6 ms·

Sorry for your story. In those days open source is REALLY HARD. Put your github link here and we will support your project by starring you and spreading your pr

Sorry for your story. In those days open source is REALLY HARD. Put your github link here and we will support your project by starring you and spreading your project. You definitely need to fight back.

litexlang 1y ago
[dead]
npsomaratna 1y ago
Not the developer, but here is his repo: https://github.com/sohzm/cheating-daddy https://github.com/sohzm/cheating-daddy
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- dheerajvs 1y ago
  As an interviewer, I'm seeing a huge increase in proportion of candidates cheating surreptitiously during video interviews. And it's becoming difficult to suspect any wrong-doing unless you're very watchful by looking for academic responses to questions. Why would anyone encourage building such a tool, I can't fathom.
  - zettabomb 1y ago
    It's pretty simple - people need to eat (and fulfill other basic needs, of course), to eat they need jobs, to get jobs they need to pass the interview. The hiring process in a lot of industries is heavily gamed at this point, to the point that not cheating is basically an automatic fail. So, if you want to eat, you cheat.
    - Simon_O_Rourke 1y ago
      Doing whatever it takes to get the foot in the door may be encouraged, but only to a point and I think out and out cheating is probably crossing a line... As would murder, arson etc. etc. If cheating means asking someone in the company you're interviewing for a peek at what will be asked then great. In my book that's using leverage. Reviewing previously posted interview tests is probably recommended. Hooking up a copilot to answer interview questions for you in real time is probably less so.
      - Gregaros 1y ago
        > If cheating means asking someone in the company you're interviewing for a peek at what will be asked then great. In my book that's using leverage. In my book that is unambiguously unethical and should get the contact fired. I am shocked to see this approach promoted in such a blasé manner.
        Simon_O_Rourke 1y ago
        How is it unethical? Say you ask whoever what's being asked and they say you need to sort a string in place and then discuss how a random forest gets trained... You still need to answer those questions AND know enough to answer the follow up questions. If you're no good you'll be still found out. It just means you'll have a head start over someone without those kinds of contacts. So what level of utilizing your professional network crosses a line? Does a recommendation cross a line because I know for a fact that internal recommendations are moved to the head of the queue in most companies.
        Gregaros 1y ago
        Presumably the value in knowing "you need to sort a string in place and then discuss how a random forest gets trained" is that it impacts your answers - for instance, by allowing you to look this up before the interview while appearing to the interviewers to he operating unfer the dame conditions as the other candidates, who did not know to. Your performance then appears as a signal of broader inwoledge and capability than you possess - you have, as is the entire point here and which I should not need to spell out, gained an advantage over other candidates by virtue of the information which was intentionally leaked. If the point of the interview were "answer those questions AND know enough to answer the follow up questions" _once told what to expect and prep_, they’d be sharing those questions with all candidates. If you feel that saying to the interviewers "by the way, I did know this because [X] told me they’d be here" wouldn’t impact outcomes, then great. If you feel you’d need to hide that, then you’re aware this involves dishonesty - and if you still struggle to see how that’s unethical, lets just make sure we never need to work together.
    - Grikbdl 1y ago
      > The hiring process in a lot of industries is heavily gamed at this point, to the point that not cheating is basically an automatic fail. This sound a bit of "thief thinks everyone steals". Interview preparation is normal and common but I don't think cheating is. May depend on the location of course.
      - nottorp 1y ago
        The "heavily gaming" happens before the interview. When you reorder and edit your resume to have the right keywords to get on top of the LLM/intern sorted pile.
    - dahart 1y ago
      > if you want to eat, you cheat. I can totally understand thinking this way out of desperation, and being lulled into thinking it’s this simple, but it seems short sighted with hidden complexities. First of all, it’s risky. If you get caught, you don’t eat, and it could follow you and prevent you from even getting in the door elsewhere. Companies are always going to be watching for cheaters, they are always going to have more visibility than you into what interviewees are doing, and they are always going to have more resources. Even if you do cheat and get hired, it quickly becomes obvious that you’re unqualified and can’t do what you claimed, and even if you don’t lose your job, you’re less likely to get promoted. Being lazy and amoral about interviews seems like a trap people set for themselves. The good news is that a lot of companies are starting to allow AI during the interviews, and suddenly it’s not cheating. But of course that means you need to be good at using AI and interviewing and programming, you won’t be able to cheat and rely on the AI to do your talking for you.
  - koffiezet 1y ago
    When interviewers use LLM gargbage to filter out participants, expect candidates to do the same.
    - dheerajvs 1y ago
      I don't use LLMs to filter out participants and I expect candidates not to use LLMs to cheat.
      - nottorp 1y ago
        Then you can't compete with other recruiters who do. "AI" will take your job!
      - hopelite 1y ago
        Have you tried putting yourself in the perspective of the humans trying to find a job in a market that is turning over now and was already dystopian before AI was injected into a dystopian, hellish process of “putting on a tie and using a firm handshake” to apply into the void.
        gwd 1y ago
        This is so stupid. One of the main reasons it's become a dystopian, hellish process is because people cheat; proliferating cheating will make it even worse. Lying and cheating on a job interview isn't a victimless crime. You're harming the company and all your coworkers when they hire you into a job you're not qualified for; you're harming all the other actually qualified candidates that didn't get hired instead; you're harming yourself, when your salary comes from a company who rely on you to give something you can't give them.
        Nextgrid 1y ago
        > they hire you into a job you're not qualified for Interviewing has long been disconnected from the actual job. > who rely on you to give something you can't give them. That's what firing is for.
  - ikekkdcjkfke 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - sohzm 1y ago
    there was already a paid and closed source application, i didnt create anything new
  - giantg2 1y ago
    I won't use it, but I do see it as somewhat symmetric. If the interviewers are using AI or expecting you to use AI for these tasks once you're on the job, then it doesn't seem completely immoral.
    - dheerajvs 1y ago
      That's assuming all interviewers are using AI. And if it's not immoral, why do it surreptitiously?
      - giantg2 1y ago
        Not just interviewers, but tasks at the company. How many companies are not allowing you to use copilot or similar once you're hired? Morality and restrictions are two different things. Just because someone makes up a rule doesn't mean it's morally enforceable.
  - elcapitan 1y ago
    If a question you are asking in an interview can be answered immediately by an AI, then why hire for that position in the first place?
  - xandrius 1y ago
    Probably you've been out of the getting hired game but I had a glimpse of it last year: absolutely terrible. When I started you'd send a mail to the company directly about a position, you'd go to the office, have a short interview, meet the team and they'll let you know. That's it. Now it's 2 rounds of HR bs, 3 layers of tech interviews, then meet the CEO/CTO/etc. And then references and then a final "chat". And you still can get ghosted at literally any step, even at the final cozy chat, just because of "vibes". And throw in companies sending you leetcode even before talking to you and you can see why one would want to get through the bs. I still stand about my favourite approach for tech jobs: intro and tech chat (1-2h) about your resume, what you'll be doing and anything you might have questions about (no challenges or stupid riddles). Then, if everything goes smoothly, you get a 2 weeks contract and you are in probation. If everything goes well, you get another contract for 3-6 months (up to you to accept or not) and then you get converted to permanent if everything went well for both parties.
    - dpb001 1y ago
      I am old and thankfully out of the getting hired game. I was cleaning out some files (paper!) recently and ran across correspondence from old job searches. As you said, single visit and decision. I was also struck by the number of letters from companies thanking me for my resume and politely telling me they were passing but would keep me in mind for future openings. It was not uncommon to receive a letter directly from the hiring manager thanking me for coming to an interview.
    - Hasnep 1y ago
      A two week probation means that nearly all candidates will need to quit their current job to do the probation which seems unlikely to be popular with candidates
      - macintux 1y ago
        Right. The only way I’d accept an “opportunity” like that is if I’m unemployed.
      - xandrius 1y ago
  - cootsnuck 1y ago
    Honestly, why would you care? IF, and this is a big if, you are confident your interview process accurately assesses the abilities of candidates to carry out the role, then why would LLM assistance even matter? Are they not going to be allowed to use LLMs on the job? This faux-outrage is just showing how broken the whole hiring process is in tech. Stop giving people puzzles and just talk to them. If you're unable to evaluate if someone's a good fit for a role then you either need to learn more about effective interviewing, learn more about the role, or find someone else who is good at hiring/interviewing. This has all been a long time coming.
  - pxc 1y ago
    > unless you're very watchful by looking for academic responses to questions I've noticed that a lot of the supposed hallmarks of "AI slop writing" (em-dashes, certain multisyllabic words, frequent use of metaphor) are also just hallmarks of professional and academic writing. (It's true that some of them are clichés, of course.) It seems like most efforts to instruct people on how to "fight back against AI writing" effectively instruct them to punish highly literate people as well. I think it's often still possible to tell human writing that uses some of the same tropes or vocabulary apart from AI writing, but it's very vibes-based. I've yet to see specific guidance or characterizations of AI writing that won't also flag journalists, academics, and many random geeks.
  - pxc 1y ago
    Indeed, I am sympathetic to the author in this situation because I think open-source is important, but I don't approve of this software and don't want to affiliate with it by even starring it on GitHub. Not really sure what I can do for the author but say "that sucks, bro".
  - hoistbypetard 1y ago
    Get ready to start having some fun in your interviews. Start including things like redirection of focus through general statements, unrelated (and false) trivia, and misleading suggestions in your interview questions. Most of the humans you'd like to hire will ignore those or ask you about them. Many LLMs will be derailed into giving entertainingly wrong answers: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.01781 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.01781

litexlang 1y ago

[dead]

npsomaratna 1y ago

Not the developer, but here is his repo: https://github.com/sohzm/cheating-daddy https://github.com/sohzm/cheating-daddy

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
dheerajvs 1y ago
As an interviewer, I'm seeing a huge increase in proportion of candidates cheating surreptitiously during video interviews. And it's becoming difficult to suspect any wrong-doing unless you're very watchful by looking for academic responses to questions. Why would anyone encourage building such a tool, I can't fathom.
- zettabomb 1y ago
  It's pretty simple - people need to eat (and fulfill other basic needs, of course), to eat they need jobs, to get jobs they need to pass the interview. The hiring process in a lot of industries is heavily gamed at this point, to the point that not cheating is basically an automatic fail. So, if you want to eat, you cheat.
  - Simon_O_Rourke 1y ago
    Doing whatever it takes to get the foot in the door may be encouraged, but only to a point and I think out and out cheating is probably crossing a line... As would murder, arson etc. etc. If cheating means asking someone in the company you're interviewing for a peek at what will be asked then great. In my book that's using leverage. Reviewing previously posted interview tests is probably recommended. Hooking up a copilot to answer interview questions for you in real time is probably less so.
    - Gregaros 1y ago
      > If cheating means asking someone in the company you're interviewing for a peek at what will be asked then great. In my book that's using leverage. In my book that is unambiguously unethical and should get the contact fired. I am shocked to see this approach promoted in such a blasé manner.
      - Simon_O_Rourke 1y ago
        How is it unethical? Say you ask whoever what's being asked and they say you need to sort a string in place and then discuss how a random forest gets trained... You still need to answer those questions AND know enough to answer the follow up questions. If you're no good you'll be still found out. It just means you'll have a head start over someone without those kinds of contacts. So what level of utilizing your professional network crosses a line? Does a recommendation cross a line because I know for a fact that internal recommendations are moved to the head of the queue in most companies.
        Gregaros 1y ago
        Presumably the value in knowing "you need to sort a string in place and then discuss how a random forest gets trained" is that it impacts your answers - for instance, by allowing you to look this up before the interview while appearing to the interviewers to he operating unfer the dame conditions as the other candidates, who did not know to. Your performance then appears as a signal of broader inwoledge and capability than you possess - you have, as is the entire point here and which I should not need to spell out, gained an advantage over other candidates by virtue of the information which was intentionally leaked. If the point of the interview were "answer those questions AND know enough to answer the follow up questions" _once told what to expect and prep_, they’d be sharing those questions with all candidates. If you feel that saying to the interviewers "by the way, I did know this because [X] told me they’d be here" wouldn’t impact outcomes, then great. If you feel you’d need to hide that, then you’re aware this involves dishonesty - and if you still struggle to see how that’s unethical, lets just make sure we never need to work together.
  - Grikbdl 1y ago
    > The hiring process in a lot of industries is heavily gamed at this point, to the point that not cheating is basically an automatic fail. This sound a bit of "thief thinks everyone steals". Interview preparation is normal and common but I don't think cheating is. May depend on the location of course.
    - nottorp 1y ago
      The "heavily gaming" happens before the interview. When you reorder and edit your resume to have the right keywords to get on top of the LLM/intern sorted pile.
  - dahart 1y ago
    > if you want to eat, you cheat. I can totally understand thinking this way out of desperation, and being lulled into thinking it’s this simple, but it seems short sighted with hidden complexities. First of all, it’s risky. If you get caught, you don’t eat, and it could follow you and prevent you from even getting in the door elsewhere. Companies are always going to be watching for cheaters, they are always going to have more visibility than you into what interviewees are doing, and they are always going to have more resources. Even if you do cheat and get hired, it quickly becomes obvious that you’re unqualified and can’t do what you claimed, and even if you don’t lose your job, you’re less likely to get promoted. Being lazy and amoral about interviews seems like a trap people set for themselves. The good news is that a lot of companies are starting to allow AI during the interviews, and suddenly it’s not cheating. But of course that means you need to be good at using AI and interviewing and programming, you won’t be able to cheat and rely on the AI to do your talking for you.
- koffiezet 1y ago
  When interviewers use LLM gargbage to filter out participants, expect candidates to do the same.
  - dheerajvs 1y ago
    I don't use LLMs to filter out participants and I expect candidates not to use LLMs to cheat.
    - nottorp 1y ago
      Then you can't compete with other recruiters who do. "AI" will take your job!
    - hopelite 1y ago
      Have you tried putting yourself in the perspective of the humans trying to find a job in a market that is turning over now and was already dystopian before AI was injected into a dystopian, hellish process of “putting on a tie and using a firm handshake” to apply into the void.
      - gwd 1y ago
        This is so stupid. One of the main reasons it's become a dystopian, hellish process is because people cheat; proliferating cheating will make it even worse. Lying and cheating on a job interview isn't a victimless crime. You're harming the company and all your coworkers when they hire you into a job you're not qualified for; you're harming all the other actually qualified candidates that didn't get hired instead; you're harming yourself, when your salary comes from a company who rely on you to give something you can't give them.
        Nextgrid 1y ago
        > they hire you into a job you're not qualified for Interviewing has long been disconnected from the actual job. > who rely on you to give something you can't give them. That's what firing is for.
- ikekkdcjkfke 1y ago
  [flagged]
- sohzm 1y ago
  there was already a paid and closed source application, i didnt create anything new
- giantg2 1y ago
  I won't use it, but I do see it as somewhat symmetric. If the interviewers are using AI or expecting you to use AI for these tasks once you're on the job, then it doesn't seem completely immoral.
  - dheerajvs 1y ago
    That's assuming all interviewers are using AI. And if it's not immoral, why do it surreptitiously?
    - giantg2 1y ago
      Not just interviewers, but tasks at the company. How many companies are not allowing you to use copilot or similar once you're hired? Morality and restrictions are two different things. Just because someone makes up a rule doesn't mean it's morally enforceable.
- elcapitan 1y ago
  If a question you are asking in an interview can be answered immediately by an AI, then why hire for that position in the first place?
- xandrius 1y ago
  Probably you've been out of the getting hired game but I had a glimpse of it last year: absolutely terrible. When I started you'd send a mail to the company directly about a position, you'd go to the office, have a short interview, meet the team and they'll let you know. That's it. Now it's 2 rounds of HR bs, 3 layers of tech interviews, then meet the CEO/CTO/etc. And then references and then a final "chat". And you still can get ghosted at literally any step, even at the final cozy chat, just because of "vibes". And throw in companies sending you leetcode even before talking to you and you can see why one would want to get through the bs. I still stand about my favourite approach for tech jobs: intro and tech chat (1-2h) about your resume, what you'll be doing and anything you might have questions about (no challenges or stupid riddles). Then, if everything goes smoothly, you get a 2 weeks contract and you are in probation. If everything goes well, you get another contract for 3-6 months (up to you to accept or not) and then you get converted to permanent if everything went well for both parties.
  - dpb001 1y ago
    I am old and thankfully out of the getting hired game. I was cleaning out some files (paper!) recently and ran across correspondence from old job searches. As you said, single visit and decision. I was also struck by the number of letters from companies thanking me for my resume and politely telling me they were passing but would keep me in mind for future openings. It was not uncommon to receive a letter directly from the hiring manager thanking me for coming to an interview.
  - Hasnep 1y ago
    A two week probation means that nearly all candidates will need to quit their current job to do the probation which seems unlikely to be popular with candidates
    - macintux 1y ago
      Right. The only way I’d accept an “opportunity” like that is if I’m unemployed.
    - xandrius 1y ago
- cootsnuck 1y ago
  Honestly, why would you care? IF, and this is a big if, you are confident your interview process accurately assesses the abilities of candidates to carry out the role, then why would LLM assistance even matter? Are they not going to be allowed to use LLMs on the job? This faux-outrage is just showing how broken the whole hiring process is in tech. Stop giving people puzzles and just talk to them. If you're unable to evaluate if someone's a good fit for a role then you either need to learn more about effective interviewing, learn more about the role, or find someone else who is good at hiring/interviewing. This has all been a long time coming.
- pxc 1y ago
  > unless you're very watchful by looking for academic responses to questions I've noticed that a lot of the supposed hallmarks of "AI slop writing" (em-dashes, certain multisyllabic words, frequent use of metaphor) are also just hallmarks of professional and academic writing. (It's true that some of them are clichés, of course.) It seems like most efforts to instruct people on how to "fight back against AI writing" effectively instruct them to punish highly literate people as well. I think it's often still possible to tell human writing that uses some of the same tropes or vocabulary apart from AI writing, but it's very vibes-based. I've yet to see specific guidance or characterizations of AI writing that won't also flag journalists, academics, and many random geeks.
- pxc 1y ago
  Indeed, I am sympathetic to the author in this situation because I think open-source is important, but I don't approve of this software and don't want to affiliate with it by even starring it on GitHub. Not really sure what I can do for the author but say "that sucks, bro".
- hoistbypetard 1y ago
  Get ready to start having some fun in your interviews. Start including things like redirection of focus through general statements, unrelated (and false) trivia, and misleading suggestions in your interview questions. Most of the humans you'd like to hire will ignore those or ask you about them. Many LLMs will be derailed into giving entertainingly wrong answers: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.01781 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.01781