12 ms·

Majority of my phone usage outside of reading HN is through dedicated apps. News, social media, chats and even substack. If I was building a product today, web

by dovys 1y ago

Majority of my phone usage outside of reading HN is through dedicated apps. News, social media, chats and even substack. If I was building a product today, web would be quite low on the priority list outside of SEO capture.

msgodel 1y ago
The problem with dedicated apps is that you often have to fight with the OS vendor for basic functionality in your app just to distribute it and these days you don't actually gain much with a dedicated app since modern sandboxing is so aggressive and web apis are relatively complete.
- meepmorp 1y ago
  IMO as an end user - aggressive sandboxing is a feature, not a bug
  - amelius 1y ago
    A browser is a sandbox.
  - msgodel 1y ago
    Browsers already do this much better. If you don't trust something that's where it belongs, not as a local app.
- criddell 1y ago
  > you don’t actually gain much Some of what you gain is pretty important though. For example, well written native apps integrate better with the platform’s accessibility features and they typically consume less power, storage, and memory.
  - msgodel 1y ago
    I'd contest the storage point pretty strongly. Well written web apps can be very accessible too and some companies do actually go out of their way to ensure this.
amelius 1y ago
All the more reason to stand up against it and choose the web.
rantingdemon 1y ago
I absolutely hate this state of affairs. Apps don't allow me to open multiple tabs, as an example.
- gear54rus 1y ago
  But they do allow showing unblockable ads and notifications, so some 'people' absolutely love that state of affairs because they benefit from it.
  - latexr 1y ago
    I don’t know what the state is on Android, but on iOS (and macOS) unblockable notifications aren’t really a thing (notifications need permissions that you manage on a per-app basis) and many app ads can also be blocked (1Blocker does it), though it’s not as powerful because it’s essentially domain blocking. I’m not disagreeing with you, merely providing more context. Companies like Reddit and Facebook definitely push you more to the apps so they can extract more value out of you.
    - gear54rus 1y ago
      What if you want to see some notifications but not others? But the developers are scammy and didn't separate ads into their own channel?
      - latexr 1y ago
        Then that’s a shitty company and perhaps you should consider not using their service anymore. Either way I don’t see how that’s relevant to the point. It’s not like the web is any different in that regard.
        gear54rus 1y ago
        > Then that’s a shitty company and perhaps you should consider not using their service anymore. That's not always possible. There might not be enough quality competition and I don't see others following my example to beat the shitty company into submission and make them change their ways if I do that. > Either way I don’t see how that’s relevant to the point. It’s not like the web is any different in that regard. Web is very different in that regard. You can pry any app open and change basically anything with a single press of F12. Most of the time, people already did that for you and submitted an ad blocking filter for everyone to use. This isn't even close to the crapware of a typical app store. Web is the last democratic platform we have left.
michaelbuckbee 1y ago
It used to be that cli tools were the power users preference but now I feel like that's shifted to web apps (over native). The ability to have multiple tabs/views, load extensions to customize behavior, adjust sizing, etc. As an example: an absolutely vital tool for me is the Vimium keyboard control extension for navigation, which unfortunately can't be used in dedicated apps.
skybrian 1y ago
I'm wondering which of us is the outlier, because I heavily use browser apps on my phone and tablet and ignore vendors' prompts to install their native apps. (Other than Google apps, that is.)

by dovys 1y ago

msgodel 1y ago

The problem with dedicated apps is that you often have to fight with the OS vendor for basic functionality in your app just to distribute it and these days you don't actually gain much with a dedicated app since modern sandboxing is so aggressive and web apis are relatively complete.

meepmorp 1y ago
IMO as an end user - aggressive sandboxing is a feature, not a bug
- amelius 1y ago
  A browser is a sandbox.
- msgodel 1y ago
  Browsers already do this much better. If you don't trust something that's where it belongs, not as a local app.
criddell 1y ago
> you don’t actually gain much Some of what you gain is pretty important though. For example, well written native apps integrate better with the platform’s accessibility features and they typically consume less power, storage, and memory.
- msgodel 1y ago
  I'd contest the storage point pretty strongly. Well written web apps can be very accessible too and some companies do actually go out of their way to ensure this.

amelius 1y ago

All the more reason to stand up against it and choose the web.

rantingdemon 1y ago

I absolutely hate this state of affairs. Apps don't allow me to open multiple tabs, as an example.

gear54rus 1y ago
But they do allow showing unblockable ads and notifications, so some 'people' absolutely love that state of affairs because they benefit from it.
- latexr 1y ago
  I don’t know what the state is on Android, but on iOS (and macOS) unblockable notifications aren’t really a thing (notifications need permissions that you manage on a per-app basis) and many app ads can also be blocked (1Blocker does it), though it’s not as powerful because it’s essentially domain blocking. I’m not disagreeing with you, merely providing more context. Companies like Reddit and Facebook definitely push you more to the apps so they can extract more value out of you.
  - gear54rus 1y ago
    What if you want to see some notifications but not others? But the developers are scammy and didn't separate ads into their own channel?
    - latexr 1y ago
      Then that’s a shitty company and perhaps you should consider not using their service anymore. Either way I don’t see how that’s relevant to the point. It’s not like the web is any different in that regard.
      - gear54rus 1y ago
        > Then that’s a shitty company and perhaps you should consider not using their service anymore. That's not always possible. There might not be enough quality competition and I don't see others following my example to beat the shitty company into submission and make them change their ways if I do that. > Either way I don’t see how that’s relevant to the point. It’s not like the web is any different in that regard. Web is very different in that regard. You can pry any app open and change basically anything with a single press of F12. Most of the time, people already did that for you and submitted an ad blocking filter for everyone to use. This isn't even close to the crapware of a typical app store. Web is the last democratic platform we have left.

michaelbuckbee 1y ago

It used to be that cli tools were the power users preference but now I feel like that's shifted to web apps (over native). The ability to have multiple tabs/views, load extensions to customize behavior, adjust sizing, etc. As an example: an absolutely vital tool for me is the Vimium keyboard control extension for navigation, which unfortunately can't be used in dedicated apps.

skybrian 1y ago

I'm wondering which of us is the outlier, because I heavily use browser apps on my phone and tablet and ignore vendors' prompts to install their native apps. (Other than Google apps, that is.)