7 ms·

Darklang Goes Open Source

165 points by stachudotnet 1y ago

tommica 1y ago
What an interesting project - once this rolls out, absolutely want to try it. There is something delightful about the fundamental idea of a "canvas" as the code editor.
freedomben 1y ago
Was previously "source available" but is now Apache 2. Good choice IMHO! Also looks like it required their cloud setup to run, you previously couldn't run it locally. Now you can, so I think it's moving in the right direction!
cmontella 1y ago
Congrats on Dark for making it this far! Relevent timeline: https://blog.darklang.com/dark-announces-3-5m-in-seed-financing/ https://blog.darklang.com/dark-announces-3-5m-in-seed-financ... (2019) https://blog.darklang.com/dark-and-the-long-term/ https://blog.darklang.com/dark-and-the-long-term/ (2020 - in which the team is fired to extend runway I guess to today) TL;DR: We’re taking a longer term approach to building Dark. As part of this, we’ve made the difficult decision to shrink Dark’s team, and to change how we build both the product and the company." So where do we go from here? Right now, the team is just me. I am committed to realizing the full vision of what Dark should be. Dark is financially healthy for many years, and there is time to think and to plan. I plan to involve the community much more in Dark’s growth, and slowly rebuild the team at a pace appropriate to the product’s maturity, focusing on a small, tight team that can wear many hats. Then there was a pivot to a rewrite of the whole thing, which I think was just Paul at the time: Start of a new rewrite: https://blog.darklang.com/dark-v2-roadmap/ https://blog.darklang.com/dark-v2-roadmap/ (2020) Two years later: https://blog.darklang.com/backend-rewrite-complete/ https://blog.darklang.com/backend-rewrite-complete/ (2022) seemingly a new pivot to "all in" on AI?: https://blog.darklang.com/gpt/ https://blog.darklang.com/gpt/ (2023) No news, one year later https://blog.darklang.com/an-overdue-status-update/ https://blog.darklang.com/an-overdue-status-update/ (2024) Would be interesting to the Dark team to revisit this post, which is a look at PL funding models: https://blog.darklang.com/how-to-fund-caramel/ https://blog.darklang.com/how-to-fund-caramel/ Building programming languages is hard especially when you're not backed by a company. I think Eve (I worked on that one) and Dark were the two major VC funded languages, and at this point I don't think that's a good model for funding this kind of thing. You need waaaaay more that 2-3 million; most of that is funneled directly in to SF landords pockets. Something more like the Mojo people have gotten is what it takes (they've raised upwards of 100 million). Anyway I can't wait to see where Dark goes in the future, and what their funding model will be going forward.
- greener_grass 1y ago
  Mojo's promise is the same code, but faster. They were planning some language extensions but it's more like a compiler project than a programming language project. The truth is, most developers don't want to learn a new language. They will jump through extra hoops just to use their favorite one (e.g. Airflow). Successful languages appear when there is an extreme market demand (C++ providing OOP over C) or, more commonly, a hot new platform that people want to get in on (JavaScript, Swift, Kotlin, C#, ...) For most people, new syntax / semantics is considered a negative and there needs to be some massive upside to overcome that.
- VirusNewbie 1y ago
  Mojo was also less ambitious in a lot of ways. It blows my mind the Eve and Darklang guys raised so much money without a lot of momentum. I'd think you'd go the other way, start an Open Source project, spend 10+ years gaining a community and refining it, then raise money. In both of the above cases, the founders just got bored of their project before they found PMF.
  - cmontella 1y ago
    You just have to look at the landscape at the time. There was a lot of money to be had if you promised the sun and moon, because $2 million wasn't a lot compared to the potential upside. The problem was, and this is what Paul found out too, they wanted to see typical startup metrics before they'd put more money in, and it was always going to take more than $2-3 mil. You just can't demonstrate those with a concept of a language.
    - greener_grass 1y ago
      Do you think Unison will suffer the same fate?
      - cmontella 1y ago
        No, I mean these low bus factor languages don't really die as long as the BDFL keeps working on it. Biggar keeps Dark going through thick and thin. Chiusano likewise with Unison. Even if their Unison public benefit corp runs out of money, Chiusano could probably do what Dark did and buy the IP. With my programming language I'm making sure that there is no IP and therefore nothing to own. It would probably be easy for Biggar to just wash his hand of Dark as well but it takes guts to keep going in a direction you know it right, and so I'm happy to see the project continue.
ChrisArchitect 1y ago
Related: Goodbye Dark, Inc. – Welcome Darklang, Inc https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44290357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44290357
thesurlydev 1y ago
I've been following Dark since its inception and found the idea inspiring. I'm happy about today's announcements and look forward to seeing what comes next. On a personal note, I'm curious around the move to F# as the implementing language and wonder if there will be ports to other languages now that it's open source.
- unstruktured 1y ago
  To F# from what previously?
  - levlaz 1y ago
    Ocaml
  - spooneybarger 1y ago
    OCaml
  - ameliaquining 1y ago
    OCaml. https://blog.darklang.com/leaving-ocaml/ https://blog.darklang.com/leaving-ocaml/
- jhbadger 1y ago
  F# from OCaml isn't much of a leap, though. F# is basically OCaml modified to fit .NET datatypes.
LtWorf 1y ago
Very cool. Now make a page that clearly explains what it is!
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
mrichman 1y ago
[flagged]
- tomhow 1y ago
  This is a generic tangent, and it's against the guidelines to do this. Additionally, the statement "I stopped reading" is just the kind of thing we want to avoid on HN, as it's empty signalling, rather than substantive commentary about the topic. Please avoid commenting like this on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
simonw 1y ago
https://blog.darklang.com/goodbye-dark-inc-welcome-darklang-inc/ https://blog.darklang.com/goodbye-dark-inc-welcome-darklang-... includes this, which is a really interesting pattern that I don't remember hearing about before for this kind of company: > In conversation with our investors and the board, we believed that the best way forward was to shut down the company, as it was clear that an 8 year old product with no traction was not going to attract new investment. In our discussions, we agreed that continuity of the product was in the best interest of the users and the community (and of both founders and investors, who do not enjoy being blamed for shutting down tools they can no longer afford to run), and we agreed that this could best be achieved by selling it to the employees. Any other examples of that? I'm particularly interested in that for this kind of software product.
- asim 1y ago
  Corrected by @justincormack. Post was about Docker Inc.
  - justincormack 1y ago
    Thats not what happened. There was no new company, the company continues to be the same. They didnt sell off the business for money raised.
    - asim 1y ago
      Really? So it was just a recap?
      - pbiggar 1y ago
        Who are we talking about here? Looks like a comment was edited but now it seems like you're talking about Darklang?
        stachudotnet 1y ago
        They were referring to Docker, after some claims regarding some corporate activity (forget details)
vanschelven 1y ago
Because the title at the top links to the blog (not the homepage) I was a bit puzzled as to what Darklang actually _is_. One more click on a similar logo reveals "Darklang puts everything in one box, so you can build CLIs and cloud apps with no bullshit, just code."
- LtWorf 1y ago
  It is no more clear to me now than it was before.
- latentsea 1y ago
  No bullshit, except the company going out of business.
solomonb 1y ago
What are the pros and cons of Dark Lang vs Unison?
sisve 1y ago
I guess darklang was too far ahead in their thinking in some areas and choose the wrong path for other. I really liked the deployless idea, but would have loved in even more on-premise. No way to get the data to stay in Europe. Making hard connections between the editor and the lang was interesting also. Seems like they have moved away from that. Hope there is a easy way to set it up locally, i was really intrigued when they first launched
- pbiggar 1y ago
  Yes, the next version will be able to set up locally - you'll be able to install a single Darklang binary and run any darklang program without any further steps. See the explanations on https://darklang.com https://darklang.com homepage. The issue with the hard connection between the editor and language is that each change becomes a massive undertaking. Making a language improvement was much much much simpler than making the editor change to support it.
  - sisve 1y ago
    It was a bit hard to understand what is coming and what deprecated. As soon as i went into documentation I was send to "darklang classic". How are the deployless senario now? Where you first serve only yourself then your team, then beta, then everyone... Or something similar to that. I really liked how that story was told and how much complexity it removed
notarobot123 1y ago
> We're now building Darklang to run locally as a CLI Dark's structure editor looked promising. I'm really disappointed that the project moved away from this because a hosted visual programming environment felt like the whole value proposition in the first place. Was it the pivot to AI that killed this, was it issues with the design of the language or was the structure editor just not as useful as it seemed?
- pbiggar 1y ago
  Stachu is really interested in bringing back the hosted programming environment in some form fyi. Just need to get the basics working first.
apgwoz 1y ago
In theory, Dark and associated infrastructure for running Dark apps is the perfect companion to LLM based vibe coding… I think, and I am just understanding this now. The goals of Darklang were always “no this, no that, not that either.” And so the focus was not on targeting 3rd party stuff of questionable design, but rather a single integrated set of patterns that abstracted the messy bits away. Turns out, the messy bits are the things that turn your vibe coded Twitter clone into a full time operations job…
tnolet 1y ago
Been following from the sidelines for years. Wish Paul and team invest in a person good at docs, some web design and copy writing. The website, docs, visuals, examples, typography, are just very confusing and feel amateurish. Not blaming. Not everyone is good at everything or wants to make time for it. But a good, well structured landing page with great, real life, examples and good hierarchy backed by awesome docs will make a ton of difference adoption wise. I hope.
fkpalestine 1y ago
[flagged]
jitl 1y ago
Epic's new language, Verse, is also well poised for the "immutable" future of AI agent coding. Verse uses an effects system, and the <transacts> effect is required for any function to change a mutable variable. These changes are transactional, so if you have a failure in your <transacts> function, any changes it made are rolled back at exit. Code still looks imperative-ish, but it's both safe and pure. (Or, it works something like this. The documentation is hard to understand; I'm working mostly on memory from their keynote)
- nylonstrung 1y ago
  Verse is totally proprietary and is still tied to the engine. Trust me that it sucks
mountainriver 1y ago
Am I the only one that thinks this is nonsense? Can someone please explain why I would want this over python or others?
kburman 1y ago
I’ve watched the demo video, and gone through the discussion here but I’m still not sure what the core use case for Darklang is. It feels like I'm missing something obvious. Can someone explain the practical problems this is solving better than existing tools like Python or other backend stacks? Also, genuine question: how was the team able to work on this for 2+ years without revenue or traction? Was there still funding left, or was this a side project during that time?
- rtpg 1y ago
  The theory is that because Dark offers a nice interactive environment when you have a request come in you can inspect the data, "fix up" your code, rerun it quite smoothly. Completely removing the deploy question. Really good for glue projects IMO. Think stuff like google scripts (though google scripts are much more miserable to ues) Many moons ago I had tried to play with Dark and unfortunately the surrounding language stuff really didn't work out for me though. I really liked the concept but ultimately I think I would have preferred if they had just built out the environment on some other language. Even just lua would work decently well for their use cases, if paired with a good "standard" library. The UI was fun to use, in any case. EDIT: to be clear I'm a bit of a type weenie but for the stuff Dark could be good with you really sometimes just want to look at the JSON and poke at it, and your type systems aren't going to be helping you _that much_
  - adastra22 1y ago
    I don't understand. Hot code reloading on my dev laptop gets me this kind of quick iteration when I'm solving problems. But why do I want that in production?
    - rtpg 1y ago
      A user send a request, and gets a response you don't grasp. In Darklang-like envs that request data is held onto for a bit, you can replay it and tweak things. And you don't have to think about environment differences because you're working _in production_. You could be taking webhook values from some external service that starts passing in unknown values. That service's documentation might just be outright wrong about its behavior. But you don't have to play post-mortem forensics, as you can hold onto information. This can be valuable for one-offs where you don't mind breakage, with relatively low request coutns and "time to fix" is what you're optimizing rather than general uptime/downtime. So some silly discord bot could work off of this, but you probably don't want your B2B SaaS being in cowboy mode. Sometimes you want a thing that just does something and you don't care about how busted it is, but you want it to be _very easy_ to fix up issues you do care about.
swyx 1y ago
congrats Paul for landing the plane. i respect your dedication to the cause you see more pressing and have burned bridges for and hope T4P contributes toward the permanent peace we all want.
anonzzzies 1y ago
I was following this since it started. I dislike modern code experiences because of many of the things, especially devops, they fixed. But it being not fully open source always held us back and we developed our own solution with common lisp and some typing sauce that keeps us free from all the modern dev and deploy crap. Everything runs easily on your laptop as well as in the cloud without any difference and, outside running a simple script to set up some vps or cloud hoster. Happy darklang went apache license and looking forward how their deployment looks now as not self hosting is just never ever an option: all companies become frauds in the end so we need to be able to move any time.

165 points by stachudotnet 1y ago

What an interesting project - once this rolls out, absolutely want to try it. There is something delightful about the fundamental idea of a "canvas" as the code editor.

freedomben 1y ago

Was previously "source available" but is now Apache 2. Good choice IMHO! Also looks like it required their cloud setup to run, you previously couldn't run it locally. Now you can, so I think it's moving in the right direction!

cmontella 1y ago

Congrats on Dark for making it this far! Relevent timeline: https://blog.darklang.com/dark-announces-3-5m-in-seed-financing/ https://blog.darklang.com/dark-announces-3-5m-in-seed-financ... (2019) https://blog.darklang.com/dark-and-the-long-term/ https://blog.darklang.com/dark-and-the-long-term/ (2020 - in which the team is fired to extend runway I guess to today) TL;DR: We’re taking a longer term approach to building Dark. As part of this, we’ve made the difficult decision to shrink Dark’s team, and to change how we build both the product and the company." So where do we go from here? Right now, the team is just me. I am committed to realizing the full vision of what Dark should be. Dark is financially healthy for many years, and there is time to think and to plan. I plan to involve the community much more in Dark’s growth, and slowly rebuild the team at a pace appropriate to the product’s maturity, focusing on a small, tight team that can wear many hats. Then there was a pivot to a rewrite of the whole thing, which I think was just Paul at the time: Start of a new rewrite: https://blog.darklang.com/dark-v2-roadmap/ https://blog.darklang.com/dark-v2-roadmap/ (2020) Two years later: https://blog.darklang.com/backend-rewrite-complete/ https://blog.darklang.com/backend-rewrite-complete/ (2022) seemingly a new pivot to "all in" on AI?: https://blog.darklang.com/gpt/ https://blog.darklang.com/gpt/ (2023) No news, one year later https://blog.darklang.com/an-overdue-status-update/ https://blog.darklang.com/an-overdue-status-update/ (2024) Would be interesting to the Dark team to revisit this post, which is a look at PL funding models: https://blog.darklang.com/how-to-fund-caramel/ https://blog.darklang.com/how-to-fund-caramel/ Building programming languages is hard especially when you're not backed by a company. I think Eve (I worked on that one) and Dark were the two major VC funded languages, and at this point I don't think that's a good model for funding this kind of thing. You need waaaaay more that 2-3 million; most of that is funneled directly in to SF landords pockets. Something more like the Mojo people have gotten is what it takes (they've raised upwards of 100 million). Anyway I can't wait to see where Dark goes in the future, and what their funding model will be going forward.

greener_grass 1y ago
Mojo's promise is the same code, but faster. They were planning some language extensions but it's more like a compiler project than a programming language project. The truth is, most developers don't want to learn a new language. They will jump through extra hoops just to use their favorite one (e.g. Airflow). Successful languages appear when there is an extreme market demand (C++ providing OOP over C) or, more commonly, a hot new platform that people want to get in on (JavaScript, Swift, Kotlin, C#, ...) For most people, new syntax / semantics is considered a negative and there needs to be some massive upside to overcome that.
VirusNewbie 1y ago
Mojo was also less ambitious in a lot of ways. It blows my mind the Eve and Darklang guys raised so much money without a lot of momentum. I'd think you'd go the other way, start an Open Source project, spend 10+ years gaining a community and refining it, then raise money. In both of the above cases, the founders just got bored of their project before they found PMF.
- cmontella 1y ago
  You just have to look at the landscape at the time. There was a lot of money to be had if you promised the sun and moon, because $2 million wasn't a lot compared to the potential upside. The problem was, and this is what Paul found out too, they wanted to see typical startup metrics before they'd put more money in, and it was always going to take more than $2-3 mil. You just can't demonstrate those with a concept of a language.
  - greener_grass 1y ago
    Do you think Unison will suffer the same fate?
    - cmontella 1y ago
      No, I mean these low bus factor languages don't really die as long as the BDFL keeps working on it. Biggar keeps Dark going through thick and thin. Chiusano likewise with Unison. Even if their Unison public benefit corp runs out of money, Chiusano could probably do what Dark did and buy the IP. With my programming language I'm making sure that there is no IP and therefore nothing to own. It would probably be easy for Biggar to just wash his hand of Dark as well but it takes guts to keep going in a direction you know it right, and so I'm happy to see the project continue.

ChrisArchitect 1y ago

Related: Goodbye Dark, Inc. – Welcome Darklang, Inc https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44290357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44290357

thesurlydev 1y ago

I've been following Dark since its inception and found the idea inspiring. I'm happy about today's announcements and look forward to seeing what comes next. On a personal note, I'm curious around the move to F# as the implementing language and wonder if there will be ports to other languages now that it's open source.

unstruktured 1y ago
To F# from what previously?
- levlaz 1y ago
  Ocaml
- spooneybarger 1y ago
  OCaml
- ameliaquining 1y ago
  OCaml. https://blog.darklang.com/leaving-ocaml/ https://blog.darklang.com/leaving-ocaml/
jhbadger 1y ago
F# from OCaml isn't much of a leap, though. F# is basically OCaml modified to fit .NET datatypes.

LtWorf 1y ago

Very cool. Now make a page that clearly explains what it is!

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

mrichman 1y ago

[flagged]

tomhow 1y ago
This is a generic tangent, and it's against the guidelines to do this. Additionally, the statement "I stopped reading" is just the kind of thing we want to avoid on HN, as it's empty signalling, rather than substantive commentary about the topic. Please avoid commenting like this on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

simonw 1y ago

https://blog.darklang.com/goodbye-dark-inc-welcome-darklang-inc/ https://blog.darklang.com/goodbye-dark-inc-welcome-darklang-... includes this, which is a really interesting pattern that I don't remember hearing about before for this kind of company: > In conversation with our investors and the board, we believed that the best way forward was to shut down the company, as it was clear that an 8 year old product with no traction was not going to attract new investment. In our discussions, we agreed that continuity of the product was in the best interest of the users and the community (and of both founders and investors, who do not enjoy being blamed for shutting down tools they can no longer afford to run), and we agreed that this could best be achieved by selling it to the employees. Any other examples of that? I'm particularly interested in that for this kind of software product.

asim 1y ago
Corrected by @justincormack. Post was about Docker Inc.
- justincormack 1y ago
  Thats not what happened. There was no new company, the company continues to be the same. They didnt sell off the business for money raised.
  - asim 1y ago
    Really? So it was just a recap?
    - pbiggar 1y ago
      Who are we talking about here? Looks like a comment was edited but now it seems like you're talking about Darklang?
      - stachudotnet 1y ago
        They were referring to Docker, after some claims regarding some corporate activity (forget details)

vanschelven 1y ago

Because the title at the top links to the blog (not the homepage) I was a bit puzzled as to what Darklang actually _is_. One more click on a similar logo reveals "Darklang puts everything in one box, so you can build CLIs and cloud apps with no bullshit, just code."

LtWorf 1y ago
It is no more clear to me now than it was before.
latentsea 1y ago
No bullshit, except the company going out of business.

solomonb 1y ago

What are the pros and cons of Dark Lang vs Unison?

sisve 1y ago

I guess darklang was too far ahead in their thinking in some areas and choose the wrong path for other. I really liked the deployless idea, but would have loved in even more on-premise. No way to get the data to stay in Europe. Making hard connections between the editor and the lang was interesting also. Seems like they have moved away from that. Hope there is a easy way to set it up locally, i was really intrigued when they first launched

pbiggar 1y ago
Yes, the next version will be able to set up locally - you'll be able to install a single Darklang binary and run any darklang program without any further steps. See the explanations on https://darklang.com https://darklang.com homepage. The issue with the hard connection between the editor and language is that each change becomes a massive undertaking. Making a language improvement was much much much simpler than making the editor change to support it.
- sisve 1y ago
  It was a bit hard to understand what is coming and what deprecated. As soon as i went into documentation I was send to "darklang classic". How are the deployless senario now? Where you first serve only yourself then your team, then beta, then everyone... Or something similar to that. I really liked how that story was told and how much complexity it removed

notarobot123 1y ago

> We're now building Darklang to run locally as a CLI Dark's structure editor looked promising. I'm really disappointed that the project moved away from this because a hosted visual programming environment felt like the whole value proposition in the first place. Was it the pivot to AI that killed this, was it issues with the design of the language or was the structure editor just not as useful as it seemed?

pbiggar 1y ago
Stachu is really interested in bringing back the hosted programming environment in some form fyi. Just need to get the basics working first.

apgwoz 1y ago

In theory, Dark and associated infrastructure for running Dark apps is the perfect companion to LLM based vibe coding… I think, and I am just understanding this now. The goals of Darklang were always “no this, no that, not that either.” And so the focus was not on targeting 3rd party stuff of questionable design, but rather a single integrated set of patterns that abstracted the messy bits away. Turns out, the messy bits are the things that turn your vibe coded Twitter clone into a full time operations job…

tnolet 1y ago

Been following from the sidelines for years. Wish Paul and team invest in a person good at docs, some web design and copy writing. The website, docs, visuals, examples, typography, are just very confusing and feel amateurish. Not blaming. Not everyone is good at everything or wants to make time for it. But a good, well structured landing page with great, real life, examples and good hierarchy backed by awesome docs will make a ton of difference adoption wise. I hope.

fkpalestine 1y ago

[flagged]

jitl 1y ago

Epic's new language, Verse, is also well poised for the "immutable" future of AI agent coding. Verse uses an effects system, and the <transacts> effect is required for any function to change a mutable variable. These changes are transactional, so if you have a failure in your <transacts> function, any changes it made are rolled back at exit. Code still looks imperative-ish, but it's both safe and pure. (Or, it works something like this. The documentation is hard to understand; I'm working mostly on memory from their keynote)

nylonstrung 1y ago
Verse is totally proprietary and is still tied to the engine. Trust me that it sucks

mountainriver 1y ago

Am I the only one that thinks this is nonsense? Can someone please explain why I would want this over python or others?

kburman 1y ago

I’ve watched the demo video, and gone through the discussion here but I’m still not sure what the core use case for Darklang is. It feels like I'm missing something obvious. Can someone explain the practical problems this is solving better than existing tools like Python or other backend stacks? Also, genuine question: how was the team able to work on this for 2+ years without revenue or traction? Was there still funding left, or was this a side project during that time?

rtpg 1y ago
The theory is that because Dark offers a nice interactive environment when you have a request come in you can inspect the data, "fix up" your code, rerun it quite smoothly. Completely removing the deploy question. Really good for glue projects IMO. Think stuff like google scripts (though google scripts are much more miserable to ues) Many moons ago I had tried to play with Dark and unfortunately the surrounding language stuff really didn't work out for me though. I really liked the concept but ultimately I think I would have preferred if they had just built out the environment on some other language. Even just lua would work decently well for their use cases, if paired with a good "standard" library. The UI was fun to use, in any case. EDIT: to be clear I'm a bit of a type weenie but for the stuff Dark could be good with you really sometimes just want to look at the JSON and poke at it, and your type systems aren't going to be helping you _that much_
- adastra22 1y ago
  I don't understand. Hot code reloading on my dev laptop gets me this kind of quick iteration when I'm solving problems. But why do I want that in production?
  - rtpg 1y ago
    A user send a request, and gets a response you don't grasp. In Darklang-like envs that request data is held onto for a bit, you can replay it and tweak things. And you don't have to think about environment differences because you're working _in production_. You could be taking webhook values from some external service that starts passing in unknown values. That service's documentation might just be outright wrong about its behavior. But you don't have to play post-mortem forensics, as you can hold onto information. This can be valuable for one-offs where you don't mind breakage, with relatively low request coutns and "time to fix" is what you're optimizing rather than general uptime/downtime. So some silly discord bot could work off of this, but you probably don't want your B2B SaaS being in cowboy mode. Sometimes you want a thing that just does something and you don't care about how busted it is, but you want it to be _very easy_ to fix up issues you do care about.

swyx 1y ago

congrats Paul for landing the plane. i respect your dedication to the cause you see more pressing and have burned bridges for and hope T4P contributes toward the permanent peace we all want.

anonzzzies 1y ago

I was following this since it started. I dislike modern code experiences because of many of the things, especially devops, they fixed. But it being not fully open source always held us back and we developed our own solution with common lisp and some typing sauce that keeps us free from all the modern dev and deploy crap. Everything runs easily on your laptop as well as in the cloud without any difference and, outside running a simple script to set up some vps or cloud hoster. Happy darklang went apache license and looking forward how their deployment looks now as not self hosting is just never ever an option: all companies become frauds in the end so we need to be able to move any time.