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Shipping the chips back to Taiwan to be packaged so they can then be shipped back to the United States for sale is a positive? What are you talking about?

cm2012 1y ago
Ocean shipping is very very cheap. Less cost in money and energy to ship a chip across the ocean than for you to drive to best buy to buy the phone its in.
- cheschire 1y ago
  Significantly more pollution though, right?
  - xxs 1y ago
    Sea freight is the least polluting one - due to the extreme amount of cargo. Air is expensive and very pollutant. However, talking about chips that are hundreds of watts each the pollution produced by them is a lot higher than any transport.
  - almosthere 1y ago
    But the boat is already going back empty
    - wila 1y ago
      and then the chips stay in Asia?
      - almosthere 1y ago
        then 5 pounds of chips on the way back is worth millions of dollars so it can be flown on a passenger jet or fedex jet that is already going here. or a boat and take up 3% of a container
  - hajile 1y ago
    There are moves being made to test ships with modern "sails". Here's a paper published about a cargo ship fitted with 4 sails in 2010. The findings are interesting with it achieving up to 25% better fuel efficiency when using the sails. https://www.stg-online.org/onTEAM/shipefficiency/programm/06-STG_Ship_Efficiency_2013_100913_Paper.pdf https://www.stg-online.org/onTEAM/shipefficiency/programm/06...
  - cm2012 1y ago
    No, much less pollution. It costs less carbon emissions to ship from Shanghai to California and back then for one person to drive 10 minutes to the store in their personal car.
  - perihelions 1y ago
    It's many orders of magnitude more energy to fab a chip than to ship it across an ocean. TSMC alone accounts for 12% of Taiwan's electricity demand, and growing fast: https://spectrum.ieee.org/taiwan-semiconductor https://spectrum.ieee.org/taiwan-semiconductor ("TSMC’s Energy Demand Drives Taiwan’s Geopolitical Future" (2024))
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- nobodyandproud 1y ago
  What about freight trains?
  - 1718627440 1y ago
    From the US to Taiwan? I mean if Elon Musk want's to build a hyperloop through a sea floor spreading zone, then sure why not.
    - nobodyandproud 1y ago
      The context was truck-based shipping being more expensive than ships. I was thinking Arizona/New Mexico to ports (and vice versa).
AnimalMuppet 1y ago
It's better (for the US) than if they're made elsewhere, packaged elsewhere, then sold here.
- lenerdenator 1y ago
  Looking at all of the places in the US that used to make things before those things were made elsewhere, I'd say it's not better for the US.
reliabilityguy 1y ago
Shipping is a temporary measure. What’s positive is that we have state of the art domestic manufacturing with potential to onshore more and more of the required supply chains, building/educating local expertise, etc etc. It’s silly to focus on shipping.
mort96 1y ago
You can't go all the way in one step. Having built domestic chip capacity is positive for the US, even if domestic packaging capacity isn't there yet. It's obviously not a desirable situation long term.

cm2012 1y ago

Ocean shipping is very very cheap. Less cost in money and energy to ship a chip across the ocean than for you to drive to best buy to buy the phone its in.

cheschire 1y ago
Significantly more pollution though, right?
- xxs 1y ago
  Sea freight is the least polluting one - due to the extreme amount of cargo. Air is expensive and very pollutant. However, talking about chips that are hundreds of watts each the pollution produced by them is a lot higher than any transport.
- almosthere 1y ago
  But the boat is already going back empty
  - wila 1y ago
    and then the chips stay in Asia?
    - almosthere 1y ago
      then 5 pounds of chips on the way back is worth millions of dollars so it can be flown on a passenger jet or fedex jet that is already going here. or a boat and take up 3% of a container
- hajile 1y ago
  There are moves being made to test ships with modern "sails". Here's a paper published about a cargo ship fitted with 4 sails in 2010. The findings are interesting with it achieving up to 25% better fuel efficiency when using the sails. https://www.stg-online.org/onTEAM/shipefficiency/programm/06-STG_Ship_Efficiency_2013_100913_Paper.pdf https://www.stg-online.org/onTEAM/shipefficiency/programm/06...
- cm2012 1y ago
  No, much less pollution. It costs less carbon emissions to ship from Shanghai to California and back then for one person to drive 10 minutes to the store in their personal car.
- perihelions 1y ago
  It's many orders of magnitude more energy to fab a chip than to ship it across an ocean. TSMC alone accounts for 12% of Taiwan's electricity demand, and growing fast: https://spectrum.ieee.org/taiwan-semiconductor https://spectrum.ieee.org/taiwan-semiconductor ("TSMC’s Energy Demand Drives Taiwan’s Geopolitical Future" (2024))
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
nobodyandproud 1y ago
What about freight trains?
- 1718627440 1y ago
  From the US to Taiwan? I mean if Elon Musk want's to build a hyperloop through a sea floor spreading zone, then sure why not.
  - nobodyandproud 1y ago
    The context was truck-based shipping being more expensive than ships. I was thinking Arizona/New Mexico to ports (and vice versa).

AnimalMuppet 1y ago

It's better (for the US) than if they're made elsewhere, packaged elsewhere, then sold here.

lenerdenator 1y ago
Looking at all of the places in the US that used to make things before those things were made elsewhere, I'd say it's not better for the US.

reliabilityguy 1y ago

Shipping is a temporary measure. What’s positive is that we have state of the art domestic manufacturing with potential to onshore more and more of the required supply chains, building/educating local expertise, etc etc. It’s silly to focus on shipping.

mort96 1y ago

You can't go all the way in one step. Having built domestic chip capacity is positive for the US, even if domestic packaging capacity isn't there yet. It's obviously not a desirable situation long term.