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People over 70 years old in the Netherlands have 2.8 times the fatality rate of drivers under 60 years old. [1] So the road design is not the cure-all that this

People over 70 years old in the Netherlands have 2.8 times the fatality rate of drivers under 60 years old. [1] So the road design is not the cure-all that this article suggests since the elderly are still causing fatalities even with the improved road design. It's disappointing that age was not cited as one of the main causes of accidents. Yes, we can and should improve the design of the roads. However, we also need to improve the driving skills of the young and elderly. [1] https://swov.nl/en/fact-sheet/older-road-users https://swov.nl/en/fact-sheet/older-road-users

goda90 1y ago
A great thing about the Netherlands is that their infrastructure makes it much easier for them to take away the licenses of older drivers who no longer can pass driving tests without leaving that person stranded at home.
fbernier 1y ago
Yes, age diminishing driving skills certainly is a huge factor but I wonder how much of this age stat is due to the different generation in which they learned to drive.
- ebiester 1y ago
  I remember driving with my grandparents at that age, and there is a reflex issue. Their reflexes slow and it becomes a lot more difficult for them.
glenstein 1y ago
I'm not sure the article takes the opposite side on this point, and I don't think it it was claiming to be a cure-all.
tobyjsullivan 1y ago
The article you link to specifically calls out that they can't and won't speculate about whether age is a factor in causing car crashes. Elderly people have higher mortality rates in virtually all cases of injury and illness so it shouldn't be surprising this is true when they are involved in a car crash.
slg 1y ago
I noticed that link shows the jump in fatality rate for older cyclists and pedestrians is bigger than the one for drivers. How much do your skills as a pedestrian really degrade as you get older? To me, this suggests that part of this increase in fatalities is due to the body weakening as we age. An average 30-year-old almost certainly has higher odds of surviving the same accident compared to a typical 75-year-old. Maybe looking at the fatality rate for 70+ year old automobile passengers versus passengers under 60 would be a good baseline to show this and allow us to better estimate the true danger of declining skill of a driver.
- os2warpman 1y ago
  The increase in fatalities is almost exclusively due to frailty.
os2warpman 1y ago
>However, we also need to improve the driving skills of the young and elderly. In the US, at least, an 80-year-old driver is safer than a 21-year-old. Additionally, the least safe group of female drivers, females aged 15-20, is only marginally more likely to be operating a motor vehicle that causes a fatal crash (25.5 per 100k licensed drivers for teenaged girls) than the safest male cohort (23.8 for males aged 65-74). The gender gap is not even close. Males aged 15-20 are 60.3, my cohort is in the mid-30s, and retiree males are in the mid-20s. Female retirees are 7.5, geriatrics 10.1. All other age groups are in the mid-teens. It doesn't matter how you massage the data. Driving for work vs. not, crashes per hours driven, crashes per number of licensed drivers by gender, crashes per 100 million miles driven, highway vs. surface street, at all times in every instance women cause fewer single vehicle, multi-vehicle, pedestrian-involved, injurious, and fatal, crashes. Crashes involving a female driver are also less likely to have passenger fatalities, due to the greater likelihood that all passengers will be wearing their seatbelts. Females are less likely (by a LOT) to drive intoxicated, less likely to drive distracted, and are less likely to speed. Actuaries working for insurance firms and rental car bean counters have known this irrefutable and unquestionable truth for at least 30 years. Whenever I suggest that males receive additional training and oversight until their crash rates fall to those of the typical 16-year-old girl, people get irate. edit: I can't find the numbers but it is fact that CDLs (commercial driver's licenses) both lower and level the statistics so training and oversight is almost certainly the answer.
- olyjohn 1y ago
  CDLs also will lose their jobs or careers if they get infractions or accidents.
- bradlys 1y ago
  These numbers don’t really account for the fact that the “official” suicide is 4x the rate of women. Men do more dangerous things but they also just kill themselves in many different ways that don’t get depicted accurately in the stats.
  - watwut 1y ago
    These are generally not suicides and suicides are not all that relevant. There is nothing inaccurate about these statistics. Statistically speaking, women drive better.
amrocha 1y ago
Ah, so close. Old people aren’t bad drivers because of “driving skills”. They’re bad drivers because driving is incredibly dangerous and they’re old. What we need to do to prevent this is eliminate driving as a lifestyle. Treat it as the dangerous act that it truly is. We don’t let 75 year olds operate heavy machinery, we shouldn’t let them operate cars either.
tim333 1y ago
>we also need to improve the driving skills of ... elderly You link doesn't say that. It says they are more likely to die in accidents because they are old and don't survive, not because they cause them by bad driving.

goda90 1y ago

A great thing about the Netherlands is that their infrastructure makes it much easier for them to take away the licenses of older drivers who no longer can pass driving tests without leaving that person stranded at home.

fbernier 1y ago

Yes, age diminishing driving skills certainly is a huge factor but I wonder how much of this age stat is due to the different generation in which they learned to drive.

ebiester 1y ago
I remember driving with my grandparents at that age, and there is a reflex issue. Their reflexes slow and it becomes a lot more difficult for them.

glenstein 1y ago

I'm not sure the article takes the opposite side on this point, and I don't think it it was claiming to be a cure-all.

tobyjsullivan 1y ago

The article you link to specifically calls out that they can't and won't speculate about whether age is a factor in causing car crashes. Elderly people have higher mortality rates in virtually all cases of injury and illness so it shouldn't be surprising this is true when they are involved in a car crash.

slg 1y ago

I noticed that link shows the jump in fatality rate for older cyclists and pedestrians is bigger than the one for drivers. How much do your skills as a pedestrian really degrade as you get older? To me, this suggests that part of this increase in fatalities is due to the body weakening as we age. An average 30-year-old almost certainly has higher odds of surviving the same accident compared to a typical 75-year-old. Maybe looking at the fatality rate for 70+ year old automobile passengers versus passengers under 60 would be a good baseline to show this and allow us to better estimate the true danger of declining skill of a driver.

os2warpman 1y ago
The increase in fatalities is almost exclusively due to frailty.

os2warpman 1y ago

>However, we also need to improve the driving skills of the young and elderly. In the US, at least, an 80-year-old driver is safer than a 21-year-old. Additionally, the least safe group of female drivers, females aged 15-20, is only marginally more likely to be operating a motor vehicle that causes a fatal crash (25.5 per 100k licensed drivers for teenaged girls) than the safest male cohort (23.8 for males aged 65-74). The gender gap is not even close. Males aged 15-20 are 60.3, my cohort is in the mid-30s, and retiree males are in the mid-20s. Female retirees are 7.5, geriatrics 10.1. All other age groups are in the mid-teens. It doesn't matter how you massage the data. Driving for work vs. not, crashes per hours driven, crashes per number of licensed drivers by gender, crashes per 100 million miles driven, highway vs. surface street, at all times in every instance women cause fewer single vehicle, multi-vehicle, pedestrian-involved, injurious, and fatal, crashes. Crashes involving a female driver are also less likely to have passenger fatalities, due to the greater likelihood that all passengers will be wearing their seatbelts. Females are less likely (by a LOT) to drive intoxicated, less likely to drive distracted, and are less likely to speed. Actuaries working for insurance firms and rental car bean counters have known this irrefutable and unquestionable truth for at least 30 years. Whenever I suggest that males receive additional training and oversight until their crash rates fall to those of the typical 16-year-old girl, people get irate. edit: I can't find the numbers but it is fact that CDLs (commercial driver's licenses) both lower and level the statistics so training and oversight is almost certainly the answer.

olyjohn 1y ago
CDLs also will lose their jobs or careers if they get infractions or accidents.
bradlys 1y ago
These numbers don’t really account for the fact that the “official” suicide is 4x the rate of women. Men do more dangerous things but they also just kill themselves in many different ways that don’t get depicted accurately in the stats.
- watwut 1y ago
  These are generally not suicides and suicides are not all that relevant. There is nothing inaccurate about these statistics. Statistically speaking, women drive better.

amrocha 1y ago

Ah, so close. Old people aren’t bad drivers because of “driving skills”. They’re bad drivers because driving is incredibly dangerous and they’re old. What we need to do to prevent this is eliminate driving as a lifestyle. Treat it as the dangerous act that it truly is. We don’t let 75 year olds operate heavy machinery, we shouldn’t let them operate cars either.

tim333 1y ago

>we also need to improve the driving skills of ... elderly You link doesn't say that. It says they are more likely to die in accidents because they are old and don't survive, not because they cause them by bad driving.