6 ms·

The 4-paragraph business case was useful for creating friction, which meant that if you couldn't be bothered to write 4 paragraphs you very likely didn't need t

The 4-paragraph business case was useful for creating friction, which meant that if you couldn't be bothered to write 4 paragraphs you very likely didn't need the computer upgrade in the first place. This might have been a genuinely useful system, something which broke down with the existence of LLMs.

handoflixue 1y ago
The problem is, I'm a verbose writer and can trivially churn out 4 paragraphs - another person is going to struggle. The friction is targeting the wrong area: this is a 15 minute break for me, and an hour long nightmare for my dyslexic co-worker. Social media will give you a good idea what sort of person enjoys writing 4 paragraphs when something goes wrong; do you really want to incentivize that?
MontyCarloHall 1y ago
The only definitively non-renewable resource is time. Time is often spent like a currency, whose monetary instrument is some tangible proxy of how much time elapsed. Verbosity was an excellent proxy, at least prior to the advent of generative AI. As you said, the reason Bob needs to write 4 paragraphs to get a new PC is to prove that he spent the requisite time for that computer, and is thus serious about the request. It’s the same reason management consultants and investment bankers spend 80+ hours a week working on enormous slide decks that only ever get skimmed by their clients: it proves to the clients that the firm spent time on them, and is thus serious about the case/deal. It’s also the same reason a concise thank-you note “thanks for the invite! we had a blast!” or a concise condolence note “very sorry for your loss” get a lot less well-received than a couple verbose paragraphs on how great the event was or how much the deceased will be missed, even if all that extra verbiage confers absolutely nothing beyond the core sentiment. (The very best notes, of course, use their extra words to convey something personally meaningful beyond “thanks” or “sorry.”) Gen-AI completely negates meaningless verbosity as a proxy of time spent. It will be interesting to see what emerges as a new proxy, since time-as-currency is extremely engrained into the fabric of human social interactions.
- protonbob 1y ago
  A proof of time spent cryptocurrency is the only way I can see a way out of this.
  - spencerflem 1y ago
    I think requiring in-person physical interactions is more likely
    - protonbob 1y ago
      This was obviously a joke
      - spencerflem 1y ago
        Hah sorry, you got me then :p
- nine_k 1y ago
  There's an important asymmetry here: it takes a lot of to weave an intricate pattern, but much less time to assess and even appreciate it. The sender / suitor pays significantly more than the receiver / decider. There are some parallels to that in compression and cryptography, but they are rather far-fetched.
- naveen99 1y ago
  Just stuff some cash inside the greeting card instead of time as a proof of burn.
ryanmcbride 1y ago
This is the sort of workplace philosophising that I hate the most. Employees aren't children. They don't need to have artificial bullshit put up in between them and what they need, the person approving just needs to actually pay attention. If someone wants a new computer they should just have to say why. And if it's a good reason, give it to them. If not, don't. Managers have to manage. They have to do their jobs. I'm a manager and I do my job by listening to the people I manage. I don't put them through humiliation rituals to get new equipment.
- ozim 1y ago
  Sounds like you did not work all that much. People want new computer because new hire Peter got a new one. People want new computer because they just had lunch with a friend that works in a different company and got a new computer and they just need to one up him next time they go to lunch. That is why I am not going to just give people computers because they ask. Worst crybabies come back because they „spilled coffee” on perfectly fine 2 years old laptop.
  - ryanmcbride 1y ago
    reread the comment you're responding to because I don't think you read it all the way. Specifically this part: >If someone wants a new computer they should just have to say why. And if it's a good reason, give it to them. If not, don't.
    - ozim 1y ago
      People make up reasons, no one comes in saying „Peter has a new laptop I want one as well”.
      - ryanmcbride 1y ago
        Yes and your job as a manager is to determine whether or not the reason is valid. And it'll be easier to do that if you ask for a 1 sentence explanation instead of 4 paragraphs.
fmbb 1y ago
I mean it’s all up to the employer if they want employees to be productive. If they don’t care they don’t care. They pay most of us for our time anyway, not what we achieve.

handoflixue 1y ago

The problem is, I'm a verbose writer and can trivially churn out 4 paragraphs - another person is going to struggle. The friction is targeting the wrong area: this is a 15 minute break for me, and an hour long nightmare for my dyslexic co-worker. Social media will give you a good idea what sort of person enjoys writing 4 paragraphs when something goes wrong; do you really want to incentivize that?

MontyCarloHall 1y ago

The only definitively non-renewable resource is time. Time is often spent like a currency, whose monetary instrument is some tangible proxy of how much time elapsed. Verbosity was an excellent proxy, at least prior to the advent of generative AI. As you said, the reason Bob needs to write 4 paragraphs to get a new PC is to prove that he spent the requisite time for that computer, and is thus serious about the request. It’s the same reason management consultants and investment bankers spend 80+ hours a week working on enormous slide decks that only ever get skimmed by their clients: it proves to the clients that the firm spent time on them, and is thus serious about the case/deal. It’s also the same reason a concise thank-you note “thanks for the invite! we had a blast!” or a concise condolence note “very sorry for your loss” get a lot less well-received than a couple verbose paragraphs on how great the event was or how much the deceased will be missed, even if all that extra verbiage confers absolutely nothing beyond the core sentiment. (The very best notes, of course, use their extra words to convey something personally meaningful beyond “thanks” or “sorry.”) Gen-AI completely negates meaningless verbosity as a proxy of time spent. It will be interesting to see what emerges as a new proxy, since time-as-currency is extremely engrained into the fabric of human social interactions.

protonbob 1y ago
A proof of time spent cryptocurrency is the only way I can see a way out of this.
- spencerflem 1y ago
  I think requiring in-person physical interactions is more likely
  - protonbob 1y ago
    This was obviously a joke
    - spencerflem 1y ago
      Hah sorry, you got me then :p
nine_k 1y ago
There's an important asymmetry here: it takes a lot of to weave an intricate pattern, but much less time to assess and even appreciate it. The sender / suitor pays significantly more than the receiver / decider. There are some parallels to that in compression and cryptography, but they are rather far-fetched.
naveen99 1y ago
Just stuff some cash inside the greeting card instead of time as a proof of burn.

ryanmcbride 1y ago

This is the sort of workplace philosophising that I hate the most. Employees aren't children. They don't need to have artificial bullshit put up in between them and what they need, the person approving just needs to actually pay attention. If someone wants a new computer they should just have to say why. And if it's a good reason, give it to them. If not, don't. Managers have to manage. They have to do their jobs. I'm a manager and I do my job by listening to the people I manage. I don't put them through humiliation rituals to get new equipment.

ozim 1y ago
Sounds like you did not work all that much. People want new computer because new hire Peter got a new one. People want new computer because they just had lunch with a friend that works in a different company and got a new computer and they just need to one up him next time they go to lunch. That is why I am not going to just give people computers because they ask. Worst crybabies come back because they „spilled coffee” on perfectly fine 2 years old laptop.
- ryanmcbride 1y ago
  reread the comment you're responding to because I don't think you read it all the way. Specifically this part: >If someone wants a new computer they should just have to say why. And if it's a good reason, give it to them. If not, don't.
  - ozim 1y ago
    People make up reasons, no one comes in saying „Peter has a new laptop I want one as well”.
    - ryanmcbride 1y ago
      Yes and your job as a manager is to determine whether or not the reason is valid. And it'll be easier to do that if you ask for a 1 sentence explanation instead of 4 paragraphs.

fmbb 1y ago

I mean it’s all up to the employer if they want employees to be productive. If they don’t care they don’t care. They pay most of us for our time anyway, not what we achieve.