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For Linux to gain 5% marketshare, I really doubt it "barely works" on a "limited set of hardware that it was designed for". It can run headless on basically any

For Linux to gain 5% marketshare, I really doubt it "barely works" on a "limited set of hardware that it was designed for". It can run headless on basically anything better than a Pentium, and it mostly just works on average hardware (except fingerprint sensors and Nvidia). I've had no problem with Linux on all my hardware, and I have a feeling the last time you looked at it was 2013.

pjmlp 1y ago
Besides working with it on servers on regular basis, and having had enough with it on desktops and laptops since 1995, last year I managed to get a NUC, where Ubuntu, Red-Hat and SuSE weren't able to boot from the internal SSD or get along with UEFI, only booting from the external drive worked. So yeah no problem, and yes I know should have gone to the usual forums asking everyone and their dog if someone before me had ever succeeded installing Linux on this brick.
- knowitnone2 1y ago
  then don't use it. Linux needs less people like you
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    And I don't, Android/Linux, WebOS/Linux and VMs are good enough. If others have fun making it work, good for them, I have better ways to spend the rest of my life on this litte sphere. As what Linux needs, I thought it needs every little user, to make a difference against Apple and Microsoft, after all we are always told that now is the year everyone is going to flee into Linux.
    - Agingcoder 1y ago
      Agreed - my view is that Linux on the desktop failed and will never succeed and its mostly alright since people have shifted their computing needs from desktops to phones. So the market for personal computers has grown massively with phones entering it, and Linux has won here. As to the general state of Linux usability - I’ve been using Linux since 1995, and professionally for more than 20 years - it’s great for professionally administered servers or workstations, less great for regular desktops / laptops where things pretty never work out of the box which is unfortunately not going to bring in extra users …
      - bytehowl 1y ago
        Linux may have won on phones, but free software did not, which is the thing that actually matters.
        Agingcoder 1y ago
        That’s a different issue but you have a point esp since the Linux vs windows fight back then was essentially framed as proprietary vs free.
- anthk 1y ago
  I have different opinions. Try my NUC. Reinstall Windows 10 on it; you won't get audio support unless you get especial audio drivers from a shady download URL (usually used from pirating services) linked from the OEM vendors. Windows Update won't help. Neither SDI Tool Origin. GNU/Linux works, HDMI output et all.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    I love how HN nowadays mirrors the Linux forums experience from phpBB and Slashdot days.
    - anthk 1y ago
      Because with NUCs if you dare to gasp reinstall the OEM OS, if the vendor it's gone, with Windows you might get a nice door stopper. You can get audio thru the headphones/speakers output, but that's a shitty experience for your living room. With Windows 11 it will happen the same.
  - Agingcoder 1y ago
    Unless I’m mistaken windows 10 is end of life in 3 months so this shouldn’t be surprising ?
    - anthk 1y ago
      Barely no one uses Windows 11.
      - Agingcoder 1y ago
        I think about half of all desktop machines , since MS is pushing upgrades aggressively. Many corporate environments ( have already moved as well. https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...
    - ForOldHack 1y ago
      Nope. Win 10 is now a free year of support. All the way to Oct 2026. Thanks for pointing out mistakenly your mistaken. And is it surprising than hardware shills are pointing not pointing this out? You want Linux get a Thinkpad, and a mouse, and plan on replugging every time you wake. "It just works." Well guess what?
hdjsbsbzbsbsb 1y ago
Running as a user where things need to work is not the same as being headless wherrle all you need is CLI access, disk and network ... My lenovo p14s is a great linux laptop unless you want it to sleep (which it does!) It even wakes up! But 50% of the time the trackpad does not wake up properly ... Making hard to be used as a laptop that I can get things done on
ruszki 1y ago
Linux didn’t work reliably on my laptops in the past 10 years. And I mean basic things, like booting up, or showing a desktop without serious glitches. And all the time problems were non deterministic, and printing just generic unhelpful “something is wrong” errors, if there were any. I try it every year, whether the situation is better, and in the past 25 years, the answer is that barely. Yes, you can have terminal with very basic settings almost every time, but if you want anything more, even just like proper resolution, then it’s still a lottery. The interesting thing is that before that I was luckier, I could hack Linux to many things (I would definitely not say “install”). And of course like in the past decades any time, you can always use Linux in VMs. Very reliably. So I stick to that.
- fsflover 1y ago
  > Linux didn’t work reliably on my laptops in the past 10 years. And I mean basic things, like booting up, or showing a desktop Which laptops? Do they all have Nvidia graphics? This is really vague. Your comment is not helpful, and it just looks like usual Linux bashing from people who don't know what they're talking about.
  - soco 1y ago
    FWIW I have Mint on two grandparents laptops and I agree with the parent comment. I gave up doing any updates on them, I just wipe off everything once a year and reinstall from scratch. Even though it's only browser and music player and nobody touches the settings (unless there was a misclick) yet still last time the desktop came to show through the application windows so I had to wipe it again and lo it worked.
    - fsflover 1y ago
      1. You didn't name the laptops just like the OP. 2. It seems you're using hardware designed for Windows. It's like trying to install Windows on a Macbook: You're on your own here. Don't blame Microsoft or Apple for your issues.
      - 1y ago
bboygravity 1y ago
> I have a feeling the last time you looked at it was 2013. I literally looked at it last week. Spent multiple days on it. Tried Mint and Zorin (full install, not just live). This is on a brand new Lenovo p16s Gen 4 with AMD (no nvidia). That laptop didn't even exist before this year. List of problems I encountered: -- Multi touch not working (fixed by switching from Mint to Zorin, upgrading mainline kernel in Mint did not help). -- External monitor not working (had to install display link drivers by going into terminal and running scripts and all of that other classic Linux usability) . -- Hardware video acceleration not working (scrolling super slow, maps super slow, entire system super slow). Had to install AMD display drivers for that separately. Upgrading mainline kernel worked for Mint, but not for Zorin. Installing AMD drivers in Zorin involved downloading the drivers, !editting an install script that is part of the drivers! and then having an LLM guide me through the rest of the extremely elaborate process of installing the driver. -- And to top it off, my classic pet peeve: there's no way to configure something as basic as scroll-lines (mouse scrollwheel speed) through a GUI in ANY of the distros. It involves installing imwheel, !writing a script!, setting the script to run on boot and then rebooting (and/or restarting the script). So no. There's definitely no "it just works". Not even on a laptop that is supposed to have official HW vendor support for Ubuntu. Also, I only ran it for like a day. I'm sure that I'll run into tons of other issues if I use it a bit longer. Good for you and lucky you that you got it to work. But for most of us Linux is "nice try, but it's not finished yet" .
- fsflover 1y ago
  > That laptop didn't even exist before this year. Here's your problem. The hardware wasn't designed to run Linux and you gave Linux no time to fix the related problems. Try older hardware or wait.
  - ForOldHack 1y ago
    It works for me, said every Linux zelot ever. NVidia acceleration is horrid. The only thing that worked was directx on zorin. AMD? Only a few machines, even fewer models. What all the zelots we're running is built in Intel. "It works for me." Followed by bins by the truck full of unsupported hardware. ThinkPads? Perfect every time? Dell? Have you configured you bios lately? Unsupported AMD? Grab your crayons on a race the old hardware will loose. Linux has had 10 years to run on 10 year old hardware. Linux is not an OS. It's an attitude, and it's not a reflection on the technology, it's a reflection on the lowest common denominator. Windows 10? I still have another 14 months left, and mass*.dev to thank. Hardware that was built to run Linux? Drivers? If you have an AMD card and any interest in Linux, pull the card and prepare to trash the entire system, like the HP sitting on the sidewalk last night. Bye.

pjmlp 1y ago

Besides working with it on servers on regular basis, and having had enough with it on desktops and laptops since 1995, last year I managed to get a NUC, where Ubuntu, Red-Hat and SuSE weren't able to boot from the internal SSD or get along with UEFI, only booting from the external drive worked. So yeah no problem, and yes I know should have gone to the usual forums asking everyone and their dog if someone before me had ever succeeded installing Linux on this brick.

knowitnone2 1y ago
then don't use it. Linux needs less people like you
- pjmlp 1y ago
  And I don't, Android/Linux, WebOS/Linux and VMs are good enough. If others have fun making it work, good for them, I have better ways to spend the rest of my life on this litte sphere. As what Linux needs, I thought it needs every little user, to make a difference against Apple and Microsoft, after all we are always told that now is the year everyone is going to flee into Linux.
  - Agingcoder 1y ago
    Agreed - my view is that Linux on the desktop failed and will never succeed and its mostly alright since people have shifted their computing needs from desktops to phones. So the market for personal computers has grown massively with phones entering it, and Linux has won here. As to the general state of Linux usability - I’ve been using Linux since 1995, and professionally for more than 20 years - it’s great for professionally administered servers or workstations, less great for regular desktops / laptops where things pretty never work out of the box which is unfortunately not going to bring in extra users …
    - bytehowl 1y ago
      Linux may have won on phones, but free software did not, which is the thing that actually matters.
      - Agingcoder 1y ago
        That’s a different issue but you have a point esp since the Linux vs windows fight back then was essentially framed as proprietary vs free.
anthk 1y ago
I have different opinions. Try my NUC. Reinstall Windows 10 on it; you won't get audio support unless you get especial audio drivers from a shady download URL (usually used from pirating services) linked from the OEM vendors. Windows Update won't help. Neither SDI Tool Origin. GNU/Linux works, HDMI output et all.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  I love how HN nowadays mirrors the Linux forums experience from phpBB and Slashdot days.
  - anthk 1y ago
    Because with NUCs if you dare to gasp reinstall the OEM OS, if the vendor it's gone, with Windows you might get a nice door stopper. You can get audio thru the headphones/speakers output, but that's a shitty experience for your living room. With Windows 11 it will happen the same.
- Agingcoder 1y ago
  Unless I’m mistaken windows 10 is end of life in 3 months so this shouldn’t be surprising ?
  - anthk 1y ago
    Barely no one uses Windows 11.
    - Agingcoder 1y ago
      I think about half of all desktop machines , since MS is pushing upgrades aggressively. Many corporate environments ( have already moved as well. https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...
  - ForOldHack 1y ago
    Nope. Win 10 is now a free year of support. All the way to Oct 2026. Thanks for pointing out mistakenly your mistaken. And is it surprising than hardware shills are pointing not pointing this out? You want Linux get a Thinkpad, and a mouse, and plan on replugging every time you wake. "It just works." Well guess what?

hdjsbsbzbsbsb 1y ago

Running as a user where things need to work is not the same as being headless wherrle all you need is CLI access, disk and network ... My lenovo p14s is a great linux laptop unless you want it to sleep (which it does!) It even wakes up! But 50% of the time the trackpad does not wake up properly ... Making hard to be used as a laptop that I can get things done on

ruszki 1y ago

Linux didn’t work reliably on my laptops in the past 10 years. And I mean basic things, like booting up, or showing a desktop without serious glitches. And all the time problems were non deterministic, and printing just generic unhelpful “something is wrong” errors, if there were any. I try it every year, whether the situation is better, and in the past 25 years, the answer is that barely. Yes, you can have terminal with very basic settings almost every time, but if you want anything more, even just like proper resolution, then it’s still a lottery. The interesting thing is that before that I was luckier, I could hack Linux to many things (I would definitely not say “install”). And of course like in the past decades any time, you can always use Linux in VMs. Very reliably. So I stick to that.

fsflover 1y ago
> Linux didn’t work reliably on my laptops in the past 10 years. And I mean basic things, like booting up, or showing a desktop Which laptops? Do they all have Nvidia graphics? This is really vague. Your comment is not helpful, and it just looks like usual Linux bashing from people who don't know what they're talking about.
- soco 1y ago
  FWIW I have Mint on two grandparents laptops and I agree with the parent comment. I gave up doing any updates on them, I just wipe off everything once a year and reinstall from scratch. Even though it's only browser and music player and nobody touches the settings (unless there was a misclick) yet still last time the desktop came to show through the application windows so I had to wipe it again and lo it worked.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    1. You didn't name the laptops just like the OP. 2. It seems you're using hardware designed for Windows. It's like trying to install Windows on a Macbook: You're on your own here. Don't blame Microsoft or Apple for your issues.
    - 1y ago

bboygravity 1y ago

> I have a feeling the last time you looked at it was 2013. I literally looked at it last week. Spent multiple days on it. Tried Mint and Zorin (full install, not just live). This is on a brand new Lenovo p16s Gen 4 with AMD (no nvidia). That laptop didn't even exist before this year. List of problems I encountered: -- Multi touch not working (fixed by switching from Mint to Zorin, upgrading mainline kernel in Mint did not help). -- External monitor not working (had to install display link drivers by going into terminal and running scripts and all of that other classic Linux usability) . -- Hardware video acceleration not working (scrolling super slow, maps super slow, entire system super slow). Had to install AMD display drivers for that separately. Upgrading mainline kernel worked for Mint, but not for Zorin. Installing AMD drivers in Zorin involved downloading the drivers, !editting an install script that is part of the drivers! and then having an LLM guide me through the rest of the extremely elaborate process of installing the driver. -- And to top it off, my classic pet peeve: there's no way to configure something as basic as scroll-lines (mouse scrollwheel speed) through a GUI in ANY of the distros. It involves installing imwheel, !writing a script!, setting the script to run on boot and then rebooting (and/or restarting the script). So no. There's definitely no "it just works". Not even on a laptop that is supposed to have official HW vendor support for Ubuntu. Also, I only ran it for like a day. I'm sure that I'll run into tons of other issues if I use it a bit longer. Good for you and lucky you that you got it to work. But for most of us Linux is "nice try, but it's not finished yet" .

fsflover 1y ago
> That laptop didn't even exist before this year. Here's your problem. The hardware wasn't designed to run Linux and you gave Linux no time to fix the related problems. Try older hardware or wait.
- ForOldHack 1y ago
  It works for me, said every Linux zelot ever. NVidia acceleration is horrid. The only thing that worked was directx on zorin. AMD? Only a few machines, even fewer models. What all the zelots we're running is built in Intel. "It works for me." Followed by bins by the truck full of unsupported hardware. ThinkPads? Perfect every time? Dell? Have you configured you bios lately? Unsupported AMD? Grab your crayons on a race the old hardware will loose. Linux has had 10 years to run on 10 year old hardware. Linux is not an OS. It's an attitude, and it's not a reflection on the technology, it's a reflection on the lowest common denominator. Windows 10? I still have another 14 months left, and mass*.dev to thank. Hardware that was built to run Linux? Drivers? If you have an AMD card and any interest in Linux, pull the card and prepare to trash the entire system, like the HP sitting on the sidewalk last night. Bye.