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To those wondering about tire wear: "Despite the slightly higher levels of tire wear from EVs, brake dust was found to be more unhealthy, as brake dust is much

To those wondering about tire wear: "Despite the slightly higher levels of tire wear from EVs, brake dust was found to be more unhealthy, as brake dust is much more likely to become airborne (>40%) than tire wear is (1-5%). So EVs create a lot less of the worse thing, and a little more of the less-bad thing."

verisimi 1y ago
So it's even more good news. Yet another way EVs are better.
- HenryBemis 1y ago
  It's not you, it's definitely me. I cannot tell if there is irony or a 'straight-faced' comment that you wrote. Either way, like always, time will tell. We (humans) almost never 'get it right the first time'. And perhaps EVs have been around for quite a while now, it's still 'a while'. So I wouldn't be surprised if the lobby for "7PPD" (or whatever replacement) convinces us that "7PDD" is the best and even makes fish taste better, only to find out that it causes terminal cancer (see smoking, sugar, etc.)
jvm___ 1y ago
Is tire wear worse for aquatic life than brake dust?
- cyberax 1y ago
  Tire wear right now is worse, because tires contain an anti-oxidant that gets oxidized into a compound that is highly toxic to aquatic life. The work is underway to standardize on a replacement. This time with even more tests.
  - chneu 1y ago
    I wonder if this will be like lead in av-gas. Lol.
    - cyberax 1y ago
      Not really. There are plenty of possible replacements, the industry wants to make sure that _this_ time it won't hurt some Australian finches if tires are exposed to moonlight or something.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jabl 1y ago
  There is an additive called 6PPD added to tires to prevent them from degrading in the atmosphere, and it has been found that when this thing reacts with ozone in the air it forms another compound 6PPD-quinone which is highly toxic to some fishes. Weirdly enough it's highly toxic to some species of salmon but not to other salmon species. Presumably there's work ongoing to find an less damaging replacement, but I haven't heard of any. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6PPD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6PPD
llampx 1y ago
I recently bought an EV and love it. I barely ever touch the brakes and the wheels stay clean, unlike my old BMW where the front wheels turned gray from brake dust very quickly. Some comments here are looking for a 100% perfect solution, which doesn't exist. Transportation is polluting. Sorry but even public transportation is polluting, even if it is more efficient when its above a certain utilization. Where I live, some buses are EV and it is a joy to ride them compared to diesel ones. With an EV there is less local pollution, less noise pollution, more dynamic response when needed and no need for wasteful oil "changes" where the old, dirty, useless oil doesn't just magically disappear.
scuderiaseb 1y ago
So putting this aside, the elephant in the room is still the weight of the EVs, tire wear is one thing but the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars. When EVs do have to brake and regenerative is not enough it needs to stop more inertia due to this high weight.
- tpm 1y ago
  > the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars. Are they actually being worn out at a much faster rate because of more EVs? Do we have any data?
  - llampx 1y ago
    It is amazing how much concern trolling there is about EVs on a site like this.
    - tpm 1y ago
      One has to wonder who creates a fresh account just to troll against EVs. Fossil bots perhaps.
      - llampx 1y ago
        Can't rule out automated manipulation and bots on any social media site these days.
      - yencabulator 1y ago
        What's even worse is we're seeing some relatively-new accounts basically commenting LLM summaries of the article; it definitely looks like a way to "fake age" accounts.
      - scuderiaseb 1y ago
        I'm not a bot but I regret posting that as my first comment and to be honest I didn't read the article before it was just my thoughts from prior knowledge. I've been on Hacker News for many years but decided a week ago to make an account. Still you have a good point, one should be skeptical of what is written by bots.
rasz 1y ago
unless you are a salmon https://ecology.wa.gov/blog/january-2023/saving-washington-s-salmon-from-toxic-tire-dust https://ecology.wa.gov/blog/january-2023/saving-washington-s...

verisimi 1y ago

So it's even more good news. Yet another way EVs are better.

HenryBemis 1y ago
It's not you, it's definitely me. I cannot tell if there is irony or a 'straight-faced' comment that you wrote. Either way, like always, time will tell. We (humans) almost never 'get it right the first time'. And perhaps EVs have been around for quite a while now, it's still 'a while'. So I wouldn't be surprised if the lobby for "7PPD" (or whatever replacement) convinces us that "7PDD" is the best and even makes fish taste better, only to find out that it causes terminal cancer (see smoking, sugar, etc.)

jvm___ 1y ago

Is tire wear worse for aquatic life than brake dust?

cyberax 1y ago
Tire wear right now is worse, because tires contain an anti-oxidant that gets oxidized into a compound that is highly toxic to aquatic life. The work is underway to standardize on a replacement. This time with even more tests.
- chneu 1y ago
  I wonder if this will be like lead in av-gas. Lol.
  - cyberax 1y ago
    Not really. There are plenty of possible replacements, the industry wants to make sure that _this_ time it won't hurt some Australian finches if tires are exposed to moonlight or something.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jabl 1y ago
There is an additive called 6PPD added to tires to prevent them from degrading in the atmosphere, and it has been found that when this thing reacts with ozone in the air it forms another compound 6PPD-quinone which is highly toxic to some fishes. Weirdly enough it's highly toxic to some species of salmon but not to other salmon species. Presumably there's work ongoing to find an less damaging replacement, but I haven't heard of any. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6PPD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6PPD

llampx 1y ago

I recently bought an EV and love it. I barely ever touch the brakes and the wheels stay clean, unlike my old BMW where the front wheels turned gray from brake dust very quickly. Some comments here are looking for a 100% perfect solution, which doesn't exist. Transportation is polluting. Sorry but even public transportation is polluting, even if it is more efficient when its above a certain utilization. Where I live, some buses are EV and it is a joy to ride them compared to diesel ones. With an EV there is less local pollution, less noise pollution, more dynamic response when needed and no need for wasteful oil "changes" where the old, dirty, useless oil doesn't just magically disappear.

scuderiaseb 1y ago

So putting this aside, the elephant in the room is still the weight of the EVs, tire wear is one thing but the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars. When EVs do have to brake and regenerative is not enough it needs to stop more inertia due to this high weight.

tpm 1y ago
> the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars. Are they actually being worn out at a much faster rate because of more EVs? Do we have any data?
- llampx 1y ago
  It is amazing how much concern trolling there is about EVs on a site like this.
  - tpm 1y ago
    One has to wonder who creates a fresh account just to troll against EVs. Fossil bots perhaps.
    - llampx 1y ago
      Can't rule out automated manipulation and bots on any social media site these days.
    - yencabulator 1y ago
      What's even worse is we're seeing some relatively-new accounts basically commenting LLM summaries of the article; it definitely looks like a way to "fake age" accounts.
    - scuderiaseb 1y ago
      I'm not a bot but I regret posting that as my first comment and to be honest I didn't read the article before it was just my thoughts from prior knowledge. I've been on Hacker News for many years but decided a week ago to make an account. Still you have a good point, one should be skeptical of what is written by bots.

rasz 1y ago

unless you are a salmon https://ecology.wa.gov/blog/january-2023/saving-washington-s-salmon-from-toxic-tire-dust https://ecology.wa.gov/blog/january-2023/saving-washington-s...