7 ms·

> But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa This i

> But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa This is because ICE is being particularly tight lipped about those details. The New York Times got their hands on the records for 11 detainees. 6 on B1/B2 visas. 4 on 90-day waivers. 1 Unknown. ICE claims visa violations, but the records do not state what work the detainees were actually doing. This is especially relevant for the B1 visas, which do permit certain business activities (including applicable ones for this situation; Meetings, trainings, "installation, service, and repair of foreign-bought machinery". Of particular note is that in one case (out of these 11), ICE's records state there was no visa violation. The worker was deported anyway, forced into a "voluntary" departure. (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/business/economy/hyundai-raid-worker-visas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/business/economy/hyundai-...) Personal opinion: The degree to which hyundai may or may not have violated the law or operated within previously-tolerated gray areas remains to be seen. But the actions of ICE here are not those of a competent government organisation. There should be clear records, they should be able to readily answer press questions. And yet they don't. Worse still is that one person deported despite there being, even by ICE's own admission, no visa violation. Hard to assume good faith in incomplete or withheld records with such shit going on. And what are other foreign companies to do with this? "Move your manufacturing to America! Oh btw even if you follow all laws to the letter a local chud may deport your workers for being not white enough and ruin the entire project" is an interesting sales pitch.

3D30497420 1y ago
I imagine their argument will be "Well, they should have hired Americans", even if that is completely infeasible. Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC", "woke" policies, etc. Rinse and repeat.
- ivan_gammel 1y ago
  Their argument was Trump personally delaying the departure by one day to ask if anyone wants to stay and train American workers. I.e. they understand they messed up, but don’t want to admit any mistake.
  - sysguest 1y ago
    idk after this fiasco, Hyundai will have a big time trouble finding competitive workers who would want to go to the USA... I mean, prior to this, just a small possibility of being sent to the US was a big perk (job descriptions often highlighted this in bold fonts) Hence, companies would rotate people to hush complaints ("that guy gets to go to the US more than me!") now... if being sent could mean "you could be banned from entering/working in US", it's a big no-no Anyway, this will mean extra costs + less competitive people going to the USA (they should be forced to go, so... it'll probably be people with career dead-ends, whom americans might not want to 'learn from'...) the only fix to the issue: officially commit huuuuge working visa quota for s.koreans...
    - ivan_gammel 1y ago
      Everyone will adapt the same way as businesses adapted to local specifics in other countries. Russia was wild, China was hard, most of Africa is crazy, but if there are money, entrepreneurial energy will channel towards it. The real losers here are American consumers, because extra risks (or privileged access to market premiums for locals) will be included in price.
      - sysguest 1y ago
        ..except no one had to "adapt" -- those workers were supposed to go back after the set-up work is over, and Americans would get the jobs after the set-up work. this isn't some low-skill burger-flipping workers staying permanently and replacing a whole career of american citizens' jobs... US just had to turn a blind-eye, wait until those workers are done with the set-up and leave for good And now... things got ugly too quick -- I doubt even Trump wanted this. My pet theory is... this is a classic example of an political double-spy (Tori Branum) being "cooperatively passive-aggressive" (if party a shouts for A, get inside party a, and go to the extreme far-end of A to show A is bad -- though in reality, some middle-ground was what party a was initially aiming for)
  - nerpderp82 1y ago
    And arrested at gunpoint with helicopters flying overhead. This is only the start.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  > "Well, they should have hired Americans", even if that is completely infeasible Who determined it is infeasible and how was it determined? Show me the data and the process that lead to this conclusion. It's a car assembly plant, not a semiconductor fab that requires niche advanced degrees only available in Taiwan. Surely the required labor can be found across a country of 300 million people, or easily trained from other adjacent fields that have lost workers due to economic driven redundancies or who want to switch careers for whatever reason. >Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC" Why shouldn't they be blamed? They're the ones telling their voters at election times that there'll be a factory opening where they live and then the voters rejoice and think "woo-hoo, more jobs for us" but then the bureaucrats are like "well, actually, those jobs will go towards imported foreigners, not to you, because you're not qualified enough or some other bullshit reason" and then the voters will clap back with "well I'm a product of YOUR education system mf-er, so it's YOUR fault that I'm not qualified enough". If you were them, wouldn't you be pissed too? Funny how HN likes to criticize and gaslight people that it should be societally acceptable that foreigners being brough to take manufacturing jobs from locals, but they throw a hissy rage fit when H1Bs are being brough to the US to take their cushy tech jobs. Hypocrisy much? Edi: love the empty angry downvotes with no explanation and no counter arguments simply because my detailed argument goes against the narrative. Means I'm right.
  - tzs 1y ago
    > Who determined it determined it is infeasible how was it determined? It's a car assembly plant, not a semiconductor fab that requires niche advanced degrees only available in Taiwan It's not a car assembly plant. It's a battery factory. There is a car > Surely the required labor can be found across a country of 300 million people, or easily trained from other adjacent fields that have lost workers due to economic driven redundancies or who want to switch careers for whatever reason. When it is operational, probably. But right now it is being built and most of the Korean workers were engineers and technicians specializing in installing, testing, and bringing up highly technical specialized battery manufacturing equipment from Korea. > They're the ones telling their voters there'll be a factory opening where they live and then the voters rejoice and think "woo-hoo, more jobs for us" but then the bureaucrats are like "well, actually, those jobs will go towards imported foreigners, not to you". If you were them, wouldn't you be pissed too? These were temporary workers to install and bring up the equipment, and train US workers to operate it. Once running it was indeed going to employ mostly US workers, around 3000 directly and maybe another 5000 US jobs would be created in the domestic parts of its supply chain. There is also a car factory in the same campus. That is running and most of the workers are US citizens. Hyundai has emphasized training local workers.
lazide 1y ago
The point is not to be effective (at the stated goals), or follow the laws, or be competent at following the laws. The goal is to ‘look tough’ for the base, demonstrate the power to act without having to follow the laws, and overall - inspire fear. To extract concessions and inspire fear based loyalty. The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this?
- xtiansimon 1y ago
  > “The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this?” The weirdest part will be any middle class worker who doesn’t later say, _I was a supporter, because I believed he would bring back manufacturing and jobs. I was wrong._ Everyone else is a cultist or wealthy.
  - lazide 1y ago
    The last couple guys in recent memory who did this kind of thing weren’t (actually) good for wealthy people either. Germany and Italy didn’t exactly do well in the whole ‘preservation of Capital’ angle at the end of the war.
    - xtiansimon 1y ago
      > "...weren’t (actually) good for wealthy people either..." Especially if you're invested in adding to the US's electrical capacity: GOP Bill Adds Surprise Tax That Could Cripple Wind and Solar (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44421749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44421749)
      - lazide 1y ago
        I was more referring to torches and pitchforks (or tanks and bombs) when the angry ‘others’ eventually get enough momentum while fighting back.
- LexiMax 1y ago
  > The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this? It's possible to understand this perfectly and yet prefer to try and argue a more reasonable interpretation, hoping whoever you're talking to won't pick up on bad faith. What I really don't get is what makes them so convinced that the state apparatus they're such a fan of won't be turned on them? Even if you look like you belong, say the right things, hold the right opinions, you never know when you're going to accidentally get on the bad side of someone who is willing to tell a convincing lie or has connections. They're either not the brightest bulb in the shed, or they're not actually from the US and have no skin in the game.
tim333 1y ago
I had to look up chud. Seems to originate from a movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEqNiFAhpSU&t=63s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEqNiFAhpSU&t=63s
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

3D30497420 1y ago

I imagine their argument will be "Well, they should have hired Americans", even if that is completely infeasible. Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC", "woke" policies, etc. Rinse and repeat.

ivan_gammel 1y ago
Their argument was Trump personally delaying the departure by one day to ask if anyone wants to stay and train American workers. I.e. they understand they messed up, but don’t want to admit any mistake.
- sysguest 1y ago
  idk after this fiasco, Hyundai will have a big time trouble finding competitive workers who would want to go to the USA... I mean, prior to this, just a small possibility of being sent to the US was a big perk (job descriptions often highlighted this in bold fonts) Hence, companies would rotate people to hush complaints ("that guy gets to go to the US more than me!") now... if being sent could mean "you could be banned from entering/working in US", it's a big no-no Anyway, this will mean extra costs + less competitive people going to the USA (they should be forced to go, so... it'll probably be people with career dead-ends, whom americans might not want to 'learn from'...) the only fix to the issue: officially commit huuuuge working visa quota for s.koreans...
  - ivan_gammel 1y ago
    Everyone will adapt the same way as businesses adapted to local specifics in other countries. Russia was wild, China was hard, most of Africa is crazy, but if there are money, entrepreneurial energy will channel towards it. The real losers here are American consumers, because extra risks (or privileged access to market premiums for locals) will be included in price.
    - sysguest 1y ago
      ..except no one had to "adapt" -- those workers were supposed to go back after the set-up work is over, and Americans would get the jobs after the set-up work. this isn't some low-skill burger-flipping workers staying permanently and replacing a whole career of american citizens' jobs... US just had to turn a blind-eye, wait until those workers are done with the set-up and leave for good And now... things got ugly too quick -- I doubt even Trump wanted this. My pet theory is... this is a classic example of an political double-spy (Tori Branum) being "cooperatively passive-aggressive" (if party a shouts for A, get inside party a, and go to the extreme far-end of A to show A is bad -- though in reality, some middle-ground was what party a was initially aiming for)
- nerpderp82 1y ago
  And arrested at gunpoint with helicopters flying overhead. This is only the start.
FirmwareBurner 1y ago
> "Well, they should have hired Americans", even if that is completely infeasible Who determined it is infeasible and how was it determined? Show me the data and the process that lead to this conclusion. It's a car assembly plant, not a semiconductor fab that requires niche advanced degrees only available in Taiwan. Surely the required labor can be found across a country of 300 million people, or easily trained from other adjacent fields that have lost workers due to economic driven redundancies or who want to switch careers for whatever reason. >Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC" Why shouldn't they be blamed? They're the ones telling their voters at election times that there'll be a factory opening where they live and then the voters rejoice and think "woo-hoo, more jobs for us" but then the bureaucrats are like "well, actually, those jobs will go towards imported foreigners, not to you, because you're not qualified enough or some other bullshit reason" and then the voters will clap back with "well I'm a product of YOUR education system mf-er, so it's YOUR fault that I'm not qualified enough". If you were them, wouldn't you be pissed too? Funny how HN likes to criticize and gaslight people that it should be societally acceptable that foreigners being brough to take manufacturing jobs from locals, but they throw a hissy rage fit when H1Bs are being brough to the US to take their cushy tech jobs. Hypocrisy much? Edi: love the empty angry downvotes with no explanation and no counter arguments simply because my detailed argument goes against the narrative. Means I'm right.
- tzs 1y ago
  > Who determined it determined it is infeasible how was it determined? It's a car assembly plant, not a semiconductor fab that requires niche advanced degrees only available in Taiwan It's not a car assembly plant. It's a battery factory. There is a car > Surely the required labor can be found across a country of 300 million people, or easily trained from other adjacent fields that have lost workers due to economic driven redundancies or who want to switch careers for whatever reason. When it is operational, probably. But right now it is being built and most of the Korean workers were engineers and technicians specializing in installing, testing, and bringing up highly technical specialized battery manufacturing equipment from Korea. > They're the ones telling their voters there'll be a factory opening where they live and then the voters rejoice and think "woo-hoo, more jobs for us" but then the bureaucrats are like "well, actually, those jobs will go towards imported foreigners, not to you". If you were them, wouldn't you be pissed too? These were temporary workers to install and bring up the equipment, and train US workers to operate it. Once running it was indeed going to employ mostly US workers, around 3000 directly and maybe another 5000 US jobs would be created in the domestic parts of its supply chain. There is also a car factory in the same campus. That is running and most of the workers are US citizens. Hyundai has emphasized training local workers.

lazide 1y ago

The point is not to be effective (at the stated goals), or follow the laws, or be competent at following the laws. The goal is to ‘look tough’ for the base, demonstrate the power to act without having to follow the laws, and overall - inspire fear. To extract concessions and inspire fear based loyalty. The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this?

xtiansimon 1y ago
> “The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this?” The weirdest part will be any middle class worker who doesn’t later say, _I was a supporter, because I believed he would bring back manufacturing and jobs. I was wrong._ Everyone else is a cultist or wealthy.
- lazide 1y ago
  The last couple guys in recent memory who did this kind of thing weren’t (actually) good for wealthy people either. Germany and Italy didn’t exactly do well in the whole ‘preservation of Capital’ angle at the end of the war.
  - xtiansimon 1y ago
    > "...weren’t (actually) good for wealthy people either..." Especially if you're invested in adding to the US's electrical capacity: GOP Bill Adds Surprise Tax That Could Cripple Wind and Solar (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44421749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44421749)
    - lazide 1y ago
      I was more referring to torches and pitchforks (or tanks and bombs) when the angry ‘others’ eventually get enough momentum while fighting back.
LexiMax 1y ago
> The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this? It's possible to understand this perfectly and yet prefer to try and argue a more reasonable interpretation, hoping whoever you're talking to won't pick up on bad faith. What I really don't get is what makes them so convinced that the state apparatus they're such a fan of won't be turned on them? Even if you look like you belong, say the right things, hold the right opinions, you never know when you're going to accidentally get on the bad side of someone who is willing to tell a convincing lie or has connections. They're either not the brightest bulb in the shed, or they're not actually from the US and have no skin in the game.

tim333 1y ago

I had to look up chud. Seems to originate from a movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEqNiFAhpSU&t=63s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEqNiFAhpSU&t=63s

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]