6 ms·

> The downside though is that these places will invariably turn into social crack houses, rather than the sunny smilely communal life ideals they are sold as.

> The downside though is that these places will invariably turn into social crack houses, rather than the sunny smilely communal life ideals they are sold as. Ok, get rid of them, now the streets are social crack houses? What are we to do now? Perhaps the woodchipper?

reactordev 1y ago
The Purge
gryfft 1y ago
You certainly don't want yucky undesirables to have shelter when homeless, to be fed when hungry, to be clothed when naked? Just because they happen to be the same species as you? Just because their blood is the same color as yours? Just because that's the moral teaching of every dominant religious system? No, some people should be homeless, and suffer, and be made to bear humiliation. It is self evident that the suffering of the marginalized is a social good which the people must not be deprived of.
- wat10000 1y ago
  You see, the only reason people are homless or otherwise down on their luck is because we make it so darned comfortable for them. If we can just make it sufficiently unpleasant, then they'll stop doing it.
  - weakfish 1y ago
    Is this sarcasm? This reads as incredibly malicious if not
    - wat10000 1y ago
      It is coming from me. It is a sentiment I see a lot of people sincerely espousing, unfortunately. (It's not stated quite so blatantly, but not far off.)
  - ReptileMan 1y ago
    Definitely true in the places with harsh winters.
  - xnx 1y ago
    Some people are just too lazy to be born in the right circumstances (geography, economy, parentage, skin color, physical ability, etc.) /s
zuminator 1y ago
Well there's your answer right there. Communal living is discouraged because our capitalist society uses the fear of homelessness to force people onto the work treadmill. Either join the rat race or it's the streets for you. And now living rough is being made illegal as well, so it's labor camps.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  > capitalist society uses the fear of homelessness to force people onto the work treadmill If we were living in pre-agrarian society you would either be on the "work treadmill" building/maintaining shelter and finding food or you would starve or freeze to death. Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Do you think animals spend most of their time looking for food because they're also operating under the capitalist system?
  - gryfft 1y ago
    > If we were living in pre-agrarian society you would either be on the "work treadmill" building/maintaining shelter and finding food or you would starve or freeze to death. It is my understanding that anthropology has shown that the people of prehistoric times cared for their sick, elderly, and infirm. > "From the very earliest times, we can see evidence that people who were unable to function were helped, looked after and given what care was available." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/878896381/ancient-bones-offer-clues-to-how-long-ago-humans-cared-for-the-vulnerable https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/8788963...
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      These were almost certainly family members, not strangers. Obviously you would care after your child/father/grandmother if they were infirm regardless of economic system. And even that is far from universal. Indigenous Amazon societies still practice infanticide[1] in times of scarcity or for infants that are infirm. [1] https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/kPn9cHW4RWKz94CjxDBw3ds/?format=html&lang=en https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/kPn9cHW4RWKz94CjxDBw3ds/?forma...
AlexandrB 1y ago
I think everyone in this thread should read https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassion https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassio... Addiction requires some level of coercive intervention to address. No one wants to admit this point so we keep arguing about whether we want to leave addicts to die in the street or in a crowded crack den. Neither really solves the problem.
- emseetech 1y ago
  Is it bleeding hearts preventing this or the unwillingness to properly fund it?
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    I'm guessing both. I think a lot of people get the ick about forcibly incarcerating people who are addicts or suffering from severe mental health issues[1]. I know I did when I was younger. We've moved to a more voluntary model of "mental health outreach" and the like. But this requires folks with compromised thought processes to regularly make a rational decision to seek help. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation
    - zozbot234 1y ago
      There's a huge difference between "suffering from severe mental issues" (which is very hard to establish an objective standard for) and engaging in outright anti-social, criminal behavior. The latter can most certainly result in incarceration or court-ordered treatment, and no one sensible will "get the ick" about that.
    - ashtakeaway 1y ago
      There is also deindividuation which occurs in homelessness. You are rarely referred to by your own name and ignored or practically invisible by everyone else except by those providing services. I was homeless for 6 years so this was apparent in a lot of that society. In red states there was a third cohort: those disowned by families for having a differing view than them so they got kicked out. It takes a minimum of one year to recover from the effects of homelessness, mentally. That process only begins after they are rehoused.

reactordev 1y ago

The Purge

gryfft 1y ago

You certainly don't want yucky undesirables to have shelter when homeless, to be fed when hungry, to be clothed when naked? Just because they happen to be the same species as you? Just because their blood is the same color as yours? Just because that's the moral teaching of every dominant religious system? No, some people should be homeless, and suffer, and be made to bear humiliation. It is self evident that the suffering of the marginalized is a social good which the people must not be deprived of.

wat10000 1y ago
You see, the only reason people are homless or otherwise down on their luck is because we make it so darned comfortable for them. If we can just make it sufficiently unpleasant, then they'll stop doing it.
- weakfish 1y ago
  Is this sarcasm? This reads as incredibly malicious if not
  - wat10000 1y ago
    It is coming from me. It is a sentiment I see a lot of people sincerely espousing, unfortunately. (It's not stated quite so blatantly, but not far off.)
- ReptileMan 1y ago
  Definitely true in the places with harsh winters.
- xnx 1y ago
  Some people are just too lazy to be born in the right circumstances (geography, economy, parentage, skin color, physical ability, etc.) /s

zuminator 1y ago

Well there's your answer right there. Communal living is discouraged because our capitalist society uses the fear of homelessness to force people onto the work treadmill. Either join the rat race or it's the streets for you. And now living rough is being made illegal as well, so it's labor camps.

AlexandrB 1y ago
> capitalist society uses the fear of homelessness to force people onto the work treadmill If we were living in pre-agrarian society you would either be on the "work treadmill" building/maintaining shelter and finding food or you would starve or freeze to death. Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Do you think animals spend most of their time looking for food because they're also operating under the capitalist system?
- gryfft 1y ago
  > If we were living in pre-agrarian society you would either be on the "work treadmill" building/maintaining shelter and finding food or you would starve or freeze to death. It is my understanding that anthropology has shown that the people of prehistoric times cared for their sick, elderly, and infirm. > "From the very earliest times, we can see evidence that people who were unable to function were helped, looked after and given what care was available." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/878896381/ancient-bones-offer-clues-to-how-long-ago-humans-cared-for-the-vulnerable https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/8788963...
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    These were almost certainly family members, not strangers. Obviously you would care after your child/father/grandmother if they were infirm regardless of economic system. And even that is far from universal. Indigenous Amazon societies still practice infanticide[1] in times of scarcity or for infants that are infirm. [1] https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/kPn9cHW4RWKz94CjxDBw3ds/?format=html&lang=en https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/kPn9cHW4RWKz94CjxDBw3ds/?forma...

AlexandrB 1y ago

I think everyone in this thread should read https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassion https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassio... Addiction requires some level of coercive intervention to address. No one wants to admit this point so we keep arguing about whether we want to leave addicts to die in the street or in a crowded crack den. Neither really solves the problem.

emseetech 1y ago
Is it bleeding hearts preventing this or the unwillingness to properly fund it?
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  I'm guessing both. I think a lot of people get the ick about forcibly incarcerating people who are addicts or suffering from severe mental health issues[1]. I know I did when I was younger. We've moved to a more voluntary model of "mental health outreach" and the like. But this requires folks with compromised thought processes to regularly make a rational decision to seek help. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation
  - zozbot234 1y ago
    There's a huge difference between "suffering from severe mental issues" (which is very hard to establish an objective standard for) and engaging in outright anti-social, criminal behavior. The latter can most certainly result in incarceration or court-ordered treatment, and no one sensible will "get the ick" about that.
  - ashtakeaway 1y ago
    There is also deindividuation which occurs in homelessness. You are rarely referred to by your own name and ignored or practically invisible by everyone else except by those providing services. I was homeless for 6 years so this was apparent in a lot of that society. In red states there was a third cohort: those disowned by families for having a differing view than them so they got kicked out. It takes a minimum of one year to recover from the effects of homelessness, mentally. That process only begins after they are rehoused.