24 ms·

In Europe this (some rec drugs bring out latent schizophrenia) is taught in med school as a “known fact” (source: psychiatrist friend) so it’s well beyond “star

by tony69 1y ago

In Europe this (some rec drugs bring out latent schizophrenia) is taught in med school as a “known fact” (source: psychiatrist friend) so it’s well beyond “starting to seem”

el_benhameen 1y ago
This was treated as pretty much a fact when I took a class on psychological disorders in the US circa 2007, too.
- winrid 1y ago
  Ah okay, good to know!
- kurthr 1y ago
  Marijuana was known to do this in 1936. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kg0sK-dY98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kg0sK-dY98
- gwbas1c 1y ago
  This was discovered pretty much early on when LSD was first discovered. One of the early (cough) "uses" for LSD was for medical professionals to simulate what some patients experience. (At least that's what I remember from "LSD, My Problem Child" by Albert Hoffman. Granted, it's been ~30 years since I read it.
anthk 1y ago
And at High School too on talks about drugs; the marijuana->schizophrenia link it's widely known.
- morkalork 1y ago
  Unfortunately it's hammered on so hard, and without nuance, that kids will discard it with the other half-truths that are told. And also the tendency for families to cover up and hide any "shameful" facts like uncle Jim having spent some time in a facility, that kids might not know at all that there's a family history.
  - mystified5016 1y ago
    DARE is one of the reasons I started smoking cigarettes. The only time the teacher was ever actually honest was when he described the effects of nicotine. Everything else was half-truths and scary lies. Funny what kids pick up on.
have-a-break 1y ago
The fact that in different parts of the world the voices can be helpful instead of intrusive makes me feel like the drugs are not the problem but how external forces view the drugs or if we really wanna talk like crazy people how the drugs influence the people around you even if they do not directly know you are using the drugs.
- overu589 1y ago
  You’re right and wrong. The voices are quite real, we’re not alone in our own minds, and the it is the greatest taboo of society to discuss. It’s really sad, all of these sharp modernists determined upon the cult of science explanations for everything. Those who refuse to believe our thoughts are not all our own. That much mysticism is rooted in something that merely cannot be explained by the logical empirical mind. Readers will be so upset when a perspective challenges their rehashed psychological diatribes as mountains of lies. They got “help” damn you. Their friends (“real people”) are hurt by the craze and they’re more hurt when someone says “modern science and society is wrong.” The true Truth is whatever existential reality reflects, not what we are prepared to understand. We are not alone in our own minds, we have collectively known this since before our generations and the “straights” of society are so adamant of their self possessed lies they will condemn those insights as crackpot crazy.
  - motorest 1y ago
    > It’s really sad, all of these sharp modernists determined upon the cult of science explanations for everything. That which you try to attack and downplay as "cult of science explanations" is actually something extremely simple: you need to show something, anything at all, that actually supports your beliefs. How can you tell something exists or works as you think it does if you are unable to show it? Do you expect everyone should just believe anything anyone says? What is there to tell lunatics and snake oil salesmen apart from those who are actually onto something? > Those who refuse to believe our thoughts are not all our own. Ok, you formed an hypothesis. Now tell me, how do you go about showing others that things do work the way you think they do? How can they check them for themselves? What do you expect from others? > That much mysticism is rooted in something that merely cannot be explained by the logical empirical mind. If you cannot explain your beliefs, how do you expect others to just take your unverified and unsubstantiated claims as something worth considering over any random claim from any random loony?
euranon96 1y ago
Do you know what is considered as "latent schizophrenia"? Is it like in your 40's or 30's or just couple years after the mean?
- lucidrains 1y ago
  if you are a man and make it past age of 29 without starting to hear voices, you can breathe a sigh of relief (I did)
  - kadushka 1y ago
    Were you afraid you had it at 29?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - amarait 1y ago
    We dont even know what constitutes a mental voice. Hell, a huge percentage of people cant hear their own voices in their heads
    - LoganDark 1y ago
      I wonder if there are any schizophrenics with dissociative identity disorder. We're not schizophrenic but we have voices (we don't hear them as from outside though)
      - shippage 1y ago
        I have met a few people online who told me they were diagnosed with both. Schizophrenia spectrum disorders (SSDs) and DID can apparently co-occur. From [0] (2016): > One study showed that in a sample of patients diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) 74.3% also met diagnostic criteria of a SSD, 49.5% met diagnostic criteria for schizoaffective disorder, and 18.7% met diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia. The study cited in [0] is dated from 1996, however(!), so it was done not long after the change from changing the name MPD to DID. Not sure how much weight to put on a study that old. From [1] (2022): > Numerous studies have shown that up to 50% of patients with schizophrenia meet the diagnostic criteria for dissociative personality disorder. The two linked studies cited in [1] are dated in 1998 and 2004. So also, still old, but not quite as much. It seems well-known that the two conditions co-occur. I don't have access to the linked studies, however, and am not willing to pay the subscription or single-paper fees. I do have DID but SSDs have been thoroughly ruled out for me (I was checked for both, as well as other potential conditions). My assessment seemed quite thorough. [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5216848/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5216848/ [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8885543/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8885543/

by tony69 1y ago

In Europe this (some rec drugs bring out latent schizophrenia) is taught in med school as a “known fact” (source: psychiatrist friend) so it’s well beyond “starting to seem”

el_benhameen 1y ago

This was treated as pretty much a fact when I took a class on psychological disorders in the US circa 2007, too.

winrid 1y ago
Ah okay, good to know!
kurthr 1y ago
Marijuana was known to do this in 1936. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kg0sK-dY98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kg0sK-dY98
gwbas1c 1y ago
This was discovered pretty much early on when LSD was first discovered. One of the early (cough) "uses" for LSD was for medical professionals to simulate what some patients experience. (At least that's what I remember from "LSD, My Problem Child" by Albert Hoffman. Granted, it's been ~30 years since I read it.

anthk 1y ago

And at High School too on talks about drugs; the marijuana->schizophrenia link it's widely known.

morkalork 1y ago
Unfortunately it's hammered on so hard, and without nuance, that kids will discard it with the other half-truths that are told. And also the tendency for families to cover up and hide any "shameful" facts like uncle Jim having spent some time in a facility, that kids might not know at all that there's a family history.
- mystified5016 1y ago
  DARE is one of the reasons I started smoking cigarettes. The only time the teacher was ever actually honest was when he described the effects of nicotine. Everything else was half-truths and scary lies. Funny what kids pick up on.

have-a-break 1y ago

The fact that in different parts of the world the voices can be helpful instead of intrusive makes me feel like the drugs are not the problem but how external forces view the drugs or if we really wanna talk like crazy people how the drugs influence the people around you even if they do not directly know you are using the drugs.

overu589 1y ago
You’re right and wrong. The voices are quite real, we’re not alone in our own minds, and the it is the greatest taboo of society to discuss. It’s really sad, all of these sharp modernists determined upon the cult of science explanations for everything. Those who refuse to believe our thoughts are not all our own. That much mysticism is rooted in something that merely cannot be explained by the logical empirical mind. Readers will be so upset when a perspective challenges their rehashed psychological diatribes as mountains of lies. They got “help” damn you. Their friends (“real people”) are hurt by the craze and they’re more hurt when someone says “modern science and society is wrong.” The true Truth is whatever existential reality reflects, not what we are prepared to understand. We are not alone in our own minds, we have collectively known this since before our generations and the “straights” of society are so adamant of their self possessed lies they will condemn those insights as crackpot crazy.
- motorest 1y ago
  > It’s really sad, all of these sharp modernists determined upon the cult of science explanations for everything. That which you try to attack and downplay as "cult of science explanations" is actually something extremely simple: you need to show something, anything at all, that actually supports your beliefs. How can you tell something exists or works as you think it does if you are unable to show it? Do you expect everyone should just believe anything anyone says? What is there to tell lunatics and snake oil salesmen apart from those who are actually onto something? > Those who refuse to believe our thoughts are not all our own. Ok, you formed an hypothesis. Now tell me, how do you go about showing others that things do work the way you think they do? How can they check them for themselves? What do you expect from others? > That much mysticism is rooted in something that merely cannot be explained by the logical empirical mind. If you cannot explain your beliefs, how do you expect others to just take your unverified and unsubstantiated claims as something worth considering over any random claim from any random loony?

euranon96 1y ago

Do you know what is considered as "latent schizophrenia"? Is it like in your 40's or 30's or just couple years after the mean?

lucidrains 1y ago
if you are a man and make it past age of 29 without starting to hear voices, you can breathe a sigh of relief (I did)
- kadushka 1y ago
  Were you afraid you had it at 29?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- amarait 1y ago
  We dont even know what constitutes a mental voice. Hell, a huge percentage of people cant hear their own voices in their heads
  - LoganDark 1y ago
    I wonder if there are any schizophrenics with dissociative identity disorder. We're not schizophrenic but we have voices (we don't hear them as from outside though)
    - shippage 1y ago
      I have met a few people online who told me they were diagnosed with both. Schizophrenia spectrum disorders (SSDs) and DID can apparently co-occur. From [0] (2016): > One study showed that in a sample of patients diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) 74.3% also met diagnostic criteria of a SSD, 49.5% met diagnostic criteria for schizoaffective disorder, and 18.7% met diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia. The study cited in [0] is dated from 1996, however(!), so it was done not long after the change from changing the name MPD to DID. Not sure how much weight to put on a study that old. From [1] (2022): > Numerous studies have shown that up to 50% of patients with schizophrenia meet the diagnostic criteria for dissociative personality disorder. The two linked studies cited in [1] are dated in 1998 and 2004. So also, still old, but not quite as much. It seems well-known that the two conditions co-occur. I don't have access to the linked studies, however, and am not willing to pay the subscription or single-paper fees. I do have DID but SSDs have been thoroughly ruled out for me (I was checked for both, as well as other potential conditions). My assessment seemed quite thorough. [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5216848/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5216848/ [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8885543/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8885543/