6 ms·

So how is DHH a fascist? Or is this just the in vogue ad hominem attack right now?

by AOE9 1y ago

edent 1y ago
[flagged]
- pantulis 1y ago
  Agreed, but being a conservative or right wing person does not equal being a fascist. We should be reserving those words to the people that really deserve them, otherwise the word loses the meaning.
  - edent 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - andriesm 1y ago
      And this is why these very serious words have lost their power. Racist, Sexist, Fascist.... When half the country is deemed to support "literal" Himler, or when Elon Musk, or Jews with family impacted by the Holocaust, are called Nahtzees, then these words have been diluted to mean nothing. I hope people who so overused&misused these words are happy with what they achieved. Congratulations you made these words lose all power. I would have preferred a world where these words still had serious meaning attached to them.
      - AOE9 1y ago
        I agree the words are misused, it is the boy who cried wolf. Hence why I had to ask if DHH was X.
    - AOE9 1y ago
      So who does he support that is fascist?
      - mijoharas 1y ago
        Tommy robinson https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45358819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45358819
  - DoctorOW 1y ago
    We as a society keep coming up with more and more esoteric definition of "fascist" just to avoid having one that fits modern day political actors. I feel like the word has far more meaning here, where it's used to describe a set of policy prescriptions than it is as only referring to a list of groups with all criteria for entry erased.
    - AOE9 1y ago
      Personally it seems the other way round, more and more esoteric definition of X so you can label your opponent it and discount everything about them without having to debate. Hence why I had to ask if he actually is one.
      - DoctorOW 1y ago
        Let's start with the simplest definition I could find, just to walk you through it. > "(n) an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization." Is this what DHH is advocating for? Absolutely. I'll skip past right wing because that part is obvious. Nationalistic in terms of "non-Londoners" being used interchangeably with immigrants, a person from Birmingham meets his "Native London" criteria, and using that criteria for social organization. Pretty cut and dry for anyone using just the basic dictionary definition. Obviously, there's a version with more stipulations and exceptions you'd rather use but those can be safely filled under "overly esoteric".
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- sto11z 1y ago
  That is not true, the phrase is non-native brits, and that is very different to what you wrote.
  - edent 1y ago
    Do you really think he's complaining about the white Aussie bartender who comes over here?
    - sto11z 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - edent 1y ago
        He says "non-native brits" - but what does he actually link to? Come on, this isn't hard.
        drcongo 1y ago
        He also complains that he, a non-brit, doesn't want to live in London because it has non-brits living there. He's a racist, plain and simple.
    - benmmurphy 1y ago
      Maybe not Aussie bartender but even a lot of typically 'white' Europeans have very different cultures than English and Australian. For example when it comes when it comes to punctuality or queuing. Even stuff like how contracts are treated can be very different depending on the culture. DHH is Dutch and maybe closer to English culture than Italian/Spanish/French. EDIT: removed unnecessary trailing inflammatory comment
    - andriesm 1y ago
      "Do you really think he's complaining about the white Aussie bartender who comes over here?" -> Theres little complaint about the "white" Ausie bartender, BECAUSE he probably speaks great English, came there legally, isn't consuming wellfare resources, isn't advocating for Sharia law, and might even end up going back to Ausie land. It's not about *skin color*, it is about culture/crime/wellfare resources and legal double standards. If an Ausie entered the UK illegally, he would be deported. If an Ausie committed a crime, he goes to jail and/or deported. With these other people, they enter illegally but then get placed in tax payer funded hotels and politicians conspire with police to cover up their crimes (see the rape gang scandals) and they literaly arrested the victims. At one point there were plenty of complaints when *too many Polish white dudes* rocked up in the UK and competed for jobs and didn't always speak good English. Not about race - it is about Language, culture, job competition, crime rates, wellfare resources, values (sharia-law / treatment of women), social integration vs enclaves. And only when it involves so many millions of people comming in that it rapidly alters the local culture. (or shifts votes! or whatever other thing people care about - overwhelming of infrastructure / housing availability) Why is DHH a racist for sympathising with some Britts whom are unhappy with the 60% cultural transformation that is occuring in London? You are reading between the lines to hastily conclude that DHH is a racist. You need more than just "he wasn't complaining about white Ausie bartenders". Quote me an actual paragraph or sentence where DHH says he dislikes anyone because of their race ? Or stop calling people racists without hard proof. The tone of that DDH London article seems quite radical. But tone is not enough to indict.
- throwaway99321 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - edent 1y ago
    Mate, I live in London. It's great. Come visit and enjoy a pint of beer. Travel will help you pull your head out of the sand.
    - zaruvi 1y ago
      Knife crime statistics seem to suggest otherwise. It is nice, until it is not.
      - edent 1y ago
        Knife crime is down 19% in London this year https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nqvzzq79o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nqvzzq79o And still fewer stabbings per-capita than NYC.
        AOE9 1y ago
        It only matters in comparison to the rest of the UK, you don't know how they are collected/recorded differently across countries.
        edent 1y ago
        London has a lower knife crime rate than the West Midlands. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04304/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04... Hope that helps!
        AOE9 1y ago
        Interesting it says knife crime for 23/24 was up 16% for London. I wonder if they only record convictions so the 19% decrease will change as people are convicted. Also West Midlands is that not Biringham etc? Is that not one of the other mostly non-white places in the UK? You could have pointed to number 3 on the list Cleveland being mostly white(95%+ I think) and not being much lower than London.
whstl 1y ago
I think the point is that was in vogue 5-10 years ago but now people are treating it as background noise due to overuse. Which sucks because there is real fascism in some parts of society. But DHH? I have no idea.
mijoharas 1y ago
Yeah, I don't really think it's addressed much in this article, but it's fairly clear from his posts. There is a thread here discussing it[0]. Essentially, he is posting articles[1] saying he wants fewer non-white people in London.[2]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303111 [1] https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303305
- AOE9 1y ago
  I was not aware of his opinions till yesterday, but I am still not sure how that is fascist, it might be something else but not fascist?
  - mijoharas 1y ago
    Ahhh, sorry, I was focusing on the rascist side. In the article he supports Tommy Robinson[0], who I think most people in the UK would consider a fascist. He started the EDL (english defense league) which was a more violent extreme version of the BNP (british national party), which the ADL article I just linked describes as "fascist". I only found out about his views the other day too, so can't say I've noticed any articles that are explicitly fascist, but given what I've read and his support for fascist figures I wouldn't necessarily be surprised at the moment to be honest. You do raise a fair point though. [0] https://www.adl.org/resources/article/tommy-robinson-five-things-know https://www.adl.org/resources/article/tommy-robinson-five-th...
    - AOE9 1y ago
      I am from the UK and know about Tommy Robinson in passing. I read the ADL article and am struggling to see how he is a fascist, he is anti-islam and anti-immigrant but how does that translate to wanting a dictatorial leader, autocracy, forcible suppression etc like Russia?
      - frozen_tomato 1y ago

So how is DHH a fascist? Or is this just the in vogue ad hominem attack right now?

by AOE9 1y ago

So how is DHH a fascist? Or is this just the in vogue ad hominem attack right now?

edent 1y ago

[flagged]

pantulis 1y ago
Agreed, but being a conservative or right wing person does not equal being a fascist. We should be reserving those words to the people that really deserve them, otherwise the word loses the meaning.
- edent 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - andriesm 1y ago
    And this is why these very serious words have lost their power. Racist, Sexist, Fascist.... When half the country is deemed to support "literal" Himler, or when Elon Musk, or Jews with family impacted by the Holocaust, are called Nahtzees, then these words have been diluted to mean nothing. I hope people who so overused&misused these words are happy with what they achieved. Congratulations you made these words lose all power. I would have preferred a world where these words still had serious meaning attached to them.
    - AOE9 1y ago
      I agree the words are misused, it is the boy who cried wolf. Hence why I had to ask if DHH was X.
  - AOE9 1y ago
    So who does he support that is fascist?
    - mijoharas 1y ago
      Tommy robinson https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45358819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45358819
- DoctorOW 1y ago
  We as a society keep coming up with more and more esoteric definition of "fascist" just to avoid having one that fits modern day political actors. I feel like the word has far more meaning here, where it's used to describe a set of policy prescriptions than it is as only referring to a list of groups with all criteria for entry erased.
  - AOE9 1y ago
    Personally it seems the other way round, more and more esoteric definition of X so you can label your opponent it and discount everything about them without having to debate. Hence why I had to ask if he actually is one.
    - DoctorOW 1y ago
      Let's start with the simplest definition I could find, just to walk you through it. > "(n) an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization." Is this what DHH is advocating for? Absolutely. I'll skip past right wing because that part is obvious. Nationalistic in terms of "non-Londoners" being used interchangeably with immigrants, a person from Birmingham meets his "Native London" criteria, and using that criteria for social organization. Pretty cut and dry for anyone using just the basic dictionary definition. Obviously, there's a version with more stipulations and exceptions you'd rather use but those can be safely filled under "overly esoteric".
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
sto11z 1y ago
That is not true, the phrase is non-native brits, and that is very different to what you wrote.
- edent 1y ago
  Do you really think he's complaining about the white Aussie bartender who comes over here?
  - sto11z 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - edent 1y ago
      He says "non-native brits" - but what does he actually link to? Come on, this isn't hard.
      - drcongo 1y ago
        He also complains that he, a non-brit, doesn't want to live in London because it has non-brits living there. He's a racist, plain and simple.
  - benmmurphy 1y ago
    Maybe not Aussie bartender but even a lot of typically 'white' Europeans have very different cultures than English and Australian. For example when it comes when it comes to punctuality or queuing. Even stuff like how contracts are treated can be very different depending on the culture. DHH is Dutch and maybe closer to English culture than Italian/Spanish/French. EDIT: removed unnecessary trailing inflammatory comment
  - andriesm 1y ago
    "Do you really think he's complaining about the white Aussie bartender who comes over here?" -> Theres little complaint about the "white" Ausie bartender, BECAUSE he probably speaks great English, came there legally, isn't consuming wellfare resources, isn't advocating for Sharia law, and might even end up going back to Ausie land. It's not about *skin color*, it is about culture/crime/wellfare resources and legal double standards. If an Ausie entered the UK illegally, he would be deported. If an Ausie committed a crime, he goes to jail and/or deported. With these other people, they enter illegally but then get placed in tax payer funded hotels and politicians conspire with police to cover up their crimes (see the rape gang scandals) and they literaly arrested the victims. At one point there were plenty of complaints when *too many Polish white dudes* rocked up in the UK and competed for jobs and didn't always speak good English. Not about race - it is about Language, culture, job competition, crime rates, wellfare resources, values (sharia-law / treatment of women), social integration vs enclaves. And only when it involves so many millions of people comming in that it rapidly alters the local culture. (or shifts votes! or whatever other thing people care about - overwhelming of infrastructure / housing availability) Why is DHH a racist for sympathising with some Britts whom are unhappy with the 60% cultural transformation that is occuring in London? You are reading between the lines to hastily conclude that DHH is a racist. You need more than just "he wasn't complaining about white Ausie bartenders". Quote me an actual paragraph or sentence where DHH says he dislikes anyone because of their race ? Or stop calling people racists without hard proof. The tone of that DDH London article seems quite radical. But tone is not enough to indict.
throwaway99321 1y ago
[flagged]
- edent 1y ago
  Mate, I live in London. It's great. Come visit and enjoy a pint of beer. Travel will help you pull your head out of the sand.
  - zaruvi 1y ago
    Knife crime statistics seem to suggest otherwise. It is nice, until it is not.
    - edent 1y ago
      Knife crime is down 19% in London this year https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nqvzzq79o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nqvzzq79o And still fewer stabbings per-capita than NYC.
      - AOE9 1y ago
        It only matters in comparison to the rest of the UK, you don't know how they are collected/recorded differently across countries.
        edent 1y ago
        London has a lower knife crime rate than the West Midlands. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04304/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04... Hope that helps!
        AOE9 1y ago
        Interesting it says knife crime for 23/24 was up 16% for London. I wonder if they only record convictions so the 19% decrease will change as people are convicted. Also West Midlands is that not Biringham etc? Is that not one of the other mostly non-white places in the UK? You could have pointed to number 3 on the list Cleveland being mostly white(95%+ I think) and not being much lower than London.

whstl 1y ago

I think the point is that was in vogue 5-10 years ago but now people are treating it as background noise due to overuse. Which sucks because there is real fascism in some parts of society. But DHH? I have no idea.

mijoharas 1y ago

Yeah, I don't really think it's addressed much in this article, but it's fairly clear from his posts. There is a thread here discussing it[0]. Essentially, he is posting articles[1] saying he wants fewer non-white people in London.[2]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303111 [1] https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303305

AOE9 1y ago
I was not aware of his opinions till yesterday, but I am still not sure how that is fascist, it might be something else but not fascist?
- mijoharas 1y ago
  Ahhh, sorry, I was focusing on the rascist side. In the article he supports Tommy Robinson[0], who I think most people in the UK would consider a fascist. He started the EDL (english defense league) which was a more violent extreme version of the BNP (british national party), which the ADL article I just linked describes as "fascist". I only found out about his views the other day too, so can't say I've noticed any articles that are explicitly fascist, but given what I've read and his support for fascist figures I wouldn't necessarily be surprised at the moment to be honest. You do raise a fair point though. [0] https://www.adl.org/resources/article/tommy-robinson-five-things-know https://www.adl.org/resources/article/tommy-robinson-five-th...
  - AOE9 1y ago
    I am from the UK and know about Tommy Robinson in passing. I read the ADL article and am struggling to see how he is a fascist, he is anti-islam and anti-immigrant but how does that translate to wanting a dictatorial leader, autocracy, forcible suppression etc like Russia?
    - frozen_tomato 1y ago