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The keyboards have full NKRO support and are fully mappable with QMK firmware, plus they offer blank key caps AND a macro or numpad input module. That feels lik

The keyboards have full NKRO support and are fully mappable with QMK firmware, plus they offer blank key caps AND a macro or numpad input module. That feels like plenty of leadership to me - that's unheard of in any other laptop. Can't please everyone I guess.

eviks 1y ago
If they designed their keyboard ergonomically, they wouldn't need numpad modules. But yes, can't please everyone, too many people with low standards easily pleasable
- illiac786 1y ago
  Bit pedantic… being satisfied with less is a quality, let’s not forget this.
  - copperx 1y ago
    Positive or negative quality?
    - illiac786 1y ago
      To me, it’s a positive quality.
      - eviks 1y ago
        Universally? Even if it leads to decades of rsi-health-dangerously poor manufacturing quality?
        illiac786 1y ago
        Depends on the context, but generally yes. It’s not new, it’s called asceticism, frugality, many other names I guess. Also, asking for more is very rarely a form of altruism: no one asks for more to avoid (others) “decades of rsi-health-dangerously poor manufacturing quality”, it’s generally for one’s own benefit, nothing more.
        eviks 1y ago
        Well, you know the context: it's bad keyboards that cause health issues. Asceticism etc doesn't fit, such a person wouldn't even buy this new premium laptop model. The altruism angle is also puzzling - is it bad to look after your own health or what?
        illiac786 1y ago
        Ah, my mistake, you were talking about _your_ decades. Well then, back to standard answer then: pick another laptop. I really thought for a moment we were discussing the general crowd and why they should/could/must insist on ergonomic keyboards in general, but we misunderstood each other it seems.
        eviks 1y ago
        Nah, your mistake it much more basic - you confuse me with everyone or "is very rarely" with "never". > back to standard answer then This is not an answer to any of the questions. But you're right, standards of conversations are just as bad as those of hardware manufacturers > I really thought for a moment we were discussing the general crowd I was, but then you've made up a world where no one cares about anyone else, so tried to wipe that reality off your conceptual map.
        illiac786 1y ago
        I’m just not following you at all, sorry. Just pick another laptop if this one doesn’t fit your needs, instead of bashing it.
- KyleBerezin 1y ago
  As someone who has been stuck with 13 inch laptops for years, and loves numpads, this is categorically false. With even a day of practice you will massively overtake your numerical typing speed with a numpad. If you have issues with it, you can try putting the numpad module on the left. Some people swear by it.
  - eviks 1y ago
    > categorically false. With even a day of practice you will massively overtake your numerical typing speed with a numpad. Speaking of categorically false... How would you even know if you if you've been stuck with the default bad layout on 13 inch? With a good layout your laptop would have keys laid out in a way that is even more comfortable than those of a standard standalone numpad (which ignores the difference in finger length), so your claim that worse layout is magically massively faster is just categorically implausible. You're just likely confused because you compare numpad to the unergonomic horizontal 1234567890 number layer, but no, you'll have a bumps numpad layer at your fingertips, so count moving your hands right to a separate module and returning back left into typing speed as well...
    - KyleBerezin 1y ago
      I also own an external keyboard. Life dictates that I do most of my work outside of my home or office though so most of my typing gets done on the integrated keyboard. Also, are you talking about an ergo keyboard? That is an unreasonable critique, what laptop has an ergo keyboard? I don't use a numbpad when I need to write a single '2' mid sentence. I use it for stuff like ip addresses, that whole 5-8 region feels so awkward, and I hate sliding my hands that far up the palmrest.
account42 1y ago
> Can't please everyone I guess. This is such a lame response to valid criticism. Key remapping is not a feature that you need hardware support for and neither are macros - both can be done in the OS and/or user-space software. Different prints on key caps are also not important at all since you shouldn't need them in the first place and hardly a response to someone being unhappy with the physical keyboard layout. So basically you're saying that because Framework already provides the easy parts that the user could already do in software now no one is allowed to complain about the physical layout that users cannot alter.
- rkangel 1y ago
  Did you miss: > numpad input module You can literally add a physical numpad if you want: https://frame.work/gb/en/products/16-numpad?v=FRAKDM0001 https://frame.work/gb/en/products/16-numpad?v=FRAKDM0001

eviks 1y ago

If they designed their keyboard ergonomically, they wouldn't need numpad modules. But yes, can't please everyone, too many people with low standards easily pleasable

illiac786 1y ago
Bit pedantic… being satisfied with less is a quality, let’s not forget this.
- copperx 1y ago
  Positive or negative quality?
  - illiac786 1y ago
    To me, it’s a positive quality.
    - eviks 1y ago
      Universally? Even if it leads to decades of rsi-health-dangerously poor manufacturing quality?
      - illiac786 1y ago
        Depends on the context, but generally yes. It’s not new, it’s called asceticism, frugality, many other names I guess. Also, asking for more is very rarely a form of altruism: no one asks for more to avoid (others) “decades of rsi-health-dangerously poor manufacturing quality”, it’s generally for one’s own benefit, nothing more.
        eviks 1y ago
        Well, you know the context: it's bad keyboards that cause health issues. Asceticism etc doesn't fit, such a person wouldn't even buy this new premium laptop model. The altruism angle is also puzzling - is it bad to look after your own health or what?
        illiac786 1y ago
        Ah, my mistake, you were talking about _your_ decades. Well then, back to standard answer then: pick another laptop. I really thought for a moment we were discussing the general crowd and why they should/could/must insist on ergonomic keyboards in general, but we misunderstood each other it seems.
        eviks 1y ago
        Nah, your mistake it much more basic - you confuse me with everyone or "is very rarely" with "never". > back to standard answer then This is not an answer to any of the questions. But you're right, standards of conversations are just as bad as those of hardware manufacturers > I really thought for a moment we were discussing the general crowd I was, but then you've made up a world where no one cares about anyone else, so tried to wipe that reality off your conceptual map.
        illiac786 1y ago
        I’m just not following you at all, sorry. Just pick another laptop if this one doesn’t fit your needs, instead of bashing it.
KyleBerezin 1y ago
As someone who has been stuck with 13 inch laptops for years, and loves numpads, this is categorically false. With even a day of practice you will massively overtake your numerical typing speed with a numpad. If you have issues with it, you can try putting the numpad module on the left. Some people swear by it.
- eviks 1y ago
  > categorically false. With even a day of practice you will massively overtake your numerical typing speed with a numpad. Speaking of categorically false... How would you even know if you if you've been stuck with the default bad layout on 13 inch? With a good layout your laptop would have keys laid out in a way that is even more comfortable than those of a standard standalone numpad (which ignores the difference in finger length), so your claim that worse layout is magically massively faster is just categorically implausible. You're just likely confused because you compare numpad to the unergonomic horizontal 1234567890 number layer, but no, you'll have a bumps numpad layer at your fingertips, so count moving your hands right to a separate module and returning back left into typing speed as well...
  - KyleBerezin 1y ago
    I also own an external keyboard. Life dictates that I do most of my work outside of my home or office though so most of my typing gets done on the integrated keyboard. Also, are you talking about an ergo keyboard? That is an unreasonable critique, what laptop has an ergo keyboard? I don't use a numbpad when I need to write a single '2' mid sentence. I use it for stuff like ip addresses, that whole 5-8 region feels so awkward, and I hate sliding my hands that far up the palmrest.

account42 1y ago

> Can't please everyone I guess. This is such a lame response to valid criticism. Key remapping is not a feature that you need hardware support for and neither are macros - both can be done in the OS and/or user-space software. Different prints on key caps are also not important at all since you shouldn't need them in the first place and hardly a response to someone being unhappy with the physical keyboard layout. So basically you're saying that because Framework already provides the easy parts that the user could already do in software now no one is allowed to complain about the physical layout that users cannot alter.

rkangel 1y ago
Did you miss: > numpad input module You can literally add a physical numpad if you want: https://frame.work/gb/en/products/16-numpad?v=FRAKDM0001 https://frame.work/gb/en/products/16-numpad?v=FRAKDM0001