9 ms·

Six Years of Gemini

216 points by brson 1y ago

monkeywork 1y ago
Gemini is one of those things I see pop up and tell myself I should look into it more and then it fades into the back of my mind. Anyone have any hints on getting more use out of it or ways to make it more present in my day to day.
- martinrue 1y ago
  I made the first (and still popular) "social network" 4 years ago. Still going strong. More info: https://martinrue.com/station https://martinrue.com/station
  - tvshtr 1y ago
    it's this federated with anything?
    - martinrue 1y ago
      No, it's as simple as it sounds. I should think about that at some point.
      - grep_name 1y ago
        This is an interesting project. So the whole thing is hosted at gemini://station.martinrue.com, with no way to host other instances? Stuff like this that leverages the default TLS nature of gemini is pretty exciting. I'm going to have to set up an account later to check it out. Edit: Checked it out and this is definitely a cool idea. Is there any way to change the unicode emoji next to your name?
    - dimkr1 1y ago
      https://github.com/dimkr/tootik https://github.com/dimkr/tootik is another Gemini social network that does federate over ActivityPub, and I've been thinking about developing a minimalist ActivityPub alternative (maybe using Gemini and Titan to replace HTTP GET and POST, respectively) that can coexist with ActivityPub support
      - kstrauser 1y ago
        That’s brilliant, and exactly the sort of thing that could get me back into Gemini. Nice!
      - tvshtr 1y ago
        thanks! looks interesting
- agumonkey 1y ago
  I love the frugality, overall project goals, and I'm used to non mainstream ergonomics (I enjoy gnu ed..). But something about Gemini search engines and browsing was unfit for me to keep using it.
- b00ty4breakfast 1y ago
  NewsWaffle gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/ takes a url to a regular webpage and spits out a gemtext version that is much more sparse and, for me, is much more readable. For example, here's this very website: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/feed?https%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2Frss it's honestly the only reason I still use gemini since the rest of it is abandoned gemlogs, rehosts of web content I don't care or ersatz social media
  - akkartik 1y ago
    Oh nice, a gateway in the opposite direction!
  - anthk 1y ago
    There are far more gopher phlogs than gemini gemlogs. Still, both communities overlap of course. Setting up a gopher phlog requires no TLS at all and any machine from 1980 (even maybe ITS with a Gopher client written in MacLisp) will be able to read it with no issues.
    - b00ty4breakfast 1y ago
      that's another large chunk of gemini; rehosted gopherholes. Which is silly unless the originals aren't accessible anymore since gopher is already a minimalist protocol
      - anthk 1y ago
        They render better on Smartphones. Lagrange and such do a good job but is not perfect. Oddly, the best client for Android (albeit clunky) has been Emacs+Elpher as it has the perfect options for word wrapping. Altough as most Gopher sites are hosted under Unix, running fmt/fold/par on files is a non-issue modulo ASCII ART and inline code with hard requeriments on indentation (TCL for instance on code blocks) or Python.
- safety1st 1y ago
  Perhaps this may help: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/geminize/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/geminize/ You will need to prefix a gemini URL with "gem " if you're pasting it into the address bar.
- rainingmonkey 1y ago
  Kristall[1] is my favourite browser, Antenna[2] is my favourite aggregator. Get browser, read some capsules! [1]https://kristall.random-projects.net/ https://kristall.random-projects.net/ [2] gemini://warmedal.se/~antenna/
martinrue 1y ago
Gemini for me has been such a breath of fresh air in contrast to 2025 Internet, with so many ads, grift and now AI slop. Back when I first discovered Gemini, I wanted to create a space for people to have a voice without needing to run their own server, so I built Station (https://martinrue.com/station https://martinrue.com/station). I've been running it ever since. Gemini in general, and specifically folk who use Station regularly, make it a friendly, throwback-to-the-90s vibe, and I still value it a lot.
LAC-Tech 1y ago
Does gemini have any concept of feeds or pub/sub? I noted there were a few capsules that acted as a sort of hub for other peoples capsules. which suggested to me there was a way to automate it, and I might be able to make my own
- ecliptik 1y ago
  Are SpaceWalk [1] or Moku Pona[2] what you're looking for? 1. https://tildegit.org/sloum/spacewalk https://tildegit.org/sloum/spacewalk 2. https://github.com/kensanata/moku-pona https://github.com/kensanata/moku-pona
- VariousPrograms 1y ago
  These are some feeds and aggregators I have bookmarked gemini://skyjake.fi/~Cosmos/view.gmi gemini://warmedal.se/~antenna/ gemini://calcuode.com/gmisub-aggregate.gmi gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/ gemini://tinylogs.gmi.bacardi55.io/ gemini://sl1200.dystopic.world/juntaletras.gmi
- Gormo 1y ago
  Does gemini have any concept of feeds or pub/sub? Yes: https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/companion/subscription.gmi https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/companion/subscription.gmi Many clients, including my favorite, Lagrange (https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/ https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/) support feed subscriptions.
fishgoesblub 1y ago
It was sad seeing the hate for it on here when it was new-ish, and while I haven't used it in a while, I'm glad to see it still kicking around. Such a neat and fun project.
- sneak 1y ago
  I don’t hate it, but I question the use. You can use HTTP to do what it does, but better. The modern web is opt-in. I build and use sites that aren’t SPAs and shitted up with 3p resources and images and code. HTTP is great, and deserves our time and attention. I get that they seem upset with the modern web, and I am too - but it isn’t HTTP’s fault. It’s the sites you visit. If you want to build new and smaller communities, I really think we should be building for browsers. Perhaps a website design manifesto is in order.
  - treve 1y ago
    The limits of the medium and the creativity this enforces is why people like it. It caters a niche audience with a shared set of values. I get why people don't really care for it personally or on a technical level (myself included), but it always surprises me that it's hard for people to understand that others do.
    - jay_kyburz 1y ago
      I agree the limitations are what makes the platform great, but I really wish they had included a simple image block in the spec. Text only is just a little to limiting if you ask me.
      - rainingmonkey 1y ago
        Many browsers will render a link to an image as an embedded image block!
  - MrVandemar 1y ago
    > The modern web is opt-in. I build and use sites that aren’t SPAs and shitted up with 3p resources and images and code. That is a microscopic subset of the modern web. I don't use Gemini— though I am highly tempted —but I expect some of the attraction is that you can click on any link and pretty much guaranteed not to be socked in the face with a sign-up-for-my-newsletter or cookies-accept-all-yes-later or paragraph-ad-paragraph-ad-paragraph-ad or fiddling with NoScript to find the minimum amount of Javascript that will let you read some article that looks interesting. In Gemini, all that friction just goes away.
dxyms 1y ago
For those that were thinking of the LLM and don’t know what this is, like me, their FAQ details what it is: https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/faq.gmi https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/faq.gmi
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- snthpy 1y ago
  Thanks. For this that don't want to have to click through: Gemini is an application-level client-server internet protocol for the distribution of arbitrary files, with some special consideration for serving a lightweight hypertext format which facilitates linking between hosted files. Both the protocol and the format are deliberately limited in capabilities and scope, and the protocol is technically conservative, being built on mature, standardised, familiar, "off-the-shelf" technologies like URIs, MIME media types and TLS. Simplicity and finite scope are very intentional design decisions motivated by placing a high priority on user autonomy, user privacy, ease of implementation in diverse computing environments, and defensive non-extensibility. In short, it is something like a radically stripped down web stack. See section 4 of this FAQ document for questions relating to the design of Gemini.
ilaksh 1y ago
I think Gemini is a step in the right direction for some things. I usually mention my "tersenet" ideas when I see Gemini. Now that we have the Gemini LLM and Claude etc. there is less excuse for me to not finish any real software demo for it. Maybe one these days I will make an actual client for part of it. I think there is room for things like media and applications even on an idealized web. But they should not necessarily be combined along with information browsing and search into one thing. https://github.com/runvnc/tersenet https://github.com/runvnc/tersenet
- zzo38computer 1y ago
  > I think Gemini is a step in the right direction for some things. I also think so, although I have criticisms of it too (e.g. mandatory TLS; I think optional (except files that require authentication for access) would be better), but nevertheless it can be used. > I usually mention my "tersenet" ideas when I see Gemini I have seen TerseNet, and I mentioned it in my "small web" document. I think it is good that media and programs are not loaded automatically, although there are other problems with TerseNet in my opinion, such as text being limited to 5K. > I think there is room for things like media and applications even on an idealized web. But they should not necessarily be combined along with information browsing and search into one thing. I agree, it is helpful, and they should be separated. I also made up a protocol and file format specification, in order to deal with the criticisms of the other ones. In addition to avoiding many things, there is also adding things which would be useful, beyond what WWW and others might do. So, it is not strictly a subset of the functions of WWW, even though many things are deliberately avoided.
rcarmo 1y ago
I wrote a server for it a while back (am still running it someplace behind a CF tunnel) but I’ve never really found either the community or the protocol were taking off: https://github.com/rcarmo/aiogemini https://github.com/rcarmo/aiogemini A key issue with the ecosystem (not the protocol) as far as I’m concerned is that it would have been stupendously better to settle on Markdown (even a simplified form) for content creation. The rest is OK, I guess, but it’s just a nuisance to maintain “dual format” sites. (I see a few comments here about the community’s opinions and leanings, but to be honest it’s not any weirder than your average old-timely IRC channel or fringe Mastodon server—-live and let live, read what you want and just skip Antenna listings you don’t like)
- uamgeoalsk 1y ago
  Being able to parse gemtext line by line with almost no context is a big win for simplicity - you can't really do that with markdown.
  - blueflow 1y ago
    It is possible if you restrict yourself to an subset of markdown. It works pretty well, actually, i have two awk scripts that take in a subset of markdown and generate either HTML or LaTeX.
    - uamgeoalsk 1y ago
      Sure, that's fair! In any case, I personally prefer the aesthetics and the readability of gemtext to markdown (especially when it comes to links!)
    - Etheryte 1y ago
      Pure ascii text is also a subset of markdown, so it doesn't really say much that it works for a restricted subset.
  - fallat 1y ago
    Uh, how much simplicity do you really gain? What's an instance of needing to backtrack?
vouaobrasil 1y ago
I love the idea, but it's just to fringe to use for me. But I will say that I think the internet was far better before Google search really became strong, and before the corresponding massive increase in SEO spam.
NoboruWataya 1y ago
I'll add my name to the list of people who like the idea and were very curious about it when they first heard about it but now don't think about it as much. It's very fun to develop for. The simplicity of the protocol means that writing a server, client or "web app" (equivalent) is a weekend project. So there is a proliferation of software for it but that doesn't necessarily translate into content. There is content, though. My favourite aggregator is gemini://warmedal.se/~antenna/ and I do still drop by there regularly enough to have a browse. It's no longer all meta content which is good (people used to just use Geminispace to write about Gemini). It's still quite tech/FOSS focused, unsurprisingly. I agree with the other comments that are saying that a simple markdown would have been better than gemtext. Whenever Gemini gets mentioned on HN there are a lot of commenters who seem to have an issue with the "views" or "values" of some people within the community. They never go into detail. I can honestly say I'm not sure what the issue is. As a very middle-of-the-road centrist I have never had much of an issue with the content I find on Gemini. Sure, you had a few interesting "characters" on the mailing list (back when it existed) but they were a minority and it was nothing you don't also find on the web. I guess people there tend to be more dogmatic about sticking to FOSS and keeping the internet non-corporate, which can rub people the wrong way, but again you can find similar views on the web (and IMO it makes for interesting discussions even if I don't agree with the dogmatism).
snvzz 1y ago
This is just somebody's "finished" pet protocol (author did not allow anybody to give input). Narcissism we should not enable. I will stick to gopher, as it is mature and much friendlier to low spec / retro machines.
- uamgeoalsk 1y ago
  That's not narcissism - it's just someone building something they enjoy and sharing it with the world. Do you have the same objections to fiction writers or songwriters? It's totally fine to prefer gopher for its maturity (I'd vehemently disagree, but that's for another day) or compatibility with retro machines, but framing someone else's creative project as a character flaw is just rude.
- spc476 1y ago
  The author very much did allow others to give input. The original protocol had single digit status codes, I was arguing for three digit codes, he compromised with two digit codes. It was my idea to include the full URL for requests, and for redirections. It's just that it wasn't easy, but he could be reasoned with. The only two hard lines Solderpunk had for the protocol was TLS, and single level lists (why, I don't know).
- anthk 1y ago
  Gopher user there from texto-plano (and seldomly, SDF). Gopher often sucks for 40x25 devices or mobile ones. Yes, word wrapping, but everyone uses the 72 char limit or even doesn't give a heck and I have to set my own $PAGER calling fmt, fold or par before less. On TLS, you are right. But I've got to build BearSSL and some libreSSL for for Damn Small Linux. The 2.4 kernel one, were ALSA was a novely and DMIX was hard to set, the one you got with Debian Woody... with the bf24 at the LILO prompt. So, if DSL can run some BearSSL based OpenSSL-lite client, a gemini client for it should be totally doable.
  - zzo38computer 1y ago
    One issue I have with BearSSL is that it does not currently implement TLS 1.3, as far as I can tell.
Wild_Dolphins 1y ago
Gemini is a beautiful idea. However, it works on the basis of mandatory-prohibition. The prohibition is: "You cannot track and exploit your site visitors". This philosophy is enforced 'remotely', by the creators of the Gemini protocol. An identical end-result can be achieved in HTML, by choosing not to use hostile markup. However, with HTML the prohibition must be enforced 'locally', by the ethical-philosophical position of the website-designer. The problem with the Gemini-protocol is that it introduces an attack vector: The Gemini 'browsers' themselves. The most popular one is not audited; has a huge code-base; and has relatively few eyes-on-it. I'm not saying that Gemini protocol is a honey-trap for those trying to exit the surveillance-internet; but if I was a tech-giant / agency profiting from the surveillance-internet, I would definitely write browsers for the Gemini protocol and backdoor them. As a former "Don't be evil" company, it would be of great interest to me who was trying to exit my 'web'; how; and why :) Food for thought...
- zzo38computer 1y ago
  > You cannot track and exploit your site visitors Despite the specification, there is such possibilities as TLS fingerprinting, URL tracking, although it does reduce much of the problems of WWW. > The problem with the Gemini-protocol is that it introduces an attack vector: The Gemini 'browsers' themselves. The most popular one is not audited; has a huge code-base; and has relatively few eyes-on-it. You do not have to use the most popular one (I don't use the most popular one); there are many others available as well, and the specification is made that you could hopefully make your own one if you like to do, too. > if I was a tech-giant / agency profiting from the surveillance-internet, I would definitely write browsers for the Gemini protocol and backdoor them. Nobody is required to use that specific implementation, and someone might find the backdoors, but it is possible. > As a former "Don't be evil" company, it would be of great interest to me who was trying to exit my 'web'; how; and why :) You do not necessarily need to write a new browser to check this; sometimes they already write public documents about these things, and there are many other ways to track it (e.g. by logging other things, by tracking browser extensions, etc).
- b00ty4breakfast 1y ago
  the userbase for gemini is so miniscule, I can't imagine they could get enough data to want to even bother. Bit like trophy fishing in the puddle of rain runoff next to the stocked pond of monster bass.
zozbot234 1y ago
Gemini the protocol is still a bit mysterious to me. Why not use plain HTTPS and just serve a new text/x.gemini MIME type? Or even serve plain old text/html and enforce no-JS-or-CSS in the Gemini client.
- mcluck 1y ago
  Part of the goals of making it so tiny, as far as I understand it, is that a normal person could reasonably implement the entire thing from server to client. Going full HTTPS and HTML is a bit of a lift for a single person in a short period of time
- Gormo 1y ago
  Because then it would be using HTTPS, and would not be isolated from the web in the way Gemini intends.
thisisauserid 1y ago
"1.1.1 The dense, jargony answer for geeks in a hurry Gemini is an application-level client-server internet protocol for the distribution of arbitrary files" If I were one, I would consider that to have been buried.
vascocosta 1y ago
As an early adopter and developer of a couple of service oriented capsules, as time went by my interest faded completely. I'm a strong advocate of live and let live, so this is not a critique or discouragement post, but rather my own perspective. Like many have mentioned already, I personally would have preferred pure markdown and no gemtext at all. Similarly, and although I understand the reasoning behind making encryption mandatory, I believe it should be optional in the spirit of KISS. I'm more of a minimalist than I am a privacy evangelist. In this regard, I felt a bit out of place within the gemini community. Finally, the argument that it takes a new protocol to avoid a broken user experience, often exemplified by someone jumping from a simple and well behaved HTTP website into a chaotic one, doesn't resonate much with me. Again, I get it, but I can live with visiting only the websites or gopherholes I want. This comes with a great advantage. Even if we consider just the minimalist and well designed websites, this means hoards of content when compared to all gemini capsules. I missed a broader set of topics when I used gemini and ultimately that was what killed my interest. All that said, I loved it while I used it and I stumbled upon some really nice people. Maybe I'll fall in love again one day... gluon
- RiverCrochet 1y ago
  The thing I liked about Gemini and its self-imposed limitations is that it was very much impossible to create a misbehaving Gemini document. There is no way a Gemini browser will phone home, run malicious code on my side, grab/upload my browser history or send sensor or other data because I forgot to turn off various options, etc. To me the entire thing was much more trustworthy. You can of course recreate this experience using HTTP and modern browsers, but both are so complicated that you don't know what's really happening without a lot of work.
  - vascocosta 1y ago
    I liked that as well, but wouldn't remember it before reading your comment. I guess all in all it is a pretty nice protocol, the only real problem for me is that the content is too niche to appeal to me on a daily basis.
  - jug 1y ago
jmclnx 1y ago
FWIW, I have moved my WEB site to Gemini an decided a little later to mirror it on gopher (for fun). I find maintaining these 2 sites far easier then dealing with html and the *panels I need to use to upload to my old WEB site. People who have never viewed Gemini are missing some decent content.
- grep_name 1y ago
  I checked out gemini maybe four years ago? And I remember really liking the idea but struggling to find content. Got any tips?
  - jmclnx 1y ago
    try gemini://sdf.org/ and gemini://gem.sdf.org/
  - Gormo 1y ago
    gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/ gemini://skyjake.fi/~Cosmos/
  - ipcress_file 1y ago
    Here are a few more: gemini://calcuode.com/gmisub-aggregate.gmi gemini://nytpu.com/feed.gmi gemini://skyjake.fi/lagrange/getting_started.gmi
debo_ 1y ago
I like Gemini. My (anonymous) blog (gemlog) is posted there and has an http proxy, and is a no-brainer to maintain. Once in a while I check Lagrange (Gemini "browser") for gemlogs I've subscribed to and catch up with what other anons are going through. It tends to be a lot more raw and persona-less than what I find on the web, which I appreciate. It's generally just cozy.
rickcarlino 1y ago
Regardless of the technical shortcomings of the protocol, a grassroots group of individuals has managed to create a viable new network protocol. The user base is small, but it is not tiny and it is not nonexistent and it has been going for years now. You can download a Gemini client and find regularly updated blogs on a Gemini search engine. You can have discussions on Gemini applications like Antenna or Station. It has managed to solve many of the problems it intended to solve (privacy, resource bloat, protocol specification bloat, etc.).
- throwaway328 1y ago
  What did it do for privacy? I think Gemini is great, and read from Nyxt browser. Don't know if I've seen any references to privacy benefits, so curious.
  - rickcarlino 1y ago
    I’m pretty sure they talk about privacy directly in the spec, but I haven’t read the spec in years. Going off the top of my head, they had the decision to not include things like user agent headers or anything that resembles a cookie specifically with the goal of preserving privacy. There is also the obvious point of the protocol not supporting raw TCP sockets and requiring encryption by default.
floren 1y ago
The thing about Gemini is that it reads like someone who thinks Gopher sounds neat but has only ever dealt with HTTP and HTML/Markdown... so they took HTTP GET, chopped a digit off the response codes, and called it a new protocol, then tacked on an intentionally-broken Markdown implementation (more broken than the original Markdown, I mean). Interesting note: the first line of a Gemini response is a MIME type. It's usually `text/gemini` but there's no reason it can't be `text/html`, `application/javascript`, or anything else. A while back I did a little poking in some Gemini server code and made it do precisely that: serve HTML files which I accessed via elinks. Of course once you're serving HTML over Gemini you might ask, exactly what advantage am I getting by putting it over a purposefully-broken subset of HTTP, and I would say that's a damn good question. In 2024 I wrote 'The modern Web and all its crappiness didn't come about because there's something inherently wicked in HTML and HTTP, it came about because people built things on top of the basic foundation, extending (sometimes poorly) and expanding. The more people play with Gemini, the more they'll want to "extend" it... and the closer they'll bring it to HTTP, because it follows the exact same fundamental model once you strip off the extraneous document format specification' and I stand by it.
- RiverCrochet 1y ago
  > The more people play with Gemini, the more they'll want to "extend" it... and the closer they'll bring it to HTTP Then it's not Gemini. Interestingly this is why it was decided for Gemini not to have a protocol version. To prevent extension.
  - floren 1y ago
    2019: Gemini introduced 2022-ish: Titan created (based on existed of https://web.archive.org/web/20220126075826/https://transjovian.org:1965/titan https://web.archive.org/web/20220126075826/https://transjovi...). The spec for Titan (https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/transjovian.org/titan/page/The%20Titan%20Specification https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/transjovian.org/titan/page/The...?) appears to be an implementation of PUT for Gemini, but since Gemini doesn't have verbs (GET is implied) it does it by creating a whole new "protocol" titan:// So you're right, they didn't extend the Gemini protocol, they created an entirely new protocol which many clients, servers, and libraries now implement because the functionality was desirable. Wonder what they'll call the protocol that implements DELETE... maybe Deorbit? Edit: oh there's also Spartan (2022), another protocol which is Gemini but if there are bytes after the request line, it's an implicit PUT: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/michael-lazar/spartan/refs/heads/main/public/specification.gmi https://raw.githubusercontent.com/michael-lazar/spartan/refs...
pabs3 1y ago
Some stuff about archives of gemini:// and other SmolNet sites: https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/SmolNet https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/SmolNet

216 points by brson 1y ago

Gemini is one of those things I see pop up and tell myself I should look into it more and then it fades into the back of my mind. Anyone have any hints on getting more use out of it or ways to make it more present in my day to day.

martinrue 1y ago
I made the first (and still popular) "social network" 4 years ago. Still going strong. More info: https://martinrue.com/station https://martinrue.com/station
- tvshtr 1y ago
  it's this federated with anything?
  - martinrue 1y ago
    No, it's as simple as it sounds. I should think about that at some point.
    - grep_name 1y ago
      This is an interesting project. So the whole thing is hosted at gemini://station.martinrue.com, with no way to host other instances? Stuff like this that leverages the default TLS nature of gemini is pretty exciting. I'm going to have to set up an account later to check it out. Edit: Checked it out and this is definitely a cool idea. Is there any way to change the unicode emoji next to your name?
  - dimkr1 1y ago
    https://github.com/dimkr/tootik https://github.com/dimkr/tootik is another Gemini social network that does federate over ActivityPub, and I've been thinking about developing a minimalist ActivityPub alternative (maybe using Gemini and Titan to replace HTTP GET and POST, respectively) that can coexist with ActivityPub support
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      That’s brilliant, and exactly the sort of thing that could get me back into Gemini. Nice!
    - tvshtr 1y ago
      thanks! looks interesting
agumonkey 1y ago
I love the frugality, overall project goals, and I'm used to non mainstream ergonomics (I enjoy gnu ed..). But something about Gemini search engines and browsing was unfit for me to keep using it.
b00ty4breakfast 1y ago
NewsWaffle gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/ takes a url to a regular webpage and spits out a gemtext version that is much more sparse and, for me, is much more readable. For example, here's this very website: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/feed?https%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2Frss it's honestly the only reason I still use gemini since the rest of it is abandoned gemlogs, rehosts of web content I don't care or ersatz social media
- akkartik 1y ago
  Oh nice, a gateway in the opposite direction!
- anthk 1y ago
  There are far more gopher phlogs than gemini gemlogs. Still, both communities overlap of course. Setting up a gopher phlog requires no TLS at all and any machine from 1980 (even maybe ITS with a Gopher client written in MacLisp) will be able to read it with no issues.
  - b00ty4breakfast 1y ago
    that's another large chunk of gemini; rehosted gopherholes. Which is silly unless the originals aren't accessible anymore since gopher is already a minimalist protocol
    - anthk 1y ago
      They render better on Smartphones. Lagrange and such do a good job but is not perfect. Oddly, the best client for Android (albeit clunky) has been Emacs+Elpher as it has the perfect options for word wrapping. Altough as most Gopher sites are hosted under Unix, running fmt/fold/par on files is a non-issue modulo ASCII ART and inline code with hard requeriments on indentation (TCL for instance on code blocks) or Python.
safety1st 1y ago
Perhaps this may help: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/geminize/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/geminize/ You will need to prefix a gemini URL with "gem " if you're pasting it into the address bar.
rainingmonkey 1y ago
Kristall[1] is my favourite browser, Antenna[2] is my favourite aggregator. Get browser, read some capsules! [1]https://kristall.random-projects.net/ https://kristall.random-projects.net/ [2] gemini://warmedal.se/~antenna/

martinrue 1y ago

Gemini for me has been such a breath of fresh air in contrast to 2025 Internet, with so many ads, grift and now AI slop. Back when I first discovered Gemini, I wanted to create a space for people to have a voice without needing to run their own server, so I built Station (https://martinrue.com/station https://martinrue.com/station). I've been running it ever since. Gemini in general, and specifically folk who use Station regularly, make it a friendly, throwback-to-the-90s vibe, and I still value it a lot.

LAC-Tech 1y ago

Does gemini have any concept of feeds or pub/sub? I noted there were a few capsules that acted as a sort of hub for other peoples capsules. which suggested to me there was a way to automate it, and I might be able to make my own

ecliptik 1y ago
Are SpaceWalk [1] or Moku Pona[2] what you're looking for? 1. https://tildegit.org/sloum/spacewalk https://tildegit.org/sloum/spacewalk 2. https://github.com/kensanata/moku-pona https://github.com/kensanata/moku-pona
VariousPrograms 1y ago
These are some feeds and aggregators I have bookmarked gemini://skyjake.fi/~Cosmos/view.gmi gemini://warmedal.se/~antenna/ gemini://calcuode.com/gmisub-aggregate.gmi gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/ gemini://tinylogs.gmi.bacardi55.io/ gemini://sl1200.dystopic.world/juntaletras.gmi
Gormo 1y ago
Does gemini have any concept of feeds or pub/sub? Yes: https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/companion/subscription.gmi https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/companion/subscription.gmi Many clients, including my favorite, Lagrange (https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/ https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/) support feed subscriptions.

fishgoesblub 1y ago

It was sad seeing the hate for it on here when it was new-ish, and while I haven't used it in a while, I'm glad to see it still kicking around. Such a neat and fun project.

sneak 1y ago
I don’t hate it, but I question the use. You can use HTTP to do what it does, but better. The modern web is opt-in. I build and use sites that aren’t SPAs and shitted up with 3p resources and images and code. HTTP is great, and deserves our time and attention. I get that they seem upset with the modern web, and I am too - but it isn’t HTTP’s fault. It’s the sites you visit. If you want to build new and smaller communities, I really think we should be building for browsers. Perhaps a website design manifesto is in order.
- treve 1y ago
  The limits of the medium and the creativity this enforces is why people like it. It caters a niche audience with a shared set of values. I get why people don't really care for it personally or on a technical level (myself included), but it always surprises me that it's hard for people to understand that others do.
  - jay_kyburz 1y ago
    I agree the limitations are what makes the platform great, but I really wish they had included a simple image block in the spec. Text only is just a little to limiting if you ask me.
    - rainingmonkey 1y ago
      Many browsers will render a link to an image as an embedded image block!
- MrVandemar 1y ago
  > The modern web is opt-in. I build and use sites that aren’t SPAs and shitted up with 3p resources and images and code. That is a microscopic subset of the modern web. I don't use Gemini— though I am highly tempted —but I expect some of the attraction is that you can click on any link and pretty much guaranteed not to be socked in the face with a sign-up-for-my-newsletter or cookies-accept-all-yes-later or paragraph-ad-paragraph-ad-paragraph-ad or fiddling with NoScript to find the minimum amount of Javascript that will let you read some article that looks interesting. In Gemini, all that friction just goes away.

dxyms 1y ago

For those that were thinking of the LLM and don’t know what this is, like me, their FAQ details what it is: https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/faq.gmi https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/faq.gmi

deleted 1y ago
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snthpy 1y ago
Thanks. For this that don't want to have to click through: Gemini is an application-level client-server internet protocol for the distribution of arbitrary files, with some special consideration for serving a lightweight hypertext format which facilitates linking between hosted files. Both the protocol and the format are deliberately limited in capabilities and scope, and the protocol is technically conservative, being built on mature, standardised, familiar, "off-the-shelf" technologies like URIs, MIME media types and TLS. Simplicity and finite scope are very intentional design decisions motivated by placing a high priority on user autonomy, user privacy, ease of implementation in diverse computing environments, and defensive non-extensibility. In short, it is something like a radically stripped down web stack. See section 4 of this FAQ document for questions relating to the design of Gemini.

ilaksh 1y ago

I think Gemini is a step in the right direction for some things. I usually mention my "tersenet" ideas when I see Gemini. Now that we have the Gemini LLM and Claude etc. there is less excuse for me to not finish any real software demo for it. Maybe one these days I will make an actual client for part of it. I think there is room for things like media and applications even on an idealized web. But they should not necessarily be combined along with information browsing and search into one thing. https://github.com/runvnc/tersenet https://github.com/runvnc/tersenet

zzo38computer 1y ago
> I think Gemini is a step in the right direction for some things. I also think so, although I have criticisms of it too (e.g. mandatory TLS; I think optional (except files that require authentication for access) would be better), but nevertheless it can be used. > I usually mention my "tersenet" ideas when I see Gemini I have seen TerseNet, and I mentioned it in my "small web" document. I think it is good that media and programs are not loaded automatically, although there are other problems with TerseNet in my opinion, such as text being limited to 5K. > I think there is room for things like media and applications even on an idealized web. But they should not necessarily be combined along with information browsing and search into one thing. I agree, it is helpful, and they should be separated. I also made up a protocol and file format specification, in order to deal with the criticisms of the other ones. In addition to avoiding many things, there is also adding things which would be useful, beyond what WWW and others might do. So, it is not strictly a subset of the functions of WWW, even though many things are deliberately avoided.

rcarmo 1y ago

I wrote a server for it a while back (am still running it someplace behind a CF tunnel) but I’ve never really found either the community or the protocol were taking off: https://github.com/rcarmo/aiogemini https://github.com/rcarmo/aiogemini A key issue with the ecosystem (not the protocol) as far as I’m concerned is that it would have been stupendously better to settle on Markdown (even a simplified form) for content creation. The rest is OK, I guess, but it’s just a nuisance to maintain “dual format” sites. (I see a few comments here about the community’s opinions and leanings, but to be honest it’s not any weirder than your average old-timely IRC channel or fringe Mastodon server—-live and let live, read what you want and just skip Antenna listings you don’t like)

uamgeoalsk 1y ago
Being able to parse gemtext line by line with almost no context is a big win for simplicity - you can't really do that with markdown.
- blueflow 1y ago
  It is possible if you restrict yourself to an subset of markdown. It works pretty well, actually, i have two awk scripts that take in a subset of markdown and generate either HTML or LaTeX.
  - uamgeoalsk 1y ago
    Sure, that's fair! In any case, I personally prefer the aesthetics and the readability of gemtext to markdown (especially when it comes to links!)
  - Etheryte 1y ago
    Pure ascii text is also a subset of markdown, so it doesn't really say much that it works for a restricted subset.
- fallat 1y ago
  Uh, how much simplicity do you really gain? What's an instance of needing to backtrack?

vouaobrasil 1y ago

I love the idea, but it's just to fringe to use for me. But I will say that I think the internet was far better before Google search really became strong, and before the corresponding massive increase in SEO spam.

NoboruWataya 1y ago

I'll add my name to the list of people who like the idea and were very curious about it when they first heard about it but now don't think about it as much. It's very fun to develop for. The simplicity of the protocol means that writing a server, client or "web app" (equivalent) is a weekend project. So there is a proliferation of software for it but that doesn't necessarily translate into content. There is content, though. My favourite aggregator is gemini://warmedal.se/~antenna/ and I do still drop by there regularly enough to have a browse. It's no longer all meta content which is good (people used to just use Geminispace to write about Gemini). It's still quite tech/FOSS focused, unsurprisingly. I agree with the other comments that are saying that a simple markdown would have been better than gemtext. Whenever Gemini gets mentioned on HN there are a lot of commenters who seem to have an issue with the "views" or "values" of some people within the community. They never go into detail. I can honestly say I'm not sure what the issue is. As a very middle-of-the-road centrist I have never had much of an issue with the content I find on Gemini. Sure, you had a few interesting "characters" on the mailing list (back when it existed) but they were a minority and it was nothing you don't also find on the web. I guess people there tend to be more dogmatic about sticking to FOSS and keeping the internet non-corporate, which can rub people the wrong way, but again you can find similar views on the web (and IMO it makes for interesting discussions even if I don't agree with the dogmatism).

snvzz 1y ago

This is just somebody's "finished" pet protocol (author did not allow anybody to give input). Narcissism we should not enable. I will stick to gopher, as it is mature and much friendlier to low spec / retro machines.

uamgeoalsk 1y ago
That's not narcissism - it's just someone building something they enjoy and sharing it with the world. Do you have the same objections to fiction writers or songwriters? It's totally fine to prefer gopher for its maturity (I'd vehemently disagree, but that's for another day) or compatibility with retro machines, but framing someone else's creative project as a character flaw is just rude.
spc476 1y ago
The author very much did allow others to give input. The original protocol had single digit status codes, I was arguing for three digit codes, he compromised with two digit codes. It was my idea to include the full URL for requests, and for redirections. It's just that it wasn't easy, but he could be reasoned with. The only two hard lines Solderpunk had for the protocol was TLS, and single level lists (why, I don't know).
anthk 1y ago
Gopher user there from texto-plano (and seldomly, SDF). Gopher often sucks for 40x25 devices or mobile ones. Yes, word wrapping, but everyone uses the 72 char limit or even doesn't give a heck and I have to set my own $PAGER calling fmt, fold or par before less. On TLS, you are right. But I've got to build BearSSL and some libreSSL for for Damn Small Linux. The 2.4 kernel one, were ALSA was a novely and DMIX was hard to set, the one you got with Debian Woody... with the bf24 at the LILO prompt. So, if DSL can run some BearSSL based OpenSSL-lite client, a gemini client for it should be totally doable.
- zzo38computer 1y ago
  One issue I have with BearSSL is that it does not currently implement TLS 1.3, as far as I can tell.

Wild_Dolphins 1y ago

Gemini is a beautiful idea. However, it works on the basis of mandatory-prohibition. The prohibition is: "You cannot track and exploit your site visitors". This philosophy is enforced 'remotely', by the creators of the Gemini protocol. An identical end-result can be achieved in HTML, by choosing not to use hostile markup. However, with HTML the prohibition must be enforced 'locally', by the ethical-philosophical position of the website-designer. The problem with the Gemini-protocol is that it introduces an attack vector: The Gemini 'browsers' themselves. The most popular one is not audited; has a huge code-base; and has relatively few eyes-on-it. I'm not saying that Gemini protocol is a honey-trap for those trying to exit the surveillance-internet; but if I was a tech-giant / agency profiting from the surveillance-internet, I would definitely write browsers for the Gemini protocol and backdoor them. As a former "Don't be evil" company, it would be of great interest to me who was trying to exit my 'web'; how; and why :) Food for thought...

zzo38computer 1y ago
> You cannot track and exploit your site visitors Despite the specification, there is such possibilities as TLS fingerprinting, URL tracking, although it does reduce much of the problems of WWW. > The problem with the Gemini-protocol is that it introduces an attack vector: The Gemini 'browsers' themselves. The most popular one is not audited; has a huge code-base; and has relatively few eyes-on-it. You do not have to use the most popular one (I don't use the most popular one); there are many others available as well, and the specification is made that you could hopefully make your own one if you like to do, too. > if I was a tech-giant / agency profiting from the surveillance-internet, I would definitely write browsers for the Gemini protocol and backdoor them. Nobody is required to use that specific implementation, and someone might find the backdoors, but it is possible. > As a former "Don't be evil" company, it would be of great interest to me who was trying to exit my 'web'; how; and why :) You do not necessarily need to write a new browser to check this; sometimes they already write public documents about these things, and there are many other ways to track it (e.g. by logging other things, by tracking browser extensions, etc).
b00ty4breakfast 1y ago
the userbase for gemini is so miniscule, I can't imagine they could get enough data to want to even bother. Bit like trophy fishing in the puddle of rain runoff next to the stocked pond of monster bass.

zozbot234 1y ago

Gemini the protocol is still a bit mysterious to me. Why not use plain HTTPS and just serve a new text/x.gemini MIME type? Or even serve plain old text/html and enforce no-JS-or-CSS in the Gemini client.

mcluck 1y ago
Part of the goals of making it so tiny, as far as I understand it, is that a normal person could reasonably implement the entire thing from server to client. Going full HTTPS and HTML is a bit of a lift for a single person in a short period of time
Gormo 1y ago
Because then it would be using HTTPS, and would not be isolated from the web in the way Gemini intends.

thisisauserid 1y ago

"1.1.1 The dense, jargony answer for geeks in a hurry Gemini is an application-level client-server internet protocol for the distribution of arbitrary files" If I were one, I would consider that to have been buried.

vascocosta 1y ago

As an early adopter and developer of a couple of service oriented capsules, as time went by my interest faded completely. I'm a strong advocate of live and let live, so this is not a critique or discouragement post, but rather my own perspective. Like many have mentioned already, I personally would have preferred pure markdown and no gemtext at all. Similarly, and although I understand the reasoning behind making encryption mandatory, I believe it should be optional in the spirit of KISS. I'm more of a minimalist than I am a privacy evangelist. In this regard, I felt a bit out of place within the gemini community. Finally, the argument that it takes a new protocol to avoid a broken user experience, often exemplified by someone jumping from a simple and well behaved HTTP website into a chaotic one, doesn't resonate much with me. Again, I get it, but I can live with visiting only the websites or gopherholes I want. This comes with a great advantage. Even if we consider just the minimalist and well designed websites, this means hoards of content when compared to all gemini capsules. I missed a broader set of topics when I used gemini and ultimately that was what killed my interest. All that said, I loved it while I used it and I stumbled upon some really nice people. Maybe I'll fall in love again one day... gluon

RiverCrochet 1y ago
The thing I liked about Gemini and its self-imposed limitations is that it was very much impossible to create a misbehaving Gemini document. There is no way a Gemini browser will phone home, run malicious code on my side, grab/upload my browser history or send sensor or other data because I forgot to turn off various options, etc. To me the entire thing was much more trustworthy. You can of course recreate this experience using HTTP and modern browsers, but both are so complicated that you don't know what's really happening without a lot of work.
- vascocosta 1y ago
  I liked that as well, but wouldn't remember it before reading your comment. I guess all in all it is a pretty nice protocol, the only real problem for me is that the content is too niche to appeal to me on a daily basis.
- jug 1y ago

jmclnx 1y ago

FWIW, I have moved my WEB site to Gemini an decided a little later to mirror it on gopher (for fun). I find maintaining these 2 sites far easier then dealing with html and the *panels I need to use to upload to my old WEB site. People who have never viewed Gemini are missing some decent content.

grep_name 1y ago
I checked out gemini maybe four years ago? And I remember really liking the idea but struggling to find content. Got any tips?
- jmclnx 1y ago
  try gemini://sdf.org/ and gemini://gem.sdf.org/
- Gormo 1y ago
  gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/ gemini://skyjake.fi/~Cosmos/
- ipcress_file 1y ago
  Here are a few more: gemini://calcuode.com/gmisub-aggregate.gmi gemini://nytpu.com/feed.gmi gemini://skyjake.fi/lagrange/getting_started.gmi

debo_ 1y ago

I like Gemini. My (anonymous) blog (gemlog) is posted there and has an http proxy, and is a no-brainer to maintain. Once in a while I check Lagrange (Gemini "browser") for gemlogs I've subscribed to and catch up with what other anons are going through. It tends to be a lot more raw and persona-less than what I find on the web, which I appreciate. It's generally just cozy.

rickcarlino 1y ago

Regardless of the technical shortcomings of the protocol, a grassroots group of individuals has managed to create a viable new network protocol. The user base is small, but it is not tiny and it is not nonexistent and it has been going for years now. You can download a Gemini client and find regularly updated blogs on a Gemini search engine. You can have discussions on Gemini applications like Antenna or Station. It has managed to solve many of the problems it intended to solve (privacy, resource bloat, protocol specification bloat, etc.).

throwaway328 1y ago
What did it do for privacy? I think Gemini is great, and read from Nyxt browser. Don't know if I've seen any references to privacy benefits, so curious.
- rickcarlino 1y ago
  I’m pretty sure they talk about privacy directly in the spec, but I haven’t read the spec in years. Going off the top of my head, they had the decision to not include things like user agent headers or anything that resembles a cookie specifically with the goal of preserving privacy. There is also the obvious point of the protocol not supporting raw TCP sockets and requiring encryption by default.

floren 1y ago

The thing about Gemini is that it reads like someone who thinks Gopher sounds neat but has only ever dealt with HTTP and HTML/Markdown... so they took HTTP GET, chopped a digit off the response codes, and called it a new protocol, then tacked on an intentionally-broken Markdown implementation (more broken than the original Markdown, I mean). Interesting note: the first line of a Gemini response is a MIME type. It's usually `text/gemini` but there's no reason it can't be `text/html`, `application/javascript`, or anything else. A while back I did a little poking in some Gemini server code and made it do precisely that: serve HTML files which I accessed via elinks. Of course once you're serving HTML over Gemini you might ask, exactly what advantage am I getting by putting it over a purposefully-broken subset of HTTP, and I would say that's a damn good question. In 2024 I wrote 'The modern Web and all its crappiness didn't come about because there's something inherently wicked in HTML and HTTP, it came about because people built things on top of the basic foundation, extending (sometimes poorly) and expanding. The more people play with Gemini, the more they'll want to "extend" it... and the closer they'll bring it to HTTP, because it follows the exact same fundamental model once you strip off the extraneous document format specification' and I stand by it.

RiverCrochet 1y ago
> The more people play with Gemini, the more they'll want to "extend" it... and the closer they'll bring it to HTTP Then it's not Gemini. Interestingly this is why it was decided for Gemini not to have a protocol version. To prevent extension.
- floren 1y ago
  2019: Gemini introduced 2022-ish: Titan created (based on existed of https://web.archive.org/web/20220126075826/https://transjovian.org:1965/titan https://web.archive.org/web/20220126075826/https://transjovi...). The spec for Titan (https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/transjovian.org/titan/page/The%20Titan%20Specification https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/transjovian.org/titan/page/The...?) appears to be an implementation of PUT for Gemini, but since Gemini doesn't have verbs (GET is implied) it does it by creating a whole new "protocol" titan:// So you're right, they didn't extend the Gemini protocol, they created an entirely new protocol which many clients, servers, and libraries now implement because the functionality was desirable. Wonder what they'll call the protocol that implements DELETE... maybe Deorbit? Edit: oh there's also Spartan (2022), another protocol which is Gemini but if there are bytes after the request line, it's an implicit PUT: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/michael-lazar/spartan/refs/heads/main/public/specification.gmi https://raw.githubusercontent.com/michael-lazar/spartan/refs...

pabs3 1y ago

Some stuff about archives of gemini:// and other SmolNet sites: https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/SmolNet https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/SmolNet