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I’ve been confused by reading the articles and comments on this matter. Are they in the country illegally ? Regardless I am glad the workers get to go home. If

by pylua 1y ago

I’ve been confused by reading the articles and comments on this matter. Are they in the country illegally ? Regardless I am glad the workers get to go home. If it is illegal I’d imagine the company should be at fault.

pnw 1y ago
Yes, they all lacked work visas. Allegedly Hyundai subcontracted out the work to third parties who didn't bother to get work visas for their employees. Maybe Korean companies are used to getting away with that kind of thing? Seems fairly short sighted given the current focus on immigration.
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  Who cares! They were building a factory in the US which is what we want other countries to do. This was done for theatre effect.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  Also short-sighted: pissing off our international partners that we would rather build factories in the U.S.
  - pylua 1y ago
    Assuming that they are in illegally, the U.S. is the party that should be upset. If you are going to do business in the U.S. then you need to follow us laws.
    - JKCalhoun 1y ago
      Someone trying to be diplomatic might, for example, allow them a window of time within which to apply to extend their visas.
      - pylua 1y ago
        My reading of the situation is that it was done maliciously or with negligence. Extending the visa a non work visa doesn’t make any sense. I have sympathy for the workers. In reality it is the immmigration attorneys or other members of the company who need to be sanctioned.
      - Redoubts 1y ago
        Why? they’re being subsidized to hire Americans, not exploit foreign undocumented workers
      - refurb 1y ago
        They never had valid work visas in the first place.
        JKCalhoun 1y ago
        I was speaking with regards to this from the article: "…others had entered the country legally but had expired visas…"
    - yongjik 1y ago
      You can say you're (rightfully) upset, without throwing employees of a major investor onto a jail without functioning toilets. The problem is that the US is sending deeply conflicting messages. Does it want Hyundai's investment or not? It's not that Hyundai needs to build a factory in the middle of nowhere in Georgia.
      - pylua 1y ago
        I’m having trouble following this argument. Are you saying Hyundai built this factory expecting to gain nothing in return ? It’s only logical that if you operate in the U.S. you follow basic U.S. laws.
      - pnw 1y ago
        They are not Hyundai employees. Hyundai subcontracted the work out, and the subcontractors failed to file for work visas. The problem is Hyundai chose their subcontractors very poorly.
        pavel_lishin 1y ago
        The meaning of the comment of the person you're replying to doesn't significantly change if you replace "employees of" to "contractors of". You're picking at nits.
      - runsWphotons 1y ago
        It wants Hyundai's investment and it wants to create American jobs and also have Hyundai follow the laws. The extremity of the right is fueled by an apparently prevalent reluctance to enforce any rules.
        alchemical_piss 1y ago
        [dead]
      - throwawaymaths 1y ago
        So companies should be able to bribe the government and skirt laws at their expedience?
  - pnw 1y ago
    South Korea deports Canadians and Americans regularly for not obtaining the correct visas. https://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/we-are-scared-and-we-feel-abandoned-teachers-bc-certified-school-south-korea-plead-help.html https://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/we-are-scared-and-we-...
    - pavel_lishin 1y ago
      I appreciate you linking a source, but this is a one-time story about 14 teachers from 2017.
    - sndean 1y ago
      I don’t doubt that some Americans are deported each year from South Korea but I was unable to find any examples in the news other than this one in 2017. I wonder how regular it really is, or maybe it doesn’t get reported by any news source?
    - orwin 1y ago
      Do they cuff and detain them publicly? I mean, I understand public humiliation is something Usians like, but was it necessary here? To me, punishing the workers is so unimaginably cruel and pointless...
- detaro 1y ago
  > Yes, they all lacked work visas. Source?
  - pnw 1y ago
    This press conference is the source of all of the articles. https://www.youtube.com/live/AD7n_nSOorU https://www.youtube.com/live/AD7n_nSOorU 4:30 Describes the search warrants and arrests. 5:10 "475 were illegally present in the United States" 6:25 "Majority were Korean nationals" No criminal charges yet. It's an ongoing investigation.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - PhantomHour 1y ago
      > 5:10 "475 were illegally present in the United States" Not quite; The figure includes those with visa. "Illegally present in the United States or in violation of their presence in the united states, working unlawfully" This also leaves open the question of what "violation of the visa" entails here. They may well have been working within their visas, only for ICE to arbitrarily rule otherwise.
      - pnw 1y ago
        He specifically mentions illegal entry and visa waiver, neither of which are work visas.
        ivewonyoung 1y ago
        It gets a little confusing because ESTA(which South Koreans are eligible for) is valid for both tourist and business use, and is a visa waiver. As this comment[1] states with an official source: > A B-1 visa may be granted to specialized workers going to the United States to install, service, or repair commercial or industrial equipment or machinery purchased from a company outside of the United States, or to train U.S. workers to perform such services. Maybe the business use of ESTA also covers the above use cases? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45164008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45164008
- Ancapistani 1y ago
  Hyundai has a history of allowing - either knowingly/intentionally or not - subcontractors to violate US labor law. Example from 2022: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Alabama_child_labor_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Alabama_child_labor_al...
pavel_lishin 1y ago
Th authorities are very vague in their statements, on purpose. According to the article, 450 were arrested, over 300 are South Korean, but the article makes it impossible to tell who entered illegally, and who had incorrect visas or expired ones, and their various nationalities.
- Cyph0n 1y ago
  What is clear is that this has escalated to a diplomatic crisis at the highest levels on the Korean side. Definitely bodes well for future interest in investing in advanced manufacturing in the US.
karmasimida 1y ago
It seems to me Hyundai is at fault here, or they just outright organized this. Koreans can come to US without visa, but that visa doesn’t allow you to work. That means no hands on work at the site. Considering the raids happening at the factory itself, I would really be surprised if they are only there to receive training by their US counterparts, which seems pretty unlikely. As immigrants, our visa status has been tracked by day one, and constantly validated. It boggles my mind why Hyundai didn’t just pay to apply for H2B visa, to invite those workers to come here legally. Yeah it takes time and money but it is the correct thing to do

by pylua 1y ago

pnw 1y ago

Yes, they all lacked work visas. Allegedly Hyundai subcontracted out the work to third parties who didn't bother to get work visas for their employees. Maybe Korean companies are used to getting away with that kind of thing? Seems fairly short sighted given the current focus on immigration.

insane_dreamer 1y ago
Who cares! They were building a factory in the US which is what we want other countries to do. This was done for theatre effect.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
Also short-sighted: pissing off our international partners that we would rather build factories in the U.S.
- pylua 1y ago
  Assuming that they are in illegally, the U.S. is the party that should be upset. If you are going to do business in the U.S. then you need to follow us laws.
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    Someone trying to be diplomatic might, for example, allow them a window of time within which to apply to extend their visas.
    - pylua 1y ago
      My reading of the situation is that it was done maliciously or with negligence. Extending the visa a non work visa doesn’t make any sense. I have sympathy for the workers. In reality it is the immmigration attorneys or other members of the company who need to be sanctioned.
    - Redoubts 1y ago
      Why? they’re being subsidized to hire Americans, not exploit foreign undocumented workers
    - refurb 1y ago
      They never had valid work visas in the first place.
      - JKCalhoun 1y ago
        I was speaking with regards to this from the article: "…others had entered the country legally but had expired visas…"
  - yongjik 1y ago
    You can say you're (rightfully) upset, without throwing employees of a major investor onto a jail without functioning toilets. The problem is that the US is sending deeply conflicting messages. Does it want Hyundai's investment or not? It's not that Hyundai needs to build a factory in the middle of nowhere in Georgia.
    - pylua 1y ago
      I’m having trouble following this argument. Are you saying Hyundai built this factory expecting to gain nothing in return ? It’s only logical that if you operate in the U.S. you follow basic U.S. laws.
    - pnw 1y ago
      They are not Hyundai employees. Hyundai subcontracted the work out, and the subcontractors failed to file for work visas. The problem is Hyundai chose their subcontractors very poorly.
      - pavel_lishin 1y ago
        The meaning of the comment of the person you're replying to doesn't significantly change if you replace "employees of" to "contractors of". You're picking at nits.
    - runsWphotons 1y ago
      It wants Hyundai's investment and it wants to create American jobs and also have Hyundai follow the laws. The extremity of the right is fueled by an apparently prevalent reluctance to enforce any rules.
      - alchemical_piss 1y ago
        [dead]
    - throwawaymaths 1y ago
      So companies should be able to bribe the government and skirt laws at their expedience?
- pnw 1y ago
  South Korea deports Canadians and Americans regularly for not obtaining the correct visas. https://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/we-are-scared-and-we-feel-abandoned-teachers-bc-certified-school-south-korea-plead-help.html https://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/we-are-scared-and-we-...
  - pavel_lishin 1y ago
    I appreciate you linking a source, but this is a one-time story about 14 teachers from 2017.
  - sndean 1y ago
    I don’t doubt that some Americans are deported each year from South Korea but I was unable to find any examples in the news other than this one in 2017. I wonder how regular it really is, or maybe it doesn’t get reported by any news source?
  - orwin 1y ago
    Do they cuff and detain them publicly? I mean, I understand public humiliation is something Usians like, but was it necessary here? To me, punishing the workers is so unimaginably cruel and pointless...
detaro 1y ago
> Yes, they all lacked work visas. Source?
- pnw 1y ago
  This press conference is the source of all of the articles. https://www.youtube.com/live/AD7n_nSOorU https://www.youtube.com/live/AD7n_nSOorU 4:30 Describes the search warrants and arrests. 5:10 "475 were illegally present in the United States" 6:25 "Majority were Korean nationals" No criminal charges yet. It's an ongoing investigation.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - PhantomHour 1y ago
    > 5:10 "475 were illegally present in the United States" Not quite; The figure includes those with visa. "Illegally present in the United States or in violation of their presence in the united states, working unlawfully" This also leaves open the question of what "violation of the visa" entails here. They may well have been working within their visas, only for ICE to arbitrarily rule otherwise.
    - pnw 1y ago
      He specifically mentions illegal entry and visa waiver, neither of which are work visas.
      - ivewonyoung 1y ago
        It gets a little confusing because ESTA(which South Koreans are eligible for) is valid for both tourist and business use, and is a visa waiver. As this comment[1] states with an official source: > A B-1 visa may be granted to specialized workers going to the United States to install, service, or repair commercial or industrial equipment or machinery purchased from a company outside of the United States, or to train U.S. workers to perform such services. Maybe the business use of ESTA also covers the above use cases? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45164008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45164008
Ancapistani 1y ago
Hyundai has a history of allowing - either knowingly/intentionally or not - subcontractors to violate US labor law. Example from 2022: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Alabama_child_labor_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Alabama_child_labor_al...

pavel_lishin 1y ago

Th authorities are very vague in their statements, on purpose. According to the article, 450 were arrested, over 300 are South Korean, but the article makes it impossible to tell who entered illegally, and who had incorrect visas or expired ones, and their various nationalities.

Cyph0n 1y ago
What is clear is that this has escalated to a diplomatic crisis at the highest levels on the Korean side. Definitely bodes well for future interest in investing in advanced manufacturing in the US.

karmasimida 1y ago

It seems to me Hyundai is at fault here, or they just outright organized this. Koreans can come to US without visa, but that visa doesn’t allow you to work. That means no hands on work at the site. Considering the raids happening at the factory itself, I would really be surprised if they are only there to receive training by their US counterparts, which seems pretty unlikely. As immigrants, our visa status has been tracked by day one, and constantly validated. It boggles my mind why Hyundai didn’t just pay to apply for H2B visa, to invite those workers to come here legally. Yeah it takes time and money but it is the correct thing to do