6 ms·

I do not believe it is unintentional.

austin-cheney 1y ago
Until corrective actions with criminal penalties occur incidents like these almost certainly continue with possible increases of frequency and severity. More importantly though when this becomes a matter of conduct and military discipline is that it will spread to other areas even outside Gaza. This isn’t just a matter of vague speculation as there are historical cases outside of Israel on which to see how things like this develop and what the consequences are both for the victims and the soldiers. These historical accounts also indicate soldiers committing these sorts of actions become victims themselves with catastrophic mental health disorders.
- throw9032093 1y ago
  The idea Israeli government would hold anyone accountable is a laughable. Israel got in trouble with ICJ court, because of quotes from top government officials. Government of Israel was very specific what they will do to Gaza! This was even full scale bombing started! Trying to reinterpret this as a problem of "military discipline", and "soldiers are victim as well" is just another level of cynicism!
  - edanm 1y ago
    > The idea Israeli government would hold anyone accountable is a laughable. It's happened, many times. Usually this doesn't make front-page news, but soldiers that break the law are sometimes held accountable. Not nearly enough, and I think it should be far more publicized as a deterrent effect (the fact that it isn't is a pretty big indictment of the current government). But it's certainly not laughable.
    - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
      Who is gonna arrest Bibi?
      - HappyPanacea 1y ago
        The same people who arrested Olmert
      - edanm 1y ago
        Well, he is on trial. So he could be arrested. Prime Ministers have been arrested (and jailed!) before. A part of what the Isareli opposition has been pushing for in the last few years has been removing Netanyahu from power and presumably jailing him because of the corruption charges.
    - edanm 1y ago
      Btw, the literal sub-headline of the article includes this sentence: "prompting the military prosecution to call for a review into possible war crimes".
    - cma 1y ago
      For each of their "operations" on Gaza they usually had one or two soldiers in trouble for something like stealing and using a civilians credit card. When there were many more serious crimes like deliberately targeting the disabled.
originalvichy 1y ago
They can take out nuclear scientists thousands of kilometers away by either planting bombs in their cars in traffic or firing accurate munitions through their windows when they sleep. Thousands of kilometers away. The IDF can be highly sophisticated in their plans and methods when they want to.
- alkhatib 1y ago
  Those things you described are also war crimes. Calling it sophisticated does not change that fact.
  - andrepd 1y ago
    I think the point is that if Israel can do pinpoint decapitation strikes anywhere in Iran they sure as hell can do so in Gaza, but they choose to bomb hospitals and flatten every single building in the Gaza Strip instead.
    - ethbr1 1y ago
      This. Israel demonstrably has the capability for precision warfare. That they chose to level infrastructure across Gaza instead is indicative. And it'd be real stretch to assume they did so even for military-economic reasons. They knew the world community would give them some leeway after Oct 7th, so exploited it as far as possible to militarily achieve their geo-political goals. To wit, the elimination of anything resembling a Palestinian state: politically, economically, and demographically. Which is cynical and evil as fuck, given they're smart enough to realize they eventually either have to (a) kill every Palestinian or (b) make a deal. Instead, they decided killing 50,000+ Palestinians was worth improving their negotiation position and kicking the can down the road.
      - acdha 1y ago
        > They knew the world community would give them some leeway after Oct 7th, so exploited it as far as possible to militarily achieve their geo-political goals. That’s my read as well. I was strongly pro-Israel for decades and while I was never comfortable with the plight of Palestinians Hamas had a lot of the blame, too, but the last year really moved me over to thinking that the people who said most of the “accidents” over the years were intentional were correct. They can pull off these amazingly accurate strikes when they want to, it’s implausible that they suddenly have the precision of a drunken 18th century musketeer around aid workers and civilians. Their leadership clearly do not care and collective punishment is a war crime no matter who does it.

Until corrective actions with criminal penalties occur incidents like these almost certainly continue with possible increases of frequency and severity. More importantly though when this becomes a matter of conduct and military discipline is that it will spread to other areas even outside Gaza. This isn’t just a matter of vague speculation as there are historical cases outside of Israel on which to see how things like this develop and what the consequences are both for the victims and the soldiers. These historical accounts also indicate soldiers committing these sorts of actions become victims themselves with catastrophic mental health disorders.

throw9032093 1y ago
The idea Israeli government would hold anyone accountable is a laughable. Israel got in trouble with ICJ court, because of quotes from top government officials. Government of Israel was very specific what they will do to Gaza! This was even full scale bombing started! Trying to reinterpret this as a problem of "military discipline", and "soldiers are victim as well" is just another level of cynicism!
- edanm 1y ago
  > The idea Israeli government would hold anyone accountable is a laughable. It's happened, many times. Usually this doesn't make front-page news, but soldiers that break the law are sometimes held accountable. Not nearly enough, and I think it should be far more publicized as a deterrent effect (the fact that it isn't is a pretty big indictment of the current government). But it's certainly not laughable.
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    Who is gonna arrest Bibi?
    - HappyPanacea 1y ago
      The same people who arrested Olmert
    - edanm 1y ago
      Well, he is on trial. So he could be arrested. Prime Ministers have been arrested (and jailed!) before. A part of what the Isareli opposition has been pushing for in the last few years has been removing Netanyahu from power and presumably jailing him because of the corruption charges.
  - edanm 1y ago
    Btw, the literal sub-headline of the article includes this sentence: "prompting the military prosecution to call for a review into possible war crimes".
  - cma 1y ago
    For each of their "operations" on Gaza they usually had one or two soldiers in trouble for something like stealing and using a civilians credit card. When there were many more serious crimes like deliberately targeting the disabled.

originalvichy 1y ago

They can take out nuclear scientists thousands of kilometers away by either planting bombs in their cars in traffic or firing accurate munitions through their windows when they sleep. Thousands of kilometers away. The IDF can be highly sophisticated in their plans and methods when they want to.

alkhatib 1y ago
Those things you described are also war crimes. Calling it sophisticated does not change that fact.
- andrepd 1y ago
  I think the point is that if Israel can do pinpoint decapitation strikes anywhere in Iran they sure as hell can do so in Gaza, but they choose to bomb hospitals and flatten every single building in the Gaza Strip instead.
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    This. Israel demonstrably has the capability for precision warfare. That they chose to level infrastructure across Gaza instead is indicative. And it'd be real stretch to assume they did so even for military-economic reasons. They knew the world community would give them some leeway after Oct 7th, so exploited it as far as possible to militarily achieve their geo-political goals. To wit, the elimination of anything resembling a Palestinian state: politically, economically, and demographically. Which is cynical and evil as fuck, given they're smart enough to realize they eventually either have to (a) kill every Palestinian or (b) make a deal. Instead, they decided killing 50,000+ Palestinians was worth improving their negotiation position and kicking the can down the road.
    - acdha 1y ago
      > They knew the world community would give them some leeway after Oct 7th, so exploited it as far as possible to militarily achieve their geo-political goals. That’s my read as well. I was strongly pro-Israel for decades and while I was never comfortable with the plight of Palestinians Hamas had a lot of the blame, too, but the last year really moved me over to thinking that the people who said most of the “accidents” over the years were intentional were correct. They can pull off these amazingly accurate strikes when they want to, it’s implausible that they suddenly have the precision of a drunken 18th century musketeer around aid workers and civilians. Their leadership clearly do not care and collective punishment is a war crime no matter who does it.