8 ms·

As expected, bureaucrats completely out of touch with current technology producing regulations that are out of touch with current technology

by solids 1y ago

SXX 1y ago
They know what they doing exactly. But they now have a reason to require age and ID checks to buy VPN. Then ban payments to VPNs that don't follow said regulation. You'll see.
- monooso 1y ago
  You greatly overestimate our legislators. Of course, they may react in the way you described, but I sincerely doubt we're witnessing some great master plan.
  - frogarden 1y ago
    I suspect it's more likely that there actually are a handful of politicians and influential people who do think and plan like that, who exploit the fact that most other politicians and influential people are quite ignorant and easy to lead around by their fear.
  - SXX 1y ago
    UK is literally the only country except for China that pushed to disable Apple E2E encryption country-wide. It doesn't matter how secure Avanced Data Protection is and how trustworthy is Apple. Just think on it. Also UK had law for years that can land you in prison for not providing decryption keys for data that you supposedly encrypyted. It's not actively used, but it's there. So nope, there plenty of UK politicians from both parties that will happily push something that will invade your privacy. And really no one who push against it.
    - RansomStark 1y ago
      > Also UK had law for years that can land you in prison for not providing decryption keys for data that you supposedly encrypted. It's not actively used, but it's there. It is actively used, it's just most people fold and hand over the data [0][1][2]. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11479831 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11479831 [1] https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/court-of-appeal-orders-men-to-disclose-encryption-keys https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/court-of-appeal-o... [2] https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2017/09/27/campaigner-who-refused-to-decrypt-smartphone-and-laptop-found-guilty/ https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2017/09/27/campaigner-who-refu...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Indeed, the simplest explanation is that they are hearing from voting constituents that porn and other objectionable content is too easy for kids to get online, and want to be seen as "doing something about it." Most parents don't want their kids looking at porn. While there are steps they can take to prevent it, they require some technical knowledge and are generally easy to get around. The easy availability of this content is what has changed. You used to have to go to a seedy bookstore, "adult" movie theatre, or video rental business to get it, and they wouldn't let kids in. Also you had to pay for it, and most kids don't have any money.
- TacticalCoder 1y ago
  > They know what they doing exactly. They're already using the "online safety act" to silence people online. They're super scared because a great many people have had enough. Crimes numbers, including rapes, are through the roof in the UK. And they want to silence anyone who wants to talk about criminality on the ultra rise. The UK is on a very dark path. It's the country in the world with the most millionaires fleeing the country: mainstream media brainwash the people saying it's supposedly for tax reasons these millionaires are leaving. But I live in a country where many millionaires and families have family offices and trusts and the tune is very different. People are scared of what's going on. Both criminality and religious extremism are rising at a more than alarming rate. And not only is the government doing nothing about it, they're going after those denouncing the crimes. People are now stabbed to death for their watch in London. A few days ago: https://www.lbc.co.uk/crime/three-arrested-man-stabbed-death-rolex/ https://www.lbc.co.uk/crime/three-arrested-man-stabbed-death... Leftists refuse to see it. They'll rationalize that that man was a capitalist oppressor for wearing a Rolex and that he provoked these people by wearing a $10 K watch. That he's the reason these killers were broke and forced to act evil. That they shouldn't get much jail time because now they'll surely be nice members of a high-trust society. These people are precisely those who brought the Online Safety Act. But it's Orwellian and Orwellian talk: for what the Online Safety Act is really used for is to silence talk about crimes. I'm in the EU: in a few years leftists shall probably have put a system in place where police shall come and knock on my door for my posts on HN.
  - badgersnake 1y ago
    This isn’t the Daily Mail comments section.
  - louthy 1y ago
    This is far right fear-mongering rhetoric. It’s the standard hatred of ethnic minorities whipped up by bigots. The UK is not on a “dark path”, that’s absolute nonsense. Nor do people live in fear. I assume you don’t actually live in the UK. Because none of your description is the UK I live in. > “People are scared of what's going on. Both criminality and religious extremism are rising at a more than alarming rate.” Crime is down and has been going down for 10 years. For “religious extremism” I’ll just read “I don’t like brown people”, because extremism is only really growing due to white supremacy groups. > “they're going after those denouncing the crimes.” No, they are not, they are going after those fomenting violence (literal riots). In one case leading to white supremacists trying to burn down a hotel with refugees in it. Crime happens. It doesn’t mean one crime is a symptom of a wider problem. And breaking news: crime is committed by white people too. RE: the Rolex watch crime — I walk through East London with a Patek Philippe on my arm and have zero concerns, I’m not scared, nor do I live in fear. Nobody I know in the UK is scared or living in fear — that’s just agenda driven rhetoric. Maybe get off twitter and/or the far-right manosphere and try changing your news sources for something more balanced.
- michaelt 1y ago
  Well, it all depends if the politicians actually care if this works. You see, this bill was passed in 2023, under a Conservative government; then a Labour government was elected in 2024, before the bill came into force. A nice little time bomb, set by the outgoing government - impractical and illiberal, but labelled all over with 'children' and 'cyber-bullying' and 'violent pornography' So if the Labour government keeps the legislation, they look like heavy-handed censors silencing LGBT voices and local hobby/community forums, yet if they repeal the legislation you can criticise them for wanting children to have access to violent porn. A Labour politician who thought this was shitty legislation, but who didn't think going on record as a pro-pornography voice would help his or her re-election prospects, might be entirely happy for age checks to be easy to bypass.
  - SXX 1y ago
    I really hope you are right. I'm not UK resident now, but I lived enough there, have family there and know enough about local politics to understand that when it's comes to privacy and freedoms there is very little difference between Conservative and Labour.
    - zahllos 1y ago
      I'd say more like none at all. The last Labour government (1997-2010) passed the counter terrorism act and had multiple public arguments about how long suspects could be detained without being charged or released in their future legislative attempts - see "prolonged detention" in this: https://www.jrrt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Rules_of_the_Game_leaflet-2005.pdf https://www.jrrt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Rules_of_.... They similarly passed the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, which amongst other things includes compelled key disclosure (or compelled decrypt). They also had the national identity register planned as part of ID cards. For fairness/balance, the tory government passed multiple acts. Online Safety Act was one, but the Investigatory Powers Act another - this did some relatively mundane things like call security service hacking "equipment interference" and say they were legally allowed to do it, but it was the act used on Apple to mandate technical capability to access iCloud e2e (act written by Tories, but TCN probably by Labour home office I would guess based on timing).
- mr90210 1y ago
  Mullvad is quite ahead as they sell activation codes on scratch cards.
  - gruez 1y ago
    Banning in-store sales of VPN activation codes seems well within the ability of the British state to do, especially when they already banned bank/credit card payments.
    - justlikereddit 1y ago
      Mullvad also let's you buy by mailing them cash. Or bank wire, or crypto.
    - harvey9 1y ago
      Not on an age basis since we have decades of precedent for retail staff to judge age and not keep a copy of ID. It will have to be on a more blatantly 'we want to be more like the Chinese communist party' basis.

As expected, bureaucrats completely out of touch with current technology producing regulations that are out of touch with current technology

by solids 1y ago

As expected, bureaucrats completely out of touch with current technology producing regulations that are out of touch with current technology

SXX 1y ago

They know what they doing exactly. But they now have a reason to require age and ID checks to buy VPN. Then ban payments to VPNs that don't follow said regulation. You'll see.

monooso 1y ago
You greatly overestimate our legislators. Of course, they may react in the way you described, but I sincerely doubt we're witnessing some great master plan.
- frogarden 1y ago
  I suspect it's more likely that there actually are a handful of politicians and influential people who do think and plan like that, who exploit the fact that most other politicians and influential people are quite ignorant and easy to lead around by their fear.
- SXX 1y ago
  UK is literally the only country except for China that pushed to disable Apple E2E encryption country-wide. It doesn't matter how secure Avanced Data Protection is and how trustworthy is Apple. Just think on it. Also UK had law for years that can land you in prison for not providing decryption keys for data that you supposedly encrypyted. It's not actively used, but it's there. So nope, there plenty of UK politicians from both parties that will happily push something that will invade your privacy. And really no one who push against it.
  - RansomStark 1y ago
    > Also UK had law for years that can land you in prison for not providing decryption keys for data that you supposedly encrypted. It's not actively used, but it's there. It is actively used, it's just most people fold and hand over the data [0][1][2]. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11479831 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11479831 [1] https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/court-of-appeal-orders-men-to-disclose-encryption-keys https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/court-of-appeal-o... [2] https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2017/09/27/campaigner-who-refused-to-decrypt-smartphone-and-laptop-found-guilty/ https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2017/09/27/campaigner-who-refu...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Indeed, the simplest explanation is that they are hearing from voting constituents that porn and other objectionable content is too easy for kids to get online, and want to be seen as "doing something about it." Most parents don't want their kids looking at porn. While there are steps they can take to prevent it, they require some technical knowledge and are generally easy to get around. The easy availability of this content is what has changed. You used to have to go to a seedy bookstore, "adult" movie theatre, or video rental business to get it, and they wouldn't let kids in. Also you had to pay for it, and most kids don't have any money.
TacticalCoder 1y ago
> They know what they doing exactly. They're already using the "online safety act" to silence people online. They're super scared because a great many people have had enough. Crimes numbers, including rapes, are through the roof in the UK. And they want to silence anyone who wants to talk about criminality on the ultra rise. The UK is on a very dark path. It's the country in the world with the most millionaires fleeing the country: mainstream media brainwash the people saying it's supposedly for tax reasons these millionaires are leaving. But I live in a country where many millionaires and families have family offices and trusts and the tune is very different. People are scared of what's going on. Both criminality and religious extremism are rising at a more than alarming rate. And not only is the government doing nothing about it, they're going after those denouncing the crimes. People are now stabbed to death for their watch in London. A few days ago: https://www.lbc.co.uk/crime/three-arrested-man-stabbed-death-rolex/ https://www.lbc.co.uk/crime/three-arrested-man-stabbed-death... Leftists refuse to see it. They'll rationalize that that man was a capitalist oppressor for wearing a Rolex and that he provoked these people by wearing a $10 K watch. That he's the reason these killers were broke and forced to act evil. That they shouldn't get much jail time because now they'll surely be nice members of a high-trust society. These people are precisely those who brought the Online Safety Act. But it's Orwellian and Orwellian talk: for what the Online Safety Act is really used for is to silence talk about crimes. I'm in the EU: in a few years leftists shall probably have put a system in place where police shall come and knock on my door for my posts on HN.
- badgersnake 1y ago
  This isn’t the Daily Mail comments section.
- louthy 1y ago
  This is far right fear-mongering rhetoric. It’s the standard hatred of ethnic minorities whipped up by bigots. The UK is not on a “dark path”, that’s absolute nonsense. Nor do people live in fear. I assume you don’t actually live in the UK. Because none of your description is the UK I live in. > “People are scared of what's going on. Both criminality and religious extremism are rising at a more than alarming rate.” Crime is down and has been going down for 10 years. For “religious extremism” I’ll just read “I don’t like brown people”, because extremism is only really growing due to white supremacy groups. > “they're going after those denouncing the crimes.” No, they are not, they are going after those fomenting violence (literal riots). In one case leading to white supremacists trying to burn down a hotel with refugees in it. Crime happens. It doesn’t mean one crime is a symptom of a wider problem. And breaking news: crime is committed by white people too. RE: the Rolex watch crime — I walk through East London with a Patek Philippe on my arm and have zero concerns, I’m not scared, nor do I live in fear. Nobody I know in the UK is scared or living in fear — that’s just agenda driven rhetoric. Maybe get off twitter and/or the far-right manosphere and try changing your news sources for something more balanced.
michaelt 1y ago
Well, it all depends if the politicians actually care if this works. You see, this bill was passed in 2023, under a Conservative government; then a Labour government was elected in 2024, before the bill came into force. A nice little time bomb, set by the outgoing government - impractical and illiberal, but labelled all over with 'children' and 'cyber-bullying' and 'violent pornography' So if the Labour government keeps the legislation, they look like heavy-handed censors silencing LGBT voices and local hobby/community forums, yet if they repeal the legislation you can criticise them for wanting children to have access to violent porn. A Labour politician who thought this was shitty legislation, but who didn't think going on record as a pro-pornography voice would help his or her re-election prospects, might be entirely happy for age checks to be easy to bypass.
- SXX 1y ago
  I really hope you are right. I'm not UK resident now, but I lived enough there, have family there and know enough about local politics to understand that when it's comes to privacy and freedoms there is very little difference between Conservative and Labour.
  - zahllos 1y ago
    I'd say more like none at all. The last Labour government (1997-2010) passed the counter terrorism act and had multiple public arguments about how long suspects could be detained without being charged or released in their future legislative attempts - see "prolonged detention" in this: https://www.jrrt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Rules_of_the_Game_leaflet-2005.pdf https://www.jrrt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Rules_of_.... They similarly passed the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, which amongst other things includes compelled key disclosure (or compelled decrypt). They also had the national identity register planned as part of ID cards. For fairness/balance, the tory government passed multiple acts. Online Safety Act was one, but the Investigatory Powers Act another - this did some relatively mundane things like call security service hacking "equipment interference" and say they were legally allowed to do it, but it was the act used on Apple to mandate technical capability to access iCloud e2e (act written by Tories, but TCN probably by Labour home office I would guess based on timing).
mr90210 1y ago
Mullvad is quite ahead as they sell activation codes on scratch cards.
- gruez 1y ago
  Banning in-store sales of VPN activation codes seems well within the ability of the British state to do, especially when they already banned bank/credit card payments.
  - justlikereddit 1y ago
    Mullvad also let's you buy by mailing them cash. Or bank wire, or crypto.
  - harvey9 1y ago
    Not on an age basis since we have decades of precedent for retail staff to judge age and not keep a copy of ID. It will have to be on a more blatantly 'we want to be more like the Chinese communist party' basis.