5 ms·

Apple should flick Godot a chunk of change to properly get this rolling.

theshrike79 1y ago
What Apple should do is drive a truckload of money on Valve's doorstep and get a Proton-like system built for M-series Macs.
- tim-- 1y ago
  They have done that. They gave some cash money to CodeWeavers, the company that created wine. It's called the Game Porting Toolkit: https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/ https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
  - mattlondon 1y ago
    That's the problem I think: porting. As I understand things, proton allows windows games to just work (pun intended) on Linux. No porting, no rebuild - just download and run. Who is going to bother doing all the extra work to port their game for Mac?! Time and time again there have been loads of articles on here over the years with developers saying it is simply not worth the hassle to support Linux and Mac.
    - Hamuko 1y ago
      >Who is going to bother doing all the extra work to port their game for Mac?! So far at least Ubisoft, CAPCOM, Remedy, Kojima Productions and Hello Games.
      - andsoitis 1y ago
        And for additional context, when it comes to Vision Pro, Ubisoft has one game that is designed with it in mind (Rabbids: Legends of the Multiverse) and CAPCOM has none. That should tell us something about the appetite to support visionOS.
        pjmlp 1y ago
        Most companies don't support visionOS because it is a 3000 euros/dollar device, that really has to sell a lot of games. Additionally many developers are not porting their games to visionOS as protest to existing store percentages, nothing to do with Metal support.
        threeseed 1y ago
        Exactly the same thing happened with iPhone, iPad, Apple TV and Apple Watch. It's Vision Pro 1. Maybe let's see how the next revision goes first.
    - Topfi 1y ago
      The downside of relying on translation layers rather than porting from the perspective of Apple is likely that they vey much detest the lack of control that would result from that. Game devs targeting Linux have started viewing Proton/Windows runtime as a target, which has lead to native Linux ports becoming less common. As a person wanting to play the odd game on Linux, this has been a godsend, but for Apple, this would be viewed as an existential threat. Personally, I'd wish for more extensive Vulkan support, but I have been informed that this is likely not as easily done considering Apples GPUs with TBDR differ somewhat from the industry standard. At the end though, if Apple truly wanted, they could simply spent money on studios and incentives ports. None-Mobile-Gaming remains no priority for them, simple as that. I haven't seen any indication that the AVP has changed that in any way and I wouldn't be surprised if they view GoDot not as a game engine, but rather another way to create experiences.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      The same folks that bother for iOS and iPad games, Nintendo Switch and PlayStation. Most studios aren't religious about APIs like FOSS developers, they create API agnostic engines with plugabble backends and move on with what is relevant for their game IP. It has been like this since the dawn of computer games being fully written in Assembly across 8 bit snowflakes.
    - tim-- 1y ago
      Despite the name, the GPTK isn't just a porting toolkit. It contains a version of Wine that is specifically patched to pass DirectX calls to Metal. There is a relatively easy way for a player to use GPTK to run games from their Steam library on Mac. Here is how to use Apple's Game Porting Toolkit to install Wine & Steam. 1. Go to https://github.com/installaware/AGPT https://github.com/installaware/AGPT and download & run the installer 2. Go to https://store.steampowered.com/about/ https://store.steampowered.com/about/ and download the installer 3. Open a Terminal, run mkdir Games && gameportingtoolkit ~/Games Downloads/SteamSetup.exe 4. Follow the instructions at https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Game_Porting_Toolkit#Shortcut https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Game_Porting_Toolkit#Sh...
      - tim-- 1y ago
        (There's also Mythic, which I forgot the name of https://getmythic.app/ https://getmythic.app/)
  - coldpie 1y ago
    As far as I know, CodeWeavers was not involved in that project: > We did not work with Apple on this tool https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/mjohnson/2023/6/6/wine-comes-to-macos-apple-s-game-porting-toolkit-powered-by-crossover-source-code https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/mjohnson/2023/6/6/wine-come...
  - lynndotpy 1y ago
    They have not done that, though. With Proton, almost every Windows game on Steam "Just Works" (and many others do with a small amount of configuration.) As far as I can tell, there is no way for a player to use GPT to run games from their Steam library on Mac.
  - theshrike79 1y ago
    Proton is so good that devs have dropped Linux builds for their games because Proton runs the Windows version faster - emulated.
klabb3 1y ago
Yeah I don’t get it either. A drive-by PR without even offering hardware for testing? The entitlement around OSS these days… One of the richest companies in the world, and then ”but open source should benefit everyone, it’s discrimination if you single out trillion dollar corporations”. Dude..

What Apple should do is drive a truckload of money on Valve's doorstep and get a Proton-like system built for M-series Macs.

tim-- 1y ago
They have done that. They gave some cash money to CodeWeavers, the company that created wine. It's called the Game Porting Toolkit: https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/ https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
- mattlondon 1y ago
  That's the problem I think: porting. As I understand things, proton allows windows games to just work (pun intended) on Linux. No porting, no rebuild - just download and run. Who is going to bother doing all the extra work to port their game for Mac?! Time and time again there have been loads of articles on here over the years with developers saying it is simply not worth the hassle to support Linux and Mac.
  - Hamuko 1y ago
    >Who is going to bother doing all the extra work to port their game for Mac?! So far at least Ubisoft, CAPCOM, Remedy, Kojima Productions and Hello Games.
    - andsoitis 1y ago
      And for additional context, when it comes to Vision Pro, Ubisoft has one game that is designed with it in mind (Rabbids: Legends of the Multiverse) and CAPCOM has none. That should tell us something about the appetite to support visionOS.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        Most companies don't support visionOS because it is a 3000 euros/dollar device, that really has to sell a lot of games. Additionally many developers are not porting their games to visionOS as protest to existing store percentages, nothing to do with Metal support.
      - threeseed 1y ago
        Exactly the same thing happened with iPhone, iPad, Apple TV and Apple Watch. It's Vision Pro 1. Maybe let's see how the next revision goes first.
  - Topfi 1y ago
    The downside of relying on translation layers rather than porting from the perspective of Apple is likely that they vey much detest the lack of control that would result from that. Game devs targeting Linux have started viewing Proton/Windows runtime as a target, which has lead to native Linux ports becoming less common. As a person wanting to play the odd game on Linux, this has been a godsend, but for Apple, this would be viewed as an existential threat. Personally, I'd wish for more extensive Vulkan support, but I have been informed that this is likely not as easily done considering Apples GPUs with TBDR differ somewhat from the industry standard. At the end though, if Apple truly wanted, they could simply spent money on studios and incentives ports. None-Mobile-Gaming remains no priority for them, simple as that. I haven't seen any indication that the AVP has changed that in any way and I wouldn't be surprised if they view GoDot not as a game engine, but rather another way to create experiences.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    The same folks that bother for iOS and iPad games, Nintendo Switch and PlayStation. Most studios aren't religious about APIs like FOSS developers, they create API agnostic engines with plugabble backends and move on with what is relevant for their game IP. It has been like this since the dawn of computer games being fully written in Assembly across 8 bit snowflakes.
  - tim-- 1y ago
    Despite the name, the GPTK isn't just a porting toolkit. It contains a version of Wine that is specifically patched to pass DirectX calls to Metal. There is a relatively easy way for a player to use GPTK to run games from their Steam library on Mac. Here is how to use Apple's Game Porting Toolkit to install Wine & Steam. 1. Go to https://github.com/installaware/AGPT https://github.com/installaware/AGPT and download & run the installer 2. Go to https://store.steampowered.com/about/ https://store.steampowered.com/about/ and download the installer 3. Open a Terminal, run mkdir Games && gameportingtoolkit ~/Games Downloads/SteamSetup.exe 4. Follow the instructions at https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Game_Porting_Toolkit#Shortcut https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Game_Porting_Toolkit#Sh...
    - tim-- 1y ago
      (There's also Mythic, which I forgot the name of https://getmythic.app/ https://getmythic.app/)
- coldpie 1y ago
  As far as I know, CodeWeavers was not involved in that project: > We did not work with Apple on this tool https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/mjohnson/2023/6/6/wine-comes-to-macos-apple-s-game-porting-toolkit-powered-by-crossover-source-code https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/mjohnson/2023/6/6/wine-come...
- lynndotpy 1y ago
  They have not done that, though. With Proton, almost every Windows game on Steam "Just Works" (and many others do with a small amount of configuration.) As far as I can tell, there is no way for a player to use GPT to run games from their Steam library on Mac.
- theshrike79 1y ago
  Proton is so good that devs have dropped Linux builds for their games because Proton runs the Windows version faster - emulated.

klabb3 1y ago

Yeah I don’t get it either. A drive-by PR without even offering hardware for testing? The entitlement around OSS these days… One of the richest companies in the world, and then ”but open source should benefit everyone, it’s discrimination if you single out trillion dollar corporations”. Dude..