7 ms·

I hope they recognize the stete of Assyrians, aramiac/Syriac, Chaldeans, Yizdi and every other indigenous nation in the middle east. As an Assyrian, my nation

I hope they recognize the stete of Assyrians, aramiac/Syriac, Chaldeans, Yizdi and every other indigenous nation in the middle east. As an Assyrian, my nation has been getting exterminated by Arabs, Turkish and Kurdish colonialist for millennia. We live in constant fear and I don't think we will exist in the next 30 years

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
TheGuyWhoCodes 1y ago
[flagged]
guizmo 1y ago
[flagged]
- bigyabai 1y ago
  No, this is a signal that ignoring the PLO was a humanitarian disaster. Israel was complicit in radicalizing Gaza and they should not be rewarded with Gaza's destruction after adopting indiscriminate terror tactics.
  - guizmo 1y ago
    That's plain wrong. The PLO was already there before October 7th. They didn't recognize a Palestinian statehood at that time. This is a victory for Hamas, not for the PLO. The timing is everything. Today Starmer finalized Yahya Sinwar plan. You can try to blame it on Israel but you're playing a music written by Sinwar.
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      Hamas exists because Israel chose to support them. They wouldn't be dealing with Sinwar had they not deliberately sabotaged the PLO, so of course we're in this scenario now! You can't get angry at the natural response to subverting democracy, same thing happened after the Iran 1953 coup. The only way to legitimize terrorism worldwide is to let Israel persist unpunished. Precision-striking civilians cannot be the basis for future conflict: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...
      - guizmo 1y ago
        They are rewarding and encouraging terrorism by doing this at this very moment. Do it before October 7th and that's another subject. Do it after Hamas has surrendered and that's also another subject. They chose to do it precisely now, giving Hamas the victory they desired.
        lossolo 1y ago
        They are opposing genocide. Doing nothing would reward what Israel is doing in Gaza now. This has not been about Hamas for a long time. Listen to what Israeli ministers are saying. There are ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders for what they did in Gaza. The UN has described their actions as genocide. All of this is happening two years AFTER October 7.
        guizmo 1y ago
        You don't punish Israel by giving a victory to Hamas. You punish the next victim of terrorism after you recognized that it works to make you obey. If killing as many palestinians as possible was the intention of the Israel military, they wouldn't need to go into Gaza city, they would bomb it without sending troops on the ground. The only reason for going on the ground and losing soldiers is to go dig out the Hamas. Having the intention of annihilating Hamas isn't genocidal.
        lossolo 1y ago
        Your whole argument is a copy paste from Isreal propaganda. They didn’t "give Hamas a victory", recognition is about Palestinians right to self determination and about rescuing a two state horizon that successive Israeli governments have all but buried. That’s exactly how the UK, Australia, and Canada framed it today: "recognition is tied to 1967 borders, a reformed, non Hamas Palestinian government, and reviving a political track", not rewarding terrorism. And no, this isn’t "ignoring Hamas". The ICC has warrants for Hamas figures and also for Netanyahu and Gallant for crimes during this war. You can reject the court, but the warrants exist and were recently upheld against attempts to quash them. That reflects how the law sees both sides’ conduct, not some applause for Hamas. Saying Israel "must" be acting humanely because it risked troops on the ground doesn’t answer the core allegations. International law doesn’t turn on whether an army also undertakes ground ops, it turns on starvation of civilians, collective punishment, disproportionate strikes and incitement. Those are precisely among the acts the ICC cites (starvation as a method of warfare), and why so many governments now insist the political endgame can’t be left to military force alone. If you want to deter terrorism, you need a credible political alternative that isolates militants rather than letting them claim they’re the only ones "delivering results". Recognition (explicitly conditioned on PA reform and excluding Hamas from governance)does that, it empowers non Hamas Palestinian institutions and puts real stakes on the table for a negotiated peace. That’s not "punishing Israel", it’s trying to prevent the next October 7 and the ongoing mass devastation in Gaza by giving both peoples a political path out. So recognizing Palestine now isn’t capitulation to Hamas, it’s an attempt to stop a cycle of atrocities that law, courts, and most of the world already recognize as intolerable and to anchor a two state outcome in something more than wishful thinking.
  - SilverElfin 1y ago
    Fundamentalist Islamists are responsible for radicalizing themselves. You’re victim blaming.
- gljiva 1y ago
  On the contrary: terrorism is the way to make the west make a symbolic political gesture AGAINST you. Their terrorism looks a bit less barbaric than what Hamas did, but the scale on which it's perpetrated is much larger and the dead babies don't care how it looked when they died. Hamas barbaric terrorist attack shouldn't give carte blanche for an even worse response
  - guizmo 1y ago
    Do you think Israel need to destroy Hamas after October 7th? If you do, what is your magical way to destroy Hamas without killing any civilian?
    - wqaatwt 1y ago
      Presumably not what Israel is doing now. I do fully agree with destroying Hamas. How is the current situation going to achieve that? Either they will have to eliminate the entire population of Gaza one way or the other (I can’t see any country that would be willing to accept all those people..) or as soon as they leave Hamas will get thousands and thousands of new recruits, due to obvious reasons. There is no better way to radicalize someone than blowing up their house and murdering their family.. But in large part the main goal of what is happening now is the preservation of Netanyahu’s political career (and that of his cronies). Just like when he was supporting Hamas to divide the Palestinians.
      - guizmo 1y ago
        I see it as Nazi Germany and the de-nazification process. Reconstruction and economic prosperity combined with re-education program lead by the allies occupying the different zones with a clear time-limited mandate. US occupation of Japan after WW2 might also provide some ideas on how it could work. I don't think letting the Nazi regime or the Japan regime survive the war would have been a great idea. I think the same about Hamas. I wonder what would have been the views in the West at the time if TikTok existed and people saw the war as vividly. I can only imagine how the Nazi propaganda would have worked out on the US for example.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

TheGuyWhoCodes 1y ago

[flagged]

guizmo 1y ago

[flagged]

bigyabai 1y ago
No, this is a signal that ignoring the PLO was a humanitarian disaster. Israel was complicit in radicalizing Gaza and they should not be rewarded with Gaza's destruction after adopting indiscriminate terror tactics.
- guizmo 1y ago
  That's plain wrong. The PLO was already there before October 7th. They didn't recognize a Palestinian statehood at that time. This is a victory for Hamas, not for the PLO. The timing is everything. Today Starmer finalized Yahya Sinwar plan. You can try to blame it on Israel but you're playing a music written by Sinwar.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    Hamas exists because Israel chose to support them. They wouldn't be dealing with Sinwar had they not deliberately sabotaged the PLO, so of course we're in this scenario now! You can't get angry at the natural response to subverting democracy, same thing happened after the Iran 1953 coup. The only way to legitimize terrorism worldwide is to let Israel persist unpunished. Precision-striking civilians cannot be the basis for future conflict: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...
    - guizmo 1y ago
      They are rewarding and encouraging terrorism by doing this at this very moment. Do it before October 7th and that's another subject. Do it after Hamas has surrendered and that's also another subject. They chose to do it precisely now, giving Hamas the victory they desired.
      - lossolo 1y ago
        They are opposing genocide. Doing nothing would reward what Israel is doing in Gaza now. This has not been about Hamas for a long time. Listen to what Israeli ministers are saying. There are ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders for what they did in Gaza. The UN has described their actions as genocide. All of this is happening two years AFTER October 7.
        guizmo 1y ago
        You don't punish Israel by giving a victory to Hamas. You punish the next victim of terrorism after you recognized that it works to make you obey. If killing as many palestinians as possible was the intention of the Israel military, they wouldn't need to go into Gaza city, they would bomb it without sending troops on the ground. The only reason for going on the ground and losing soldiers is to go dig out the Hamas. Having the intention of annihilating Hamas isn't genocidal.
        lossolo 1y ago
        Your whole argument is a copy paste from Isreal propaganda. They didn’t "give Hamas a victory", recognition is about Palestinians right to self determination and about rescuing a two state horizon that successive Israeli governments have all but buried. That’s exactly how the UK, Australia, and Canada framed it today: "recognition is tied to 1967 borders, a reformed, non Hamas Palestinian government, and reviving a political track", not rewarding terrorism. And no, this isn’t "ignoring Hamas". The ICC has warrants for Hamas figures and also for Netanyahu and Gallant for crimes during this war. You can reject the court, but the warrants exist and were recently upheld against attempts to quash them. That reflects how the law sees both sides’ conduct, not some applause for Hamas. Saying Israel "must" be acting humanely because it risked troops on the ground doesn’t answer the core allegations. International law doesn’t turn on whether an army also undertakes ground ops, it turns on starvation of civilians, collective punishment, disproportionate strikes and incitement. Those are precisely among the acts the ICC cites (starvation as a method of warfare), and why so many governments now insist the political endgame can’t be left to military force alone. If you want to deter terrorism, you need a credible political alternative that isolates militants rather than letting them claim they’re the only ones "delivering results". Recognition (explicitly conditioned on PA reform and excluding Hamas from governance)does that, it empowers non Hamas Palestinian institutions and puts real stakes on the table for a negotiated peace. That’s not "punishing Israel", it’s trying to prevent the next October 7 and the ongoing mass devastation in Gaza by giving both peoples a political path out. So recognizing Palestine now isn’t capitulation to Hamas, it’s an attempt to stop a cycle of atrocities that law, courts, and most of the world already recognize as intolerable and to anchor a two state outcome in something more than wishful thinking.
- SilverElfin 1y ago
  Fundamentalist Islamists are responsible for radicalizing themselves. You’re victim blaming.
gljiva 1y ago
On the contrary: terrorism is the way to make the west make a symbolic political gesture AGAINST you. Their terrorism looks a bit less barbaric than what Hamas did, but the scale on which it's perpetrated is much larger and the dead babies don't care how it looked when they died. Hamas barbaric terrorist attack shouldn't give carte blanche for an even worse response
- guizmo 1y ago
  Do you think Israel need to destroy Hamas after October 7th? If you do, what is your magical way to destroy Hamas without killing any civilian?
  - wqaatwt 1y ago
    Presumably not what Israel is doing now. I do fully agree with destroying Hamas. How is the current situation going to achieve that? Either they will have to eliminate the entire population of Gaza one way or the other (I can’t see any country that would be willing to accept all those people..) or as soon as they leave Hamas will get thousands and thousands of new recruits, due to obvious reasons. There is no better way to radicalize someone than blowing up their house and murdering their family.. But in large part the main goal of what is happening now is the preservation of Netanyahu’s political career (and that of his cronies). Just like when he was supporting Hamas to divide the Palestinians.
    - guizmo 1y ago
      I see it as Nazi Germany and the de-nazification process. Reconstruction and economic prosperity combined with re-education program lead by the allies occupying the different zones with a clear time-limited mandate. US occupation of Japan after WW2 might also provide some ideas on how it could work. I don't think letting the Nazi regime or the Japan regime survive the war would have been a great idea. I think the same about Hamas. I wonder what would have been the views in the West at the time if TikTok existed and people saw the war as vividly. I can only imagine how the Nazi propaganda would have worked out on the US for example.