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I don't know much about electrical grids, but I'm wondering if something like this concept could help South Africa with its endlessly struggling electrical grid

I don't know much about electrical grids, but I'm wondering if something like this concept could help South Africa with its endlessly struggling electrical grid problems. My city constantly has power outages and the majority of people cannot afford installing solar into their homes.

happymellon 1y ago
From what I understand, South Africa's electrical problems have been long term political.
- cinntaile 1y ago
  That's the case everywhere in the world, it's not a tech issue. The tech exists.
  - nbadg 1y ago
    The technology certainly exists, though some of it is pretty new and not all of it is mature or commoditized (particularly in the context of high levels of penetration of variable renewables on the grid). That being said, politics aren't the only reason why it might not be deployed. Capitalization issues, for one, are also common. Additionally, you have to make a judgement call about what you consider included in "politics" -- for example, does corruption count?
  - happymellon 1y ago
    Not always, sometimes its logistics, sometimes outside forces which create time pressures. Not everything can be solved by money, sometimes its a mythical man month/9 women can't produce a baby in 1 month issue. However in this scenario, its pure neglect which is causing power issues.
    - AdamN 1y ago
      In this case though, high reliability electricity delivery is very doable. Many countries achieve 3 9s or higher. Sure there are the issues like the recent Spain/Portugal blackout but even that has some political roots.
    - cogman10 1y ago
      Renewables solve logistics problems. Running a fossil fuel grid requires a bunch of logistics to source, refine, and deliver the fuel. In addition to general equipment upkeep. Renewables only require equipment upkeep.
      - chilldsgn 1y ago
        It's the upkeep problem that is a problem in South Africa. It's like government doesn't understand the concept of "maintenance"
    - hinkley 1y ago
      Most of those problems are politically motivated. You know how fast towns tend to grow. Someone new the grid was going to need upgrades. Someone else decided it would be better spent on something else. That’s politics. And if a town grows surprisingly fast, that may also be politics. Even geopolitics (eg, refugees).
    - bawolff 1y ago
      > Not everything can be solved by money, sometimes its a mythical man month/9 women can't produce a baby in 1 month issue. I mean, its not like they just discovered electricity. Sure sometimes things take time, but that is still a money issue because it means there was insufficient budget for maintainance and future capacity planning
  - mc32 1y ago
    It’s a corruption issue where certain people use it as a personal bank. Lots of deferred maintenance, no build out, but lots of greed -not just a little.
    - cinntaile 1y ago
      The political system there clearly allows for high levels of corruption.
- chilldsgn 1y ago
  Yup, it is deeply political, and I think ordinary citizens such as myself don't even understand how deep the corruption goes.
chithanh 1y ago
It is not necessary for the majority to install solar. Pakistan had similar problems with rolling blackouts, and mass import of photovoltaic equipment and batteries from China has reduced the load on the grid so that outages no longer occur frequently. In fact the demand has shrunk so much that it jeopardizes financing of coal power companies. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43620309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43620309
- dylan604 1y ago
  > In fact the demand has shrunk so much that it jeopardizes financing of coal power companies. That is something that I think would be the impetus needed to motivate reduction in coal power plants. If they become unprofitable to operate, then will the market finally decide to stop using them? Sadly, I could see the current US administration deciding to offer subsidies to keep coal.
  - chithanh 1y ago
    Yes, it is happening already (both the pivot away from unprofitable non-renewable energy, and US government intervention to tax imports of photovoltaics). Levelized Cost of Electricity (LCE) from PV is below the fossil fuel range since 2020, and since 2024 it is also below if you include battery storage, which you need to turn solar into near constant energy supply. https://www.irena.org/Publications/2024/Sep/Renewable-Power-Generation-Costs-in-2023 https://www.irena.org/Publications/2024/Sep/Renewable-Power-... https://electrek.co/2025/06/20/batteries-are-so-cheap-now-solar-power-doesnt-sleep-ember/ https://electrek.co/2025/06/20/batteries-are-so-cheap-now-so...
  - scraptor 1y ago
    Subsidies is too technocratic, trump style is to just order utilities to keep the plants operational at negative profit https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/06/climate/michigan-coal-plant-energy-cost-wright https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/06/climate/michigan-coal-pla...
  - sheepybloke 1y ago
    This has been happening in the US for the past 10 years. The big switch has been away from coal and some slower natural gas generators towards more nimble natural gas generators. Coal and other natural gas generators take a while to start up and shut down (think on the order of a day), which don't work well for coordinating with renewables and are much more expensive to operate. So companies have been switching to faster natural gas generators that start up in minutes to hours to support when demand is higher.
miningape 1y ago
Eskom is already trying to take people to court over "non-compliant" solar panel installations [1]. I wouldn't hold my breath. Like most things in ANC South Africa this is a political issue where Eskom wants to get their cut for providing a non-existent service - and then funnel that money back to their friends and family for their non-existent services. [1] https://www.ecr.co.za/shows/stacey-jsbu/eskom-cracks-down-non-compliant-solar-systems/ https://www.ecr.co.za/shows/stacey-jsbu/eskom-cracks-down-no...
- throw83838484 1y ago
  More likely it is local goverment. Theymake a profit on reselling cheap energy provided by Eskom.
- chilldsgn 1y ago
  Yup... It's about feeding the greedy fat cats at the top. A simple solution like "just install solar" isn't going to solve the problems necessarily, because it originates from greed, mismanagement, corruption at the core. Solar is more of a downstream solution in my mind (correct me if I'm wrong). Demand for coal will be reduced, which might most likely lead to massive job losses in not only the coal mining sector, but also logistics, exacerbating the troubling unemployment issues the country also faces. I don't really want to go down THAT rabbit hole :D
PicassoCTs 1y ago
They tried that - especially companies like BMW - and they got no permits, because the state run power company wants money for providing nothing. The problem is also that thieves steal the copper cables, even for micro-grids. You can not tech your way out of social/cultural problems. Socialist cultural rot is real and the only way out is to eradicate cultures that encourage that mindset. All the ingredients are there- but the people are still set on telling themselves that robin hood story that destroys everything.
- soco 1y ago
  Could you please explain the "socialist cultural rot" and the "eradicate cultures"? You might mean something totally sensible but this wording is quite triggering to me.
  - PicassoCTs 1y ago
    Everywhere socialist movements like the ANC take hold- there sets in a "im going to extract as much as i can from the state as he extracts from me - while giving him nothing" mindset. Its prevalent in the older generations in the eastern european block countries, china - its almost universal where the socialist experiment was run. The idealized society does not mesh and work with human nature at all, in fact it brings out the worst. The old people of china, still steal paper towels on public toilets, because "take it all, while its there, before its gone" is the mindset encouraged. They brought you the tourists-"buffet rush"-genre of videos on youtube. Of course this leads to dysfunction and misery- which then leads to conspiracy - of "they took it". Its ultimately another version of low-thrust society unable to function. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_societies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_socie... A ugly side-effect that lingers for decades. Re-distribution and retribution, do not increase the size of the cake. Hard work rewarded does!
    - soco 1y ago
      Ok, this makes sense. I would only add the low-trust society evolving in the west, including the US, which is definitely not caused by socialism. Maybe it's just the way we (all) fall?
philipallstar 1y ago
South Africa's problem is the ANC stopped Eskom building what it needed with foreseen growth when they came into power in the 90s. They wanted to introduce competition into the generation market. They didn't introduce competition, as you might expect from a hyper-incompetent government, and just let the issue languish, and South Africa now just doesn't have enough power plants to serve its population when it takes one offline for scheduled maintenance. But at least a lot more people got to buy Audis with the freed-up money sloshing around.
hinkley 1y ago
In cases where transmission lines are hitting capacity particularly on hot days, this is a place where batteries can help. Peak shaving is can’t help you with grids that are oversubscribed for more than a few hours a day but they can help load shift for part of the day. The batteries can still have value for emissions reductions if and when you finally get right of ways for more power distribution.
bahmboo 1y ago
South Africa's problems with the electrical system and structure are well documented but also complicated. Here's a good recent video covering it, there are many others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUnR8PBtVW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUnR8PBtVW8

happymellon 1y ago

From what I understand, South Africa's electrical problems have been long term political.

cinntaile 1y ago
That's the case everywhere in the world, it's not a tech issue. The tech exists.
- nbadg 1y ago
  The technology certainly exists, though some of it is pretty new and not all of it is mature or commoditized (particularly in the context of high levels of penetration of variable renewables on the grid). That being said, politics aren't the only reason why it might not be deployed. Capitalization issues, for one, are also common. Additionally, you have to make a judgement call about what you consider included in "politics" -- for example, does corruption count?
- happymellon 1y ago
  Not always, sometimes its logistics, sometimes outside forces which create time pressures. Not everything can be solved by money, sometimes its a mythical man month/9 women can't produce a baby in 1 month issue. However in this scenario, its pure neglect which is causing power issues.
  - AdamN 1y ago
    In this case though, high reliability electricity delivery is very doable. Many countries achieve 3 9s or higher. Sure there are the issues like the recent Spain/Portugal blackout but even that has some political roots.
  - cogman10 1y ago
    Renewables solve logistics problems. Running a fossil fuel grid requires a bunch of logistics to source, refine, and deliver the fuel. In addition to general equipment upkeep. Renewables only require equipment upkeep.
    - chilldsgn 1y ago
      It's the upkeep problem that is a problem in South Africa. It's like government doesn't understand the concept of "maintenance"
  - hinkley 1y ago
    Most of those problems are politically motivated. You know how fast towns tend to grow. Someone new the grid was going to need upgrades. Someone else decided it would be better spent on something else. That’s politics. And if a town grows surprisingly fast, that may also be politics. Even geopolitics (eg, refugees).
  - bawolff 1y ago
    > Not everything can be solved by money, sometimes its a mythical man month/9 women can't produce a baby in 1 month issue. I mean, its not like they just discovered electricity. Sure sometimes things take time, but that is still a money issue because it means there was insufficient budget for maintainance and future capacity planning
- mc32 1y ago
  It’s a corruption issue where certain people use it as a personal bank. Lots of deferred maintenance, no build out, but lots of greed -not just a little.
  - cinntaile 1y ago
    The political system there clearly allows for high levels of corruption.
chilldsgn 1y ago
Yup, it is deeply political, and I think ordinary citizens such as myself don't even understand how deep the corruption goes.

chithanh 1y ago

It is not necessary for the majority to install solar. Pakistan had similar problems with rolling blackouts, and mass import of photovoltaic equipment and batteries from China has reduced the load on the grid so that outages no longer occur frequently. In fact the demand has shrunk so much that it jeopardizes financing of coal power companies. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43620309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43620309

dylan604 1y ago
> In fact the demand has shrunk so much that it jeopardizes financing of coal power companies. That is something that I think would be the impetus needed to motivate reduction in coal power plants. If they become unprofitable to operate, then will the market finally decide to stop using them? Sadly, I could see the current US administration deciding to offer subsidies to keep coal.
- chithanh 1y ago
  Yes, it is happening already (both the pivot away from unprofitable non-renewable energy, and US government intervention to tax imports of photovoltaics). Levelized Cost of Electricity (LCE) from PV is below the fossil fuel range since 2020, and since 2024 it is also below if you include battery storage, which you need to turn solar into near constant energy supply. https://www.irena.org/Publications/2024/Sep/Renewable-Power-Generation-Costs-in-2023 https://www.irena.org/Publications/2024/Sep/Renewable-Power-... https://electrek.co/2025/06/20/batteries-are-so-cheap-now-solar-power-doesnt-sleep-ember/ https://electrek.co/2025/06/20/batteries-are-so-cheap-now-so...
- scraptor 1y ago
  Subsidies is too technocratic, trump style is to just order utilities to keep the plants operational at negative profit https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/06/climate/michigan-coal-plant-energy-cost-wright https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/06/climate/michigan-coal-pla...
- sheepybloke 1y ago
  This has been happening in the US for the past 10 years. The big switch has been away from coal and some slower natural gas generators towards more nimble natural gas generators. Coal and other natural gas generators take a while to start up and shut down (think on the order of a day), which don't work well for coordinating with renewables and are much more expensive to operate. So companies have been switching to faster natural gas generators that start up in minutes to hours to support when demand is higher.

miningape 1y ago

Eskom is already trying to take people to court over "non-compliant" solar panel installations [1]. I wouldn't hold my breath. Like most things in ANC South Africa this is a political issue where Eskom wants to get their cut for providing a non-existent service - and then funnel that money back to their friends and family for their non-existent services. [1] https://www.ecr.co.za/shows/stacey-jsbu/eskom-cracks-down-non-compliant-solar-systems/ https://www.ecr.co.za/shows/stacey-jsbu/eskom-cracks-down-no...

throw83838484 1y ago
More likely it is local goverment. Theymake a profit on reselling cheap energy provided by Eskom.
chilldsgn 1y ago
Yup... It's about feeding the greedy fat cats at the top. A simple solution like "just install solar" isn't going to solve the problems necessarily, because it originates from greed, mismanagement, corruption at the core. Solar is more of a downstream solution in my mind (correct me if I'm wrong). Demand for coal will be reduced, which might most likely lead to massive job losses in not only the coal mining sector, but also logistics, exacerbating the troubling unemployment issues the country also faces. I don't really want to go down THAT rabbit hole :D

PicassoCTs 1y ago

They tried that - especially companies like BMW - and they got no permits, because the state run power company wants money for providing nothing. The problem is also that thieves steal the copper cables, even for micro-grids. You can not tech your way out of social/cultural problems. Socialist cultural rot is real and the only way out is to eradicate cultures that encourage that mindset. All the ingredients are there- but the people are still set on telling themselves that robin hood story that destroys everything.

soco 1y ago
Could you please explain the "socialist cultural rot" and the "eradicate cultures"? You might mean something totally sensible but this wording is quite triggering to me.
- PicassoCTs 1y ago
  Everywhere socialist movements like the ANC take hold- there sets in a "im going to extract as much as i can from the state as he extracts from me - while giving him nothing" mindset. Its prevalent in the older generations in the eastern european block countries, china - its almost universal where the socialist experiment was run. The idealized society does not mesh and work with human nature at all, in fact it brings out the worst. The old people of china, still steal paper towels on public toilets, because "take it all, while its there, before its gone" is the mindset encouraged. They brought you the tourists-"buffet rush"-genre of videos on youtube. Of course this leads to dysfunction and misery- which then leads to conspiracy - of "they took it". Its ultimately another version of low-thrust society unable to function. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_societies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_socie... A ugly side-effect that lingers for decades. Re-distribution and retribution, do not increase the size of the cake. Hard work rewarded does!
  - soco 1y ago
    Ok, this makes sense. I would only add the low-trust society evolving in the west, including the US, which is definitely not caused by socialism. Maybe it's just the way we (all) fall?

philipallstar 1y ago

South Africa's problem is the ANC stopped Eskom building what it needed with foreseen growth when they came into power in the 90s. They wanted to introduce competition into the generation market. They didn't introduce competition, as you might expect from a hyper-incompetent government, and just let the issue languish, and South Africa now just doesn't have enough power plants to serve its population when it takes one offline for scheduled maintenance. But at least a lot more people got to buy Audis with the freed-up money sloshing around.

hinkley 1y ago

In cases where transmission lines are hitting capacity particularly on hot days, this is a place where batteries can help. Peak shaving is can’t help you with grids that are oversubscribed for more than a few hours a day but they can help load shift for part of the day. The batteries can still have value for emissions reductions if and when you finally get right of ways for more power distribution.

bahmboo 1y ago

South Africa's problems with the electrical system and structure are well documented but also complicated. Here's a good recent video covering it, there are many others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUnR8PBtVW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUnR8PBtVW8