the need for expensive surveillance if your chief goal was to annihilate a population?
- rcpt 1y ago
  It's already been linked in the thread https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_and_incitement_in_the_Gaza_genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_and_incitement_in_the...
- dunekid 1y ago
  >why the need for expensive surveillance if your chief goal was to annihilate a population A question suited for ITF and Netanyahu maybe? Ask them spend less. He gets to prolong this Genocide, then he gets to stay out of trial for his previous crimes. Maybe ITF is not in a hurry.
  - davidjeet 1y ago
    [flagged]
- zawaideh 1y ago
  For those looking for direct sources on the findings of genocide in Gaza, here are several key reports and legal conclusions from human rights organizations, international courts, and genocide scholars: 1. UN Commission of Inquiry: Concluded that Israel has committed genocide in the Gaza Strip. * Report: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c... * Press Conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trUcK8hHaIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trUcK8hHaIA 2. Amnesty International: Concluded that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. * Statement: https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/end-israels-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/end-israels-genocide-aga... 3. B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories): Published their conclusion that Israel is committing genocide. * Report ("Our Genocide"): https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide 4. International Court of Justice (ICJ): Ruled in January 2024 that it is plausible Israel's acts could violate the Genocide Convention. * Case Details: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 5. Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention: Issued an "Active Genocide Alert" in October 2023, warning of the high risk of genocide. * Alert: https://www.lemkininstitute.com/active-genocide-alert-1/active-genocide-alert---israel-palestine%3A-there-is-no-justification-for-genocide https://www.lemkininstitute.com/active-genocide-alert-1/acti... Beyond these formal reports, it's crucial to acknowledge that this has been one of the most documented atrocities in history, often livestreamed by Palestinians on the ground. Their testimonies have been consistent from the beginning, yet they are frequently dismissed until a non-Palestinian, "human" source validates their lived experience.

basilgohar 1y ago

It is the IDF and Israel governments explicit goal, as stated by high up government officials and leaders, to eradicate all Palestians in Gaza. A cursory view into their own Hebrew media make this abundantly clear. They are committing a genocide in both word and deed.

js212 1y ago
A few government officials have said this. No one part of the War Cabinet has said this and it is definitely NOT the explicitly goal of the IDF. This is entirely made up.
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  >I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.
  - jameshilliard 1y ago
    > I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. For some additional context this initial complete siege lasted for roughly two weeks.
  - zdragnar 1y ago
    > We are fighting human animals What else do you call people who rape and murder civilians, then parade their dead bodies around to cheering crowds? Hamas will never have any sympathy from most people who watched the October 7 attack footage.
    - mrguyorama 1y ago
      Refusing to distinguish between random Palestinians and Hamas members is literally the entire problem I have ZERO issue with the IDF killing Hamas. That's what you do in a war. But we have ample evidence that Israel and the IDF is not making any effort to not kill random Palestinians. They made some stupid AI algorithm to feed data into in order to generate target lists. They accepted something like 10:1 "innocent palestinian":"literal terrorist" ratios. They have no qualms about killing a 10 innocent Palestinians to kill a single Hamas terrorist This is unacceptable.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> issue that people have with Israel's actions is the death of civilians, not the death of Hamas Would note that this issue has sufficiently polarised that there are thoughtful people in e.g. New York who think it’s an atrocity for even Hamas fighters to be killed. (Same as there are folks who think every Palestinian is safely presumed a terrorist until proved innocent.)

stackedinserter 1y ago

Inconvenient truth is that anyone who remained in Gaza, in active IDF ops area, is not a civilian. Civilians left these areas, or at least asked to leave many, many times. Unless it's a little child that's not capable of lifting a firearm, this person is Hamas at this point. If you have better way to differentiate, I will happily pass it to IDF. Don't forget to mention about the last time you risked your own life.

dunekid 1y ago
>Civilians left these areas, or at least asked to leave many, many times. Where to? Hind Rajab ,literally a child, was brutally killed when fleeing their home, after being asked of course. The ambulance which came to rescue was blown up by the ITF. The Whole world has seen it all, ITF proudly displays it. Maybe it is time to update the Hasbara points. >Don't forget to mention about the last time you risked your own life. Why? ITF certainly risks many children's life, just for sport often.
- dijit 1y ago
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- stackedinserter 1y ago
  Kid, civilians die in war zones, that's sad truth about world that you was born into. It sucks that this child was killed. Nobody in IDF or in any other army wants to kill civilians and children, btw unlike Hamas pigs that openly bragged about it, and benefit from every single civilian death in this conflict. > Why Because there's no shortage of armchair operators that know better how to make split second decisions in combat. Also, they never do anything wrong because they never happen to be in situation where you have to decide between bad and worse.

stale2002 1y ago

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Hikikomori 1y ago

You can easily find telegram channels that show what regular Israeli soldiers are up to, they post it themselves like they're proud of it. Take a look at it and see what you think then.

joe463369 1y ago

> I believe it also to be true that the IDF do not want to kill civilians They should probably stop shooting them then.

greenie_beans 1y ago

hasn't the death toll surpassed the number of hamas members?

hashim 1y ago
What part don't you understand? EVERYONE is Hamas, including the several kids that Western doctors have testified to being hit by snipers, and the little girl named Hind Rajab that they shot 300 bullets into. And the hospitals? Crawling with Hamas.

propagandist 1y ago

The state you are referring to literally calls Palestinians a demographic threat.

Sporktacular 1y ago

Reading the article you'll see that much of the surveillance is against the West Bank population, which has nothing to do with Hamas or Oct 7. Israel has been very effective at blurring that distinction, using that attack from Gaza as the pretext to accelerate land theft in the West Bank.