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There has actually been a friends-only feed on FB for years. Timelines -> Friends filters everything down. The problem? Nobody I care about posts anymore. The

There has actually been a friends-only feed on FB for years. Timelines -> Friends filters everything down. The problem? Nobody I care about posts anymore. The "flywheel" is broken. Social Media hasn't died - it just moved to group chats. Everything I care about gets posted there. Honestly, I would love a running Feed of my group chats. Scan my inbox, predict what's most engaging, and give me a way to respond directly.

dataflow 1y ago
> There has actually been a friends-only feed on FB for years. Timelines -> Friends filters everything down. The problem? Nobody I care about posts anymore. Is that really the only problem? How many taps/clicks do you need to get there? Can you make it the default? And how obvious is it that it actually exists?
- 1980phipsi 1y ago
  They actually made it even easier to find recently on mobile. Right there at the bottom.
  - dataflow 1y ago
    I literally have no idea what you're referring to, and I just updated the app. Could you share a link or screenshot or something?
    - pests 1y ago
      Facebook commonly runs A/B testing on their UI. It is almost weekly for me and one of my friends to ask each other “hey do you have the <x> tab at the bottom” for Meta apps. Marketplace, Dating, “All Chats” in messenger which was just the same as the slide out menu I bet people didn’t use much. I also think they change per-user depending on what they use. edit: I decided to check real quick and I do have the friends tab. Here’s a crop of it, note I edited out the last “Menu” tab for privacy. https://imgur.com/a/6pFa1XF https://imgur.com/a/6pFa1XF Tabs are: Home, Friends, Marketplace, Dating, Notifications, Menu.
      - dataflow 1y ago
        Not only was that Friends tab not there for me by default, but it also does not do the aforementioned when I customize the top(? not bottom) tab bar to I include it. What it does is to show me a list: of pending friends, and friend requests. No space to show any posts to begin with. To see my friends' posts, I have to click the hamburger, then Feeds, then Friends, then (sometimes) manually pull down to refresh, because it usually just lies to me that I've already caught up. This is designed to be actively user-hostile, as if they were forced to implement this against their will.
        pests 1y ago
        The Friends tab for me brings me to the actual friend feed you mentioned last but also includes pending requests and some other top matter.
      - 1980phipsi 1y ago
        Mine has Home, Friends, Video, Marketplace, Notifications, Menu. They adjust whether to show dating based on relationship status...
- yason 1y ago
  My facebook bookmark takes me to https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr I still see other content, even there, but it's still somehow manageable. I run out of updates very quickly though whereas I'd like to just start seeing older posts from friends that I've seen already.
  - dataflow 1y ago
    This just opens the app for me on mobile. I guess on desktop it might do something.
- voxic11 1y ago
  It takes 2 clicks and you can just bookmark it. https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr
  - alanbernstein 1y ago
    For fb app users (most) I think bookmarks are irrelevant.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - notlisted 1y ago
      Open in browser and add to homescreen. What's more, FB can't track you if you use the browser instead of the app.
      - dataflow 1y ago
        > What's more, FB can't track you if you use the browser instead of the app. For the numerous people who use Messenger or WhatsApp or other products this seems false and irrelevant.
        notlisted 1y ago
        I don't use those either, but you're correct, though I believe that in the EU, data of these cannot be mixed with FB data.
- notlisted 1y ago
  I've bookmarked the friends feed and the groups feed ( https://www.facebook.com/?filter=groups&sk=h_chr https://www.facebook.com/?filter=groups&sk=h_chr ) which saves me a LOT of aggravation.
- kridsdale3 1y ago
  I used to be TL of the Facebook News Feed. People in UX research told us constantly they wanted the feed to be about friends, and chronological. Several times we ran A/B tests with many millions of people to try exactly this. Every time all the usage metrics tanked. Not just virality and doomscroll metrics, but how many likes, messages, comments, re-shares, and app-opens. We never even measured ad-related things on that team. So people say they want this, like they say they want McDonalds to offer salads. Nobody orders salads at McDonalds.
  - rcxdude 1y ago
    >Several times we ran A/B tests with many millions of people to try exactly this. Every time all the usage metrics tanked. Not just virality and doomscroll metrics, but how many likes, messages, comments, re-shares, and app-opens. We never even measured ad-related things on that team. Well, yeah, but this has an implicit "engagement === good" assumption. Exactly the same thing that incentivizes unhealthy McDonald's food: they make more money when they sell food that still leaves you hungry. So, yeah, people probably did want this, and when they got it they started using Facebook in a healthy manner (no point opening it at every available moment to just scroll through 'new' trash), which tanked your metrics. If you're actually worrying about your users you should also consider that them using your product more might not actually be what they want or need. Ironically enough, I think the same mistake (or rather, it's more of a mistake because there's not quite such a naked financial incentive to make this worse for the affected users) has happened with the youtube analytics dashboard: multiple youtubers have said that it's actively addicting and really bad for their mental health, but any change that feeds that probably looks really good in their metrics because, hey, creators are using it more, that must mean it's good, right?
    - kridsdale3 1y ago
      Trust me, I came in there full of motivation for "do what is good for the actual humans", and most of the rank of file were the same. FB's employees are not evil or exploitative, though I won't say its unfair to describe the leadership in such terms. Many times in product design meetings I would interject with "but this hurts people!" etc. We hated that our personal careers were directly tied to increasing the junk-food factor. It didn't feel good at all. But the choice, as crafted by HR and senior directors was clear: Junk food this thing, or lose your jobs.
macleginn 1y ago
It's called Feeds in the version of the interface I see in the browser.
laweijfmvo 1y ago
I think they recently made a big deal about this even? The fact that they would “promote” something that likely reduces time spent scrolling and viewing of ads means that no one is going to use it as an alternative to doom scrolling. They know they got you hooked on the good stuff and are just pretending to not be the bad guys
arch_deluxe 1y ago
You might be interested in FreeFollow.org [full disclosure, I'm one of the engineers working on it]. It combines the economic model of web hosting (users pay to host spaces, reading is free, and writing in someone else's space is also free), the simple UI of social media (you have a profile and write posts), and the E2EE security model of 1Password (we actually implemented their published security model). It's also a non-profit so there's no pressure from owners to exploit users. It's aimed primarily at parents of young kids who are annoyed at constantly sharing via text groups, but non-parents are also surprisingly into it.
- busymom0 1y ago
  Since it's E2EE, do you have a limit on the number of members in a group/friends?
  - arch_deluxe 1y ago
    Nope.
- tmpz22 1y ago
  Independent social media run in a cost-effective way and actually helping their community is the future. I really hope non-American devs learn this because most American devs are too busy trying to get rich.
- ryan-duve 1y ago
  When I click "Join the waitlist" on Firefox I see an empty beige box on an otherwise blank page.
  - arch_deluxe 1y ago
    Thanks for letting us know. Unfortunately we haven't been able to reproduce that with the current version of Firefox, but if you'd like to email us at hello@freefollow.org we'll add you to the list manually.
    - 1y ago
the_clarence 1y ago
If that friends tab is not the default tab its not going to work. Period.
josu 1y ago
I'm looking for it on the mobile app and I can't find it.
GuB-42 1y ago
Discord too. Most of my friends are on Discord, we have group chats and private servers. Many communities use Discord as their primary online hub too. It is concerning. Discord has been slowly enshittifying for the last couple of years: ads (ex: "quests"), app bugs, etc... There is no export option and even public servers are not accessible to search engines and archives.
wwweston 1y ago
> There has actually been a friends-only feed on FB for years. Timelines -> Friends filters everything down. I remember when this was called "Lists", and I carefully gathered acquaintances into lists. When I wanted to check in with particular list, I clicked on the list. Then the lists sidebar disappeared (but you could still get the functionality if you knew the URL / argument structure). Then the functionality disappeared. I'm sure some product/UX staff did career making things on a metric somewhere. > The problem? Nobody I care about posts anymore. The "flywheel" is broken. Why post when there's no guarantee who/anyone will see it amongst a firehose of bait-y and often angry stuff? This is part of the anti-flywheel which draws towards doomscroll. > group chats Group chats have the baseline virtue of knowing who your audience is. They're missing other virtues, but that's probably another conversation.

dataflow 1y ago

> There has actually been a friends-only feed on FB for years. Timelines -> Friends filters everything down. The problem? Nobody I care about posts anymore. Is that really the only problem? How many taps/clicks do you need to get there? Can you make it the default? And how obvious is it that it actually exists?

1980phipsi 1y ago
They actually made it even easier to find recently on mobile. Right there at the bottom.
- dataflow 1y ago
  I literally have no idea what you're referring to, and I just updated the app. Could you share a link or screenshot or something?
  - pests 1y ago
    Facebook commonly runs A/B testing on their UI. It is almost weekly for me and one of my friends to ask each other “hey do you have the <x> tab at the bottom” for Meta apps. Marketplace, Dating, “All Chats” in messenger which was just the same as the slide out menu I bet people didn’t use much. I also think they change per-user depending on what they use. edit: I decided to check real quick and I do have the friends tab. Here’s a crop of it, note I edited out the last “Menu” tab for privacy. https://imgur.com/a/6pFa1XF https://imgur.com/a/6pFa1XF Tabs are: Home, Friends, Marketplace, Dating, Notifications, Menu.
    - dataflow 1y ago
      Not only was that Friends tab not there for me by default, but it also does not do the aforementioned when I customize the top(? not bottom) tab bar to I include it. What it does is to show me a list: of pending friends, and friend requests. No space to show any posts to begin with. To see my friends' posts, I have to click the hamburger, then Feeds, then Friends, then (sometimes) manually pull down to refresh, because it usually just lies to me that I've already caught up. This is designed to be actively user-hostile, as if they were forced to implement this against their will.
      - pests 1y ago
        The Friends tab for me brings me to the actual friend feed you mentioned last but also includes pending requests and some other top matter.
    - 1980phipsi 1y ago
      Mine has Home, Friends, Video, Marketplace, Notifications, Menu. They adjust whether to show dating based on relationship status...
yason 1y ago
My facebook bookmark takes me to https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr I still see other content, even there, but it's still somehow manageable. I run out of updates very quickly though whereas I'd like to just start seeing older posts from friends that I've seen already.
- dataflow 1y ago
  This just opens the app for me on mobile. I guess on desktop it might do something.
voxic11 1y ago
It takes 2 clicks and you can just bookmark it. https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr
- alanbernstein 1y ago
  For fb app users (most) I think bookmarks are irrelevant.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - notlisted 1y ago
    Open in browser and add to homescreen. What's more, FB can't track you if you use the browser instead of the app.
    - dataflow 1y ago
      > What's more, FB can't track you if you use the browser instead of the app. For the numerous people who use Messenger or WhatsApp or other products this seems false and irrelevant.
      - notlisted 1y ago
        I don't use those either, but you're correct, though I believe that in the EU, data of these cannot be mixed with FB data.
notlisted 1y ago
I've bookmarked the friends feed and the groups feed ( https://www.facebook.com/?filter=groups&sk=h_chr https://www.facebook.com/?filter=groups&sk=h_chr ) which saves me a LOT of aggravation.
kridsdale3 1y ago
I used to be TL of the Facebook News Feed. People in UX research told us constantly they wanted the feed to be about friends, and chronological. Several times we ran A/B tests with many millions of people to try exactly this. Every time all the usage metrics tanked. Not just virality and doomscroll metrics, but how many likes, messages, comments, re-shares, and app-opens. We never even measured ad-related things on that team. So people say they want this, like they say they want McDonalds to offer salads. Nobody orders salads at McDonalds.
- rcxdude 1y ago
  >Several times we ran A/B tests with many millions of people to try exactly this. Every time all the usage metrics tanked. Not just virality and doomscroll metrics, but how many likes, messages, comments, re-shares, and app-opens. We never even measured ad-related things on that team. Well, yeah, but this has an implicit "engagement === good" assumption. Exactly the same thing that incentivizes unhealthy McDonald's food: they make more money when they sell food that still leaves you hungry. So, yeah, people probably did want this, and when they got it they started using Facebook in a healthy manner (no point opening it at every available moment to just scroll through 'new' trash), which tanked your metrics. If you're actually worrying about your users you should also consider that them using your product more might not actually be what they want or need. Ironically enough, I think the same mistake (or rather, it's more of a mistake because there's not quite such a naked financial incentive to make this worse for the affected users) has happened with the youtube analytics dashboard: multiple youtubers have said that it's actively addicting and really bad for their mental health, but any change that feeds that probably looks really good in their metrics because, hey, creators are using it more, that must mean it's good, right?
  - kridsdale3 1y ago
    Trust me, I came in there full of motivation for "do what is good for the actual humans", and most of the rank of file were the same. FB's employees are not evil or exploitative, though I won't say its unfair to describe the leadership in such terms. Many times in product design meetings I would interject with "but this hurts people!" etc. We hated that our personal careers were directly tied to increasing the junk-food factor. It didn't feel good at all. But the choice, as crafted by HR and senior directors was clear: Junk food this thing, or lose your jobs.

macleginn 1y ago

It's called Feeds in the version of the interface I see in the browser.

laweijfmvo 1y ago

I think they recently made a big deal about this even? The fact that they would “promote” something that likely reduces time spent scrolling and viewing of ads means that no one is going to use it as an alternative to doom scrolling. They know they got you hooked on the good stuff and are just pretending to not be the bad guys

arch_deluxe 1y ago

You might be interested in FreeFollow.org [full disclosure, I'm one of the engineers working on it]. It combines the economic model of web hosting (users pay to host spaces, reading is free, and writing in someone else's space is also free), the simple UI of social media (you have a profile and write posts), and the E2EE security model of 1Password (we actually implemented their published security model). It's also a non-profit so there's no pressure from owners to exploit users. It's aimed primarily at parents of young kids who are annoyed at constantly sharing via text groups, but non-parents are also surprisingly into it.

busymom0 1y ago
Since it's E2EE, do you have a limit on the number of members in a group/friends?
- arch_deluxe 1y ago
  Nope.
tmpz22 1y ago
Independent social media run in a cost-effective way and actually helping their community is the future. I really hope non-American devs learn this because most American devs are too busy trying to get rich.
ryan-duve 1y ago
When I click "Join the waitlist" on Firefox I see an empty beige box on an otherwise blank page.
- arch_deluxe 1y ago
  Thanks for letting us know. Unfortunately we haven't been able to reproduce that with the current version of Firefox, but if you'd like to email us at hello@freefollow.org we'll add you to the list manually.
  - 1y ago

the_clarence 1y ago

If that friends tab is not the default tab its not going to work. Period.

josu 1y ago

I'm looking for it on the mobile app and I can't find it.

GuB-42 1y ago

Discord too. Most of my friends are on Discord, we have group chats and private servers. Many communities use Discord as their primary online hub too. It is concerning. Discord has been slowly enshittifying for the last couple of years: ads (ex: "quests"), app bugs, etc... There is no export option and even public servers are not accessible to search engines and archives.

wwweston 1y ago

> There has actually been a friends-only feed on FB for years. Timelines -> Friends filters everything down. I remember when this was called "Lists", and I carefully gathered acquaintances into lists. When I wanted to check in with particular list, I clicked on the list. Then the lists sidebar disappeared (but you could still get the functionality if you knew the URL / argument structure). Then the functionality disappeared. I'm sure some product/UX staff did career making things on a metric somewhere. > The problem? Nobody I care about posts anymore. The "flywheel" is broken. Why post when there's no guarantee who/anyone will see it amongst a firehose of bait-y and often angry stuff? This is part of the anti-flywheel which draws towards doomscroll. > group chats Group chats have the baseline virtue of knowing who your audience is. They're missing other virtues, but that's probably another conversation.