7 ms·

Showing ID to vote wouldn't be controversial in the US if states made it easy to obtain a valid ID for the purpose. But states routinely use it as a backdoor me

Showing ID to vote wouldn't be controversial in the US if states made it easy to obtain a valid ID for the purpose. But states routinely use it as a backdoor mechanism to prevent people from voting.

cosmic_cheese 1y ago
To add to this, there’s friction from the citizen side of things with a relatively high level of distrust in government that’s been present for decades. If you go out deep enough into the boonies for instance you can probably find people who still don’t have government ID of any type despite being native born and prefer to keep it that way.
- crooked-v 1y ago
  Also see the Amish, who explicitly avoid photo IDs for religious reasons, generally substituting notarized statements for them for business purposes.
antonymoose 1y ago
In my state I bring two forms of ID and a couple of bills to the DMV and I’m issued a same-day license? How does that compare to a notoriously unfriendly nation like Germany? In any case, my understanding is virtually any nation in Central and South America requires identification to vote. If the third-world poverty stricken nations make it work there is no reason the rich United States cannot.
- erghjunk 1y ago
  assuming that you're talking about a driver's license, you're leaving out the important steps of passing driving tests and, more importantly, having a car.
  - antonymoose 1y ago
    My state (as do most?) offer a state issued photo ID at the DMV, none of this driving nonsense is required.
    - Jtsummers 1y ago
      In GA, to pick on the state I was living in when they started instituting these rules, they cut DMV locations at the same time as they started adding the ID requirements (or trying to, I moved and don't know the current status of their rules). Yes, the state ID was free, but their actions at the same time, intended or not, made it harder for people to get the free ID.
  - ClarityJones 1y ago
    Oh, are there states that don't issue IDs? In mine you can skip that stuff and just get the ID.
- arp242 1y ago
  You can't use your driving license under the proposed SAVE act, as it's not proof of citizenship. Only a few states offer "extended" driving licenses, which do, but also need to be requested separately in most (or all?) states that offer them IIRC. For every other state: you will have to use a passport, birth certificate, or a separate state ID card.
  - hnuser123456 1y ago
    I renewed my license 4 years ago and got an enhanced license with no special request.
    - tenuousemphasis 1y ago
      OK now we just need to find out how well it works for thousands of other people from different states, social classes, and skin colors and then we'll have some real data.
    - xboxnolifes 1y ago
      Enhanced licenses only exist in 5 states.
  - zzrrt 1y ago
    > Only a few states offer "extended" driving licenses, which do [prove your citizenship] If anyone is wondering, an enhanced drivers license is not the same as a "REAL ID". A "REAL ID" does not indicate citizenship status, which the SAVE act requires. https://campaignlegal.org/sites/default/files/2025-01/CLC%20Fact%20Sheet%20on%20the%20SAVE%20Act_0.pdf https://campaignlegal.org/sites/default/files/2025-01/CLC%20... https://www.sos.mn.gov/media/zzia53yr/033125-secretaries-of-state-letter-on-the-save-act.pdf https://www.sos.mn.gov/media/zzia53yr/033125-secretaries-of-... https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they
- crooked-v 1y ago
  "Same-day" doesn't work if you live somewhere that the DMV is only open during work hours, has lines longer than 8 hours (https://dmvwaittimes.org/north-carolina https://dmvwaittimes.org/north-carolina), or is literally only open four days a year (https://trust.dot.state.wi.us/cscfinder/cityCountySearch.do?city=Sauk+City https://trust.dot.state.wi.us/cscfinder/cityCountySearch.do?...).
- woodrowbarlow 1y ago
  another angle is: if the ID costs money, no matter how trivial the amount, then it is effectively a ballot fee.
  - ImJamal 1y ago
    All states that require voter id have free ids that work for voting.
    - myvoiceismypass 1y ago
      And how accessible are said ids in every state?
      - ImJamal 1y ago
        No clue, but not at all relevant to what I was responding to. Please don't move to goal posts.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- skoskie 1y ago
  And in my state I needed more documentation for an ID than was required for my passport. It varies wildly.
blindriver 1y ago
[flagged]
frakt0x90 1y ago
There's an excellent documentary by Channel 5 (formerly All Gas No Brakes) where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGrKJofDaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGrKJofDaw
- gruez 1y ago
  >where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible. That seems like the worst case scenario though? I don't think homeless people should be disenfranchised, but at the same time it's unfair to pretend the typical experience of getting a voter id resembles whatever the TV show is depicting either.
  - pogue 1y ago
    It can be incredibly difficult and time consuming to get a birth certificate if you have lost yours. If you work full time, you'd have to take off for an unknown time period (typically multiple hours) to stand in line at a court or other facility that provides them. In some cases, people just don't have the option to take that time off and/or lack vehicle access to get there. Then there's a fee to get a copy, lots of forms you and your relatives have to sign & get notarized. Finally, if you're successful, then you get the opportunity to make an appointment to wait at line at a DMV location. In Texas, they have severely limited hours since COVID. I think it's become significantly worse since COVID & REAL ID requirements, but it's always been a Kafkaesque nightmare to try & get the proof of who you legally are. And, not to mention, it's a paper form that you can't just pull up digitally, so if you don't take precautions, it's easy to misplace.
    - assword 1y ago
      Oh man the birth certificate thing is ridiculous. I had to get a new Id from scratch recently and it was the most painful process The state I was born in decided to outsource the handling of birth certificates to some shit tier consulting firm. In order to get my birth certificate shipped to me, I would have to wait over six months simply to process my request (ostensibly due to Covid, but this was 2023). It would have been quicker for me to walk hundreds of miles and get it in person. Thankfully I lucked out and found an old one. Just a reminder that this is the shit politicians mean when they talk about privatizing government services.
simonsarris 1y ago
In what state is getting an ID difficult?

Showing ID to vote wouldn't be controversial in the US if states made it easy to obtain a valid ID for the purpose. But states routinely use it as a backdoor mechanism to prevent people from voting.

cosmic_cheese 1y ago

To add to this, there’s friction from the citizen side of things with a relatively high level of distrust in government that’s been present for decades. If you go out deep enough into the boonies for instance you can probably find people who still don’t have government ID of any type despite being native born and prefer to keep it that way.

crooked-v 1y ago
Also see the Amish, who explicitly avoid photo IDs for religious reasons, generally substituting notarized statements for them for business purposes.

antonymoose 1y ago

In my state I bring two forms of ID and a couple of bills to the DMV and I’m issued a same-day license? How does that compare to a notoriously unfriendly nation like Germany? In any case, my understanding is virtually any nation in Central and South America requires identification to vote. If the third-world poverty stricken nations make it work there is no reason the rich United States cannot.

erghjunk 1y ago
assuming that you're talking about a driver's license, you're leaving out the important steps of passing driving tests and, more importantly, having a car.
- antonymoose 1y ago
  My state (as do most?) offer a state issued photo ID at the DMV, none of this driving nonsense is required.
  - Jtsummers 1y ago
    In GA, to pick on the state I was living in when they started instituting these rules, they cut DMV locations at the same time as they started adding the ID requirements (or trying to, I moved and don't know the current status of their rules). Yes, the state ID was free, but their actions at the same time, intended or not, made it harder for people to get the free ID.
- ClarityJones 1y ago
  Oh, are there states that don't issue IDs? In mine you can skip that stuff and just get the ID.
arp242 1y ago
You can't use your driving license under the proposed SAVE act, as it's not proof of citizenship. Only a few states offer "extended" driving licenses, which do, but also need to be requested separately in most (or all?) states that offer them IIRC. For every other state: you will have to use a passport, birth certificate, or a separate state ID card.
- hnuser123456 1y ago
  I renewed my license 4 years ago and got an enhanced license with no special request.
  - tenuousemphasis 1y ago
    OK now we just need to find out how well it works for thousands of other people from different states, social classes, and skin colors and then we'll have some real data.
  - xboxnolifes 1y ago
    Enhanced licenses only exist in 5 states.
- zzrrt 1y ago
  > Only a few states offer "extended" driving licenses, which do [prove your citizenship] If anyone is wondering, an enhanced drivers license is not the same as a "REAL ID". A "REAL ID" does not indicate citizenship status, which the SAVE act requires. https://campaignlegal.org/sites/default/files/2025-01/CLC%20Fact%20Sheet%20on%20the%20SAVE%20Act_0.pdf https://campaignlegal.org/sites/default/files/2025-01/CLC%20... https://www.sos.mn.gov/media/zzia53yr/033125-secretaries-of-state-letter-on-the-save-act.pdf https://www.sos.mn.gov/media/zzia53yr/033125-secretaries-of-... https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they
crooked-v 1y ago
"Same-day" doesn't work if you live somewhere that the DMV is only open during work hours, has lines longer than 8 hours (https://dmvwaittimes.org/north-carolina https://dmvwaittimes.org/north-carolina), or is literally only open four days a year (https://trust.dot.state.wi.us/cscfinder/cityCountySearch.do?city=Sauk+City https://trust.dot.state.wi.us/cscfinder/cityCountySearch.do?...).
woodrowbarlow 1y ago
another angle is: if the ID costs money, no matter how trivial the amount, then it is effectively a ballot fee.
- ImJamal 1y ago
  All states that require voter id have free ids that work for voting.
  - myvoiceismypass 1y ago
    And how accessible are said ids in every state?
    - ImJamal 1y ago
      No clue, but not at all relevant to what I was responding to. Please don't move to goal posts.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
skoskie 1y ago
And in my state I needed more documentation for an ID than was required for my passport. It varies wildly.

blindriver 1y ago

[flagged]

frakt0x90 1y ago

There's an excellent documentary by Channel 5 (formerly All Gas No Brakes) where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGrKJofDaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGrKJofDaw

gruez 1y ago
>where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible. That seems like the worst case scenario though? I don't think homeless people should be disenfranchised, but at the same time it's unfair to pretend the typical experience of getting a voter id resembles whatever the TV show is depicting either.
- pogue 1y ago
  It can be incredibly difficult and time consuming to get a birth certificate if you have lost yours. If you work full time, you'd have to take off for an unknown time period (typically multiple hours) to stand in line at a court or other facility that provides them. In some cases, people just don't have the option to take that time off and/or lack vehicle access to get there. Then there's a fee to get a copy, lots of forms you and your relatives have to sign & get notarized. Finally, if you're successful, then you get the opportunity to make an appointment to wait at line at a DMV location. In Texas, they have severely limited hours since COVID. I think it's become significantly worse since COVID & REAL ID requirements, but it's always been a Kafkaesque nightmare to try & get the proof of who you legally are. And, not to mention, it's a paper form that you can't just pull up digitally, so if you don't take precautions, it's easy to misplace.
  - assword 1y ago
    Oh man the birth certificate thing is ridiculous. I had to get a new Id from scratch recently and it was the most painful process The state I was born in decided to outsource the handling of birth certificates to some shit tier consulting firm. In order to get my birth certificate shipped to me, I would have to wait over six months simply to process my request (ostensibly due to Covid, but this was 2023). It would have been quicker for me to walk hundreds of miles and get it in person. Thankfully I lucked out and found an old one. Just a reminder that this is the shit politicians mean when they talk about privatizing government services.

simonsarris 1y ago

In what state is getting an ID difficult?