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Show HN: I built a knife steel comparison tool
Hey HN!
I'm a bit of a knife steel geek and got tired of juggling tabs to compare stats. So, I built this tool: https://new.knife.day/blog/knife-steel-comparisons/all https://new.knife.day/blog/knife-steel-comparisons/all
It lets you pick steels (like the ones in the screenshot) and see a radar chart comparing their edge retention, toughness, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening on a simple 1-10 scale.
It's already been super handy for me, and I thought fellow knife/metallurgy enthusiasts here might find it useful too.
Would love to hear your thoughts or any steel requests!
Cheers!
- L29Ah 1y agowhere <noscript>??
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kurthr 1y agoIt seems like the steel data comes from larger database on hardness/toughness/corrosion? Can you say where that data is coming from or if it's your own measurements? If you could show the data (eg HRC) that supports the radar chart it would be easier for a purchaser to know if their steel actually meets the purported performance after purchase. I guess what confuses me most is that heat treatment/hardening seem crucial to understanding how a knife is going to perform, but that seems left out. It's even possible to have a great treatment on a blank and screw it up (overheat) when doing the initial edge shaping. Furthermore, the sharpening angle of a blade edge seems to greatly affect edge retention especially for softer steels. It would be great to know what angles different (properly hardened) steels could reasonably support. That's something the user can control after purchase.
- LarsAlereon 1y agoLooking at some of the comparisons, the data appears to be (I could be wrong) scraped from this article by Dr Larrin Thomas based on his personal research and testing, possibly also including some of the other articles on his website: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/knife-steels-rated-by-a-metallurgist-toughness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/ https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/knife-steels-rated-by...
- Zak 1y agoThere are some mismatches, such as OP rating M2's edge retention at 6 while Thomas rates it at 4.
- bberenberg 1y agoI would be interested to see all the steel types ranked by total surface area within the polygon.
- p-s-v 1y agogood idea... i could add that
- smiley1437 1y agoI went through manually and these appear to have the highest volumes: H1 H2 CPM Magnacut Sandvik 12C27 Interestingly they are all weak on Edge Retention.
- shawn_w 1y agoCalling magnacut weak on edge retention is an... interesting take. It's not record setting, but it's far, far above the other 3 you listed. The data this site is using really seems questionable.
- Zak 1y agoMagnacut is given the same rating as D2, 3V, VG10, and "440" (presumabbly 440C). Elmax, M2, and Cruwear are rated higher. CATRA testing by Magnacut's creator[0] suggests D2, 3V, VG10, and 440C should have a lower rating than Magnacut for edge retention, while Elmax, M2, and Cruwear should be the same. 5 probably is a reasonable rating for Magnacut though when Maxamet is 10. [0] https://i2.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/CATRA-edge-retention-8-23-2022.jpg https://i2.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/202...
- shawn_w 1y agoExotic outliers like Maxamet or 10V skew things so much they should be left off of ranking scales.
- 1y ago
- reconnecting 1y agoImpressive work. I've always wondered how it's possible to "decompile" steel types. For example, one of my everyday use knives is a Kabelmesser pocket knife (WW2). It's probably from Solingen, although there's no logo on it. I really like it because of the high-carbon steel, but I have no idea what specific type of steel was used, as I don't see much of such steel these days.
- Onavo 1y agoIt's not hard, just expensive. You need to pay a lab to do it, and the testing is very much destructive most of the time.
- dehrmann 1y agoXRF might be able to non-destructively tell you the alloy.
- bobmcnamara 1y agoThe magic spice gun was my first thought as well, but they struggle to measure lighter elements like carbon.
- adamgordonbell 1y agoAnyone else like ceramic knives? I have a couple paring knives. Super sharp but very brittle.
- virtue3 1y agoLeans too far into disposable culture. Even a solid steel knife and a cheap electric sharpener will last longer. And you can sharpen all your paring knives etc.
- MrBuddyCasino 1y agoI would never buy a knife you can’t sharpen. Nothing stays sharp forever.
- adamgordonbell 1y agoThey can be sharpened to a very sharp edge that they retain for a long long time. In my vague home use, brittleness leading to chipping is more of an issue.
- jofer 1y agoWe received a two knife set as a wedding gift many years ago. This was well before they were common, and it was quite a nice gift. I strongly agree with the "don't buy a knife you can't sharpen" point that folks often make, but ceramic knives do have their niche. They're great for minimizing oxidation along cuts. E.g. cutting iceberg lettuce and avoiding having the edges turn brown. They're also very lightweight, which is nice for some things, while being bad for others. I'd never use them the way I do my workhorse chef's knife, but there are certainly tasks I prefer them for. Dicing lots of hot peppers comes to mind, oddly enough, as does some very precise and relatively tedious knifework like making very even matchstick cuts for carrots/radishes/etc (the large one has a very wide blade, which is great for this, and is lightweight enough to reduce fatigue). Overall, I can see why folks like them. It's not really the "no need to sharpen" point. It's more the "lightweight and very thin" part, along with a non-oxidizing edge. I'm still kind of opposed on principle, I suppose, but I do use the set we were gifted fairly often, despite having some very nice steel cutlery that I'm very fond of. I can't blame anyone for buying them now that they're priced more reasonably than they used to be.
- LooseMarmoset 1y agoAs a knife-maker, may I request 80CRV, 1084, and 1075? They're very commonly-used steel grades in knives. Also, 440 has a number of grades. Cool tool! EDIT: It might also be interesting to point out the manganese levels, and whether the steel is a deep- or shallow-hardening steel. Those factors help indicate whether the steel will form a hamon or not.
- p-s-v 1y agoyes, I will add this info. thanks for the feedback
- globular-toast 1y agoAlso maybe the steel that Wusthof uses, whatever it is. They don't seem to tell you what is, though.
- williadc 1y agoIt's very likely 8cr13mov, which is listed
- Zak 1y agoWüsthof prints the steel it uses on the blades of many of its knives: X50CrMoV15[0], which is also called 1.4116 and 5Cr15MoV. It's not in OP's tool, but this article[1] by metallurgist Larrin Thomas includes it. His ratings are 2.5 for toughness, 2.5 for wear resistance, and 8 for corrosion resistance. It is a bad steel for any kind of knife and especially bad at Wüsthof's prices. [0] https://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=X50CrMoV15&ni=622&hrn=1&gm=0 https://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=X50CrMoV... [1] https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/knife-steels-rated-by-a-metallurgist-toughness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/ https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/knife-steels-rated-by...
- Retr0id 1y ago> [Maybe attach the screenshot here if HN allows, or link to it] I think the AI intended for you to edit out this part?
- loloquwowndueo 1y agoShhh, I like those placeholders as dead giveaways that content was AI-produced. Don’t call too much attention to them or we’ll lose this way of identifying slop :)
- FieryTransition 1y agoI'm fine with ai slop if it provides value, the value here being questionable, because now I don't know if the values in the comparison are fact checked or hallucinations.
- Retr0id 1y agoI suspect they're hallucinated. As a random spot check: https://new.knife.day/item/spyderco-paramilitary-2 https://new.knife.day/item/spyderco-paramilitary-2 "The Spyderco Paramilitary 2 is a tactical knife with a 3.44 inch blade. The knife is made in USA of CPM S35VN steel." It's a real knife, and the blade length checks out (to two significant figures), but the manufacturer spec sheet says S45VN steel. Also the actual name is "Para Military® 2". https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C81GS2/2090 https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C81GS2/2090
- eichin 1y agoHmm, it feels like there'd be some interesting crossover between this and https://seattleultrasonics.com/pages/knife-database https://seattleultrasonics.com/pages/knife-database but while the "Quantified Knife Project" has a lot of numeric test-result data, it looks like they only have "marketing names" for the steel used (if you click through the links in the "model name" column for each knife.) (Ah, the raw data is available https://github.com/seattleultrasonics/Quantified-Knife-Project/blob/main/Data/Quantified%20Knife%20Project%20Source%20Data.xlsx https://github.com/seattleultrasonics/Quantified-Knife-Proje... has a "Blades" tab which might be enough to correlate.)
- p-s-v 1y agothanks for sharing, i will check these out... previously was unaware of these
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- keisborg 1y agoI looked through most of the charts, and I it seems like you cannot get the best of two worlds. Can you get good edge retention, ease of sharpening and toughness at the same time? It would be nice with an example on how knife steel properties work. I assume there are balanced tradeoffs.
- p-s-v 1y agothat is correct, edge retention, ease of sharpening and toughness usually come at a trade off to one another. A harder blade is more brittle (less tough) and keeps its edge longer... but is also more difficult to sharpen once it gets dull.... generally speaking.
- johnisgood 1y agoH1 and H2 seems to fare well on all properties except edge retention. I would probably be interested in a knife that has high corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention; ease of sharpening might not be that much of a concern, personally, but correct me if I am wrong and it actually matters despite toughness.
- Zak 1y ago"Edge retention" is mostly achieved through high abrasion resistance. Sharpening is removing material by abrasion until the edge has a small radius, so ease of sharpening is mostly achieved through low abrasion resistance. Being soft or brittle can also make forming a sharp edge difficult, requiring very light pressure in the final phases of sharpening to remove or avoid creating a burr in the case of softness, and to avoid chipping in the case of brittleness. Of course all of these properties are affected by the heat treatment, which is often more important to the performance of the knife than the composition of the steel.
- cullenking 1y agoCruwear! from my practical testing, it's been the best I've tried. From the tool, it represents quite well.
- Brian_K_White 1y ago
- out-of-ideas 1y agocomparison is kind of fun; i'd recommend keeping static colors per selection though (when toggling items, the change to colors of items already in the graph made it a bit annoying to decipher)
- dvh 1y agoSo what do knife people think about outdoors55?
- whalesalad 1y agoTangent: I had a decent benchmade griptilian folding knife for the last 10 or so years. Wasn’t the sharpest knife but I loved the form factor, grip, etc. I left it on the bed cover of my truck the other day while unboxing some towing equipment in a parking lot and took off accidentally. Looked at Amazon to replace it and they’re going for $200+ now. Is this just Amazon tax? Tarrifs? Something else? No way in hell I paid that for it initially. It was probably $50! It’s listed at $160 on their website right now. Why?!?! It’s a simple plastic body and a small piece of steel. Make this make sense.
- zikduruqe 1y agoTelevision, survival, bushcraft, social media. It used to be knowledge based survival skills, but today it is all gear based survival skills. Prices have gone crazy.
- jerrac 1y agoLook up the Ritter Houge, or something like that. I think it's a less (maybe) expensive version of the griptilian from the same designer. I think. Could be wrong.
- shawn_w 1y agoHouge's the brand. RSK-Mk1 is the model (Ritter Survival Knife). Sold exclusively at https://knifeworks.com/dr/ https://knifeworks.com/dr/ Benchmade used to make a variant of their Griptilian that he designed (the "Ritter Grip", and when they discontinued it, Hogue stepped up (proceeds go to support Ritter's https://kniferights.org/ https://kniferights.org/ organization)
- whalesalad 1y agoYikes those are all extremely expensive for what they are.
- Zak 1y agoHere's a parametric search for other knives that are made in the USA out of the same materials. They're all expensive. Fortunately, there are very good pocket knives for under a third the price from brands like Civivi, Vosteed, and CJRB if those specific points aren't critical. https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Pocket-Knives--45?sort=price_asc#/filter:country_of_origin:USA/filter:blade_material:CPM+MagnaCut/filter:handle_material:G-10 https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Pocket-Knives--45?sort=price_as...
- williadc 1y agoSandvik 14c28n is common for budget knives. It would be nice to see it on this list.
- p-s-v 1y agowill add, thanks
- antisthenes 1y agoObligatory link to the amazing blog about knife sharpness: https://scienceofsharp.com/ https://scienceofsharp.com/
- p-s-v 1y agoamazing, thank you
- hunter-gatherer 1y agoCool tool. I recently picked up a White River knife in CPM Magnacut. I could have used this tool when I was shopping around, but it looks like I landed on a good knife steel anyways. I haven't used it enougj yet to work on sharpening it though, so we'll see how that goes.
- nntwozz 1y agoNice, requesting boron steel be added.
- metalman 1y agomore interesting if it included which steels play nice when bieng forge welded together, to which I can suggest plain carbon steel in the form of a used horse shoe, and 5160 in the form of a vdub coil spring. Used air ride springs yield large bilets of 5160, that I use for tongs and die blanks, stiff stuff coil springs from trains are another large diameter stock, and torsion bars are also sometimes large, round, AND , pre tapered if someone is dreaming of a claymore to wave around. the problem with a lot of the more exotic steels is that they are "hot short" meaning that they will litteraly just crumble and fall apart if forged at too high a heat, and at too low a heat, they are impossible to forge, so heat controll must be good, and there is no time to waste either as each heat does some hurt to the metal, so aprenticing with cheap but good spring steel is the way to go.On the flip side there are some steels that are "cold short" and cant be touched durring a dull or black heat. working with strikers is good fun, and you can move a lot of metal with 4 people, one with a 4 pound hand hammer, and three with 12 pound sledges, draw out blanks in a jiffy
- abcd_f 1y agoAny plans to add Japanese steels? https://knivescombined.com/pages/steels https://knivescombined.com/pages/steels
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y agoYep. I see VG10, which some Japanese knives use. But I wanted to compare it to SG2, which is not listed. Nor AUS10. And also the non-stainless Carbon steels.
- p-s-v 1y agoyes I plan to add these
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 1y agoWhere is the data from? How can I trust it? All of it looks LLM generated? Some of the plots and data from the comparisons seem to be missing or jumbled?
- zahlman 1y ago> All of it looks LLM generated? Yeah, it's padded out to an absurd degree in the formulaic way that it does.
- Too 1y agoIt's obviously a SEO farm filled with pure AI slop. Can't believe it made it to the front page here. "In this comprehensive guide, we compare metal A vs metal B" with 100s of similar articles for every unique permutation of metals. Yeah right someone did that comparision... "Best pocket knife", "Best filet knife", Best Chef knife", bla blabla
- xvector 1y agoWow, knife steel geek myself here (and avid reader of KnifeSteelNerds) and I have been wishing this existed for a long time. Awesome work, thank you! Would you be able to add Damacore DC18N?
- malablaster 1y agoThe graph you chose feels useless to me. It seems like you built this without a target use case, neither practical nor academic.
- p-s-v 1y agoare you interested in steels? what do you think would be better?
- malablaster 1y agoWhen I’m buying a new knife I have a temporary interest in steels. For those times I might want something that guides me through whether there’s a steel that is better for my use case than Magnacut. Last time I was into researching steels I made my own spreadsheet.
- HeartofCPU 1y agoAwesome