11 ms·
The Mensa Reading List for Grades 9-12
- threatofrain 1y agoOn here I recognize Richard Wright. Amazing author.
- treetalker 1y agoLink to the actual reading list: https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/excellence-in-reading-9-12-list/ https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/e...
- globnomulous 1y agoI can't imagine caring what Mensa thinks anybody should read, let alone thinking that anybody should care what I think about what Mensa thinks anybody should read. And between the interminable list of several-sentence-long book reports (...why?), the writing is just one bland, melodramatic, Very Emphatic "not X but Y" after another.
- MrMcCall 1y agoMensa makes me think of two things: Groucho's quote "I'd never be a member of any club that would have me as a member." And one of our favorite Columbo episodes (all free on Tubi) that features a murder in a very Mensa-style club, titled "The Bye-Bye Sky High I.Q. Murder Case".
- JKCalhoun 1y agoYeah, the antagonists in Columbo are always "elitists" ... at least by the standards of the time of the shows.
- newer_vienna_1 1y agoReminds me of the "Great Books" program that Liberal Arts colleges like St. Johns have adopted. https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/undergraduate/great-books-reading-list https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/undergraduate/great-bo.... Also reminds me of philosopher John Senior's "Thousand Good Books" as a counter to the "Great books" -- heuristic that if you've heard of the book and it's old enough, then it's probably worth reading and studying. https://thelifetimereader.substack.com/p/the-thousand-good-books https://thelifetimereader.substack.com/p/the-thousand-good-b...
- drcwpl 1y agoFabulous, I did not know about those resources, thank you. Will review carefully.
- sn9 1y agoSt John's also has an Eastern Classics master's program reading list for works from India, China, and Japan: https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/graduate/masters-eastern-classics/reading-lists https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/graduate/masters-easte... Other good sources include the list of books in the back of Mortimer Adler's How To Read A Book for a Western Canon and Wm. Theodore de Bary's The Great Civilized Conversation: Education for a World Community and Finding Wisdom In The East Asian Classics for East Asian Canons.
- glacier5674 1y agoNight is important, but I really don't recommend it for emotionally volatile teenagers. I was already mildly depressed when I was assigned it, and borderline suicidal after I finished it. Maybe read it in college when you have easier access to alcohol.
- drcwpl 1y agoI should add that point as a comment on the essay, thank YOU - I will link to it
- kragen 1y agoNight shocked me in a way I didn't know I could still be shocked. I think it has given me a very helpful perspective in the following 35 years.
- Der_Einzige 1y agoThere’s controversy about this book - claims that some or all of it was fabricated. Terrible book to teach the holocaust with since a lot of gen Z or alpha either doesn’t think the holocaust happened or thinks it should have been worse. Giving them a book of fabrications plays into this narrative. “ Franklin argues that the power of the narrative was achieved at the cost of literal truth, and that to insist that the work is purely factual is to ignore its literary sophistication” “ Wiesel wrote in 1967 about a visit to a rebbe (a Hasidic rabbi) who he had not seen for 20 years. The rebbe is upset to learn that Wiesel has become a writer, and wants to know what he writes. "Stories," Wiesel tells him, " ... true stories": About people you knew? "Yes, about people I might have known." About things that happened? "Yes, about things that happened or could have happened." But they did not? "No, not all of them did. In fact, some were invented from almost the beginning to almost the end." The Rebbe leaned forward as if to measure me up and said with more sorrow than anger: That means you are writing lies! I did not answer immediately. The scolded child within me had nothing to say in his defense. Yet, I had to justify myself: "Things are not that simple, Rebbe. Some events do take place but are not true; others are—although they never occurred."[68]“ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_(memoir) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_(memoir) It was the same year that I read this crap book that they forced me to read Lolita by Nabokov. I realized that year that “classic literature” was decadent and degenerate - and often so were my teachers!
- graemep 1y agoI hate reading lists like this, it is so prescriptive it will take the pleasure away. Even worse asking for an adult sign off and making it part of an "excellence program". Read what you like, not what is on a list. There is room to guide and suggest, but fixed lists to tick off are absolutely horrible.
- qoez 1y agoI agree. Though a lot of those books are great and something a person would probably want to have on their reading list.
- drcwpl 1y agoExactly the point I made in the essay.
- graemep 1y agoYou are more positive than me about it. You do have some different definitions attitudes to mine which may account for part of it. For example: > It took me a while to realize the point of the whole exercise of the Mensa list. It’s not to become well-read. That’s a side effect. The point is to lose your smugness. To get knocked off balance by something older, stranger, smarter than you. To stop assuming you know it all. I would say those are not two different things. If you have not been affected by things that are "older, stranger, smarter than you" you are not well read!
- drcwpl 1y agoThat is true... I certainly did not have that awareness when I was that age. I had a period locked in my room between 17 and 19 reading anything I could Bram Stoker, Dickens, 1st World war history and so on... but did for the joy and was not fully aware of the impact until much later.
- graemep 1y agoI would say most people would find the same about what they have read when young, and maybe even later. The impact is often pretty subtle and pervasive and you may never know.
- garciasn 1y agoI read, on average, 100 books a year. Anna Karenina was on my list for a long time and I read it back in 2023. With 100 books a year, I’m averaging two books a week. It took me three full months to make it through that slog; hoping to find one fucking redeeming factor for it. Let me tell you: there is absolutely no reason anyone should read that novel unless the intention is to make one hate reading. Can we please stop making kids read books that fucking suck while telling them it’s somehow good for them to do so? We wonder why reading is seen as a slog and few do it; instead focusing on their phones or Netflix watchlist.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- wizzwizz4 1y agoThe first paragraph of the Wikipedia article tells you all you need to know about Anna Karenina. > By the time he was finishing up the last installments, Tolstoy was in an anguished state of mind and, having come to hate [the book], finished it unwillingly.
- drcwpl 1y agoExcellent catch, although I loved that book!
- dogsdorun 1y agoWhy do you assume your experience is the same an everyone’s? Is yours the only opinion in the world? I would expect someone who reads a thousand books a decade to have a more nuanced opinion. Instead you spew self righteous arrogance.
- stratocumulus0 1y agoSo the natural question that follows is what are your favourite authors and genres?
- garciasn 1y ago
- qoez 1y agoInteresting how image generation still hasn't passed the 'visual turning test'. It's still obvious 4o generated the header image here.
- kragen 1y agoThough the blog post is more thoughtful and reflective, here's the actual reading list (PDF warning): https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/excellence-in-reading-9-12-list/ https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/e... Appallingly, it's alphabetized by title.
- dfc 1y agoAppallingly? I am not sure how else it would be ordered? A random order would be rough. The kids would have to scan through the list in order to find the book they read to rate and date the entry.
- staindk 1y agoAuthor's last name I think.
- kragen 1y agoAlmost any other order would be better, though I agree that a truly random order would be slightly worse. These are mostly fiction, so in the library they are shelved by the author's surname. (If this idea didn't occur to you, presumably you have never been in a library, which makes me wonder why you are commenting at all.) You could also group them by century, by original language, by country of origin, by mood, by difficulty, by length, or by primary themes. Any of those would be superior in suggesting to you what books you might want to read next on the basis of books you had already read. While we're at it, just listing that information for each title would also be very valuable, even without reordering the list.
- Balgair 1y agoI mean, if you're up to reading Brave New World, I'd think that scanning through a list to rate and date isn't that difficult. Aside: The rating and date for reading is just strange for this level of reader, also the having an adult sign off on it. It just seems so juvenile for anyone that is really reading Don Quixote, Lord of the Flies, or many of the other books in the list. Something like a 4th grader would need to do, not a 17 year old. I get that it's mostly following the formula from the earlier grade levels, but still, it should be revised.
- kjellsbells 1y agoOne might ask, what exactly is the point of a reading list? As a recommendation set between friends ("you must read Borges and Sebald! You'll love them"), fine. But lists give the vibe of someone desperately trying to preserve The Culture, whatever that is. And of course once such a list becomes encoded in the school board or university course curriculum, it instantly becomes calcified and a chore, even if some of the entries on the list are appealing to some of the readers. Pity the teacher who has to teach /Catcher in the Rye/ for the tenth year, and pity their students. So the real challenge is how to communicate The Culture through reading, without killing the joy. I wish I knew the answer. Perhaps it boils down to teachers being allowed to innovate. Maybe we need more teachers with big theater kid energy. I dont know. Id be interested to know what happens in non-Western cultures too...is this problem universal?
- StefanBatory 1y agoLooking at the list, I wish that they included more non-Anglosphere authors. Skimming at it, it does seem a tad Anglo-centric with that.
- glacier5674 1y agoAnd then there's Beowulf, which is Anglo without the Sphere.
- bashmelek 1y agoThe cultural canon in the USA will lean towards that. I will say that, if we are to suggest more global reading, concrete examples are always welcome! I would of course recommend Journey to the West. Even among the Four Great Classical Novels it has huge lasting influence
- sn9 1y agoThis is not exactly surprising for a list of books in English.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mholm 1y agoI was surprised to see how many of these were already assigned high school reading at my public high school. We went through maybe a quarter of the list? I do disagree with making it a checklist. Some of these books will end up being an absolute slog with no value to their reader, and kill progress in the list. Great Expectations was like that for me, and later Pride and Prejudice.
- paulsutter 1y agoFar better to be creating things during grades 9-12 than reading these tired old books. I learn so many more things so much faster today because of the new AI tools. The big divide among students in the future will be between those who use AI to learn faster and accomplish more, vs those who use AI to avoid working or thinking
- fuzzfactor 1y ago>I learn so many more things so much faster today because of the new AI tools. Which could allow more time for recreational reading . . . Doing both has got to be better than only one. >those who use AI to learn faster and accomplish more, vs those who use AI to avoid working or thinking Could be already underway :\ btw not my downvote, corrective upvote actually
- Beijinger 1y agoOT: can anybody recommend a book for a gifted kid (mathematics)? He knows prime numbers, square roots, exponents and can read. Isn't even in school yet (5 years old).
- analog31 1y agoI don't think I was gifted per se, but a curious kid. My mom was a fan of Asimov, who had written books on a huge array of topics, and there may be a few math titles in there. But at the same time, introducing a kid with math talent to science isn't such a bad thing either.
- Beijinger 1y agoI was thinking more of a real math book.
- fuzzfactor 1y agoI was like that as a child, but after enough years of wider academic exposure as a student, decided I liked applying mathematical ability towards electronics, business, and chemicals better than average compared to becoming a real mathematician. Science-fiction can be stimulating in that regard, someone who likes science in addition to math might be the one to turn some of it into science-reality someday :) Eventually I came to the conclusion that the better math textbooks had more than just math. One of the most enlightening math books I had was a late 19th century antique text "Progressive Higher Arithmetic" which was never in one of my courses, but was given to me when I was an old teenager and it could be an interesting reference in any century. Not only the differences in the way teaching has been done in the past, but a nice leather-bound volume with numerous blank pages among those adjacent to the front & back covers, covered with poetry written by the original owner. With a pen and common inkwell, in beautiful handwriting there is one that I can not forget: Remember me when death shall close My eyelids in the last repose And evening breezes gently wave The grass above your school-mates grave.
- FiatLuxDave 1y agoHonestly, I think you might be missing something here. "Azimov on Numbers" was maybe the most real math book I read as a kid. I don't know of any other book aimed at a kid's reading level that covers aleph-null and Cantor sets.
- mrbluecoat 1y agoAll reading lists will have books you don't care for (Moby-Dick) and books you think should have been included (Flowers for Algernon). Just peruse the ones that look interesting to you, then move on to the next list.
- PaulRobinson 1y agoWhat a mediocre list of material. They all pretty much sit within a European/American spectrum of "worthy" works - there is a dominance of caucasian male thinking embodied within this list: it's not very broad, even with the odd hat tip to a Bronte sister and Maya Angelou. Nothing from 80% of the World's population, all rooted in a classical Western school of writing theory. Dull. I also have a concern that they aren't a great foundation for a young person approaching adulthood trying to understand their place in the World and their own beliefs and values about themselves and the World they live in. As you would expect of adult literature, some of them have sex and sexuality as themes that are explored by protagonists, subplots and subtexts. While this is something we should expect literature to play a part in, and it is of course healthy for adults to consider their own feelings relating to sex and sexuality based on their own contexts and needs through art forms like literature, I'm not sure throwing that at a 9th grader feels quite right. Maybe it is. I think it depends on the child. The worst crime here though, is that this list is composed of books that are only considered good by the "educated" literarti. There aren't many page turners that will keep a younger mind engaged and excited. There's only a few that stand out as an opportunity to let a curious reader explore their changing selves through the context of an interesting imagined World - the only real point of literature - in a way that will stimulate and excite their curiosity for the World they are actually growing up in. And y'know, I'm a huge Shakespeare fan (I live in London, regular attendee of Shakespeare productions from all the usual companies), but this is leaning into some weird material. All 154 sonnets? Much Ado, Hamlet & King Lear, but no Romeo & Juliet or Macbeth? Huh. Also, I see you, Ayn Rand fans. I see you. No. The Fountainhead is not a good book, she isn't a good writer, and the philosophy she espoused is not justification for you behaving the way you do. Don't try and get grades 9-12 into your little weird cult, you unsympathetic self-absorbed weirdos.
- drcwpl 1y agoGreat point on the European/American spectrum.
- throwawaylsp 1y agoAlso, is there a single book on here written in the past 60 years?
- markus_zhang 1y agoMaybe just purchase a large quantity of books, or better, give free access to a library and let them pick anything they wish to read. I'm picking up some SF and fantasy in my 40s but I feel the fire is gone somehow. There are few books that I'm willing to burn candles. It would be a lot more fun to read them when I was young.
- drcwpl 1y agoAnything by Lem and some early Wells still provide great joy at the age of 61!
- markus_zhang 1y agoThanks for the recommendations, I'll definitely take a look. Ah, wish I could claw back that feeling when I burnt candles to read the Dragonlance chronicles when 20.
- wredcoll 1y agoHave you tried the murderbot diaries? Popular among most people and especially people here.
- markus_zhang 1y agoThanks, I just put up a hold request in my local library.
- spacecadet 1y agoAll great books but missing some important items: - Candide - A Peoples History... - Manufacturing Consent - Dharma Bums - Naked Lunch/Western Lands - Infinite Jest - Something Thompson, Campaign Trail '72 maybe.
- Der_Einzige 1y agoInfinite jest is a bad book. No, I will not read your fking calculus page alongside the other 1000+ pages of nonsense. The idea of assigning it even to mensa kids is exactly why Mensa has such a poor reputation. Mensa famously has the reputation of its members being extremely autistic. Books like this all but guarantee it if they are read by young, impressionable minds. Ulysses is only good because Joyce was a coomer. Candide is actually good and more people need to read it. The others you listed are post modern neo Marxism or drug abusers which will teach your kids to hate your teacher and the whole idea of education. Why not just throw on “pedagogy of the oppressed” to put the final nail into the coffin of your kid giving a fk about what your teacher teaches (“sorry, I’m not doing your homework you colonizer shitlord, I refuse to participate in the banking model of education”.
- throwawaylsp 1y agoYou say "post modern neo marxist drug abuser" like it's a bad thing...
- spacecadet 1y agoClearly hasn't lived it.
- BillyTheMage 1y agoPedagogy of the Oppressed would unironically be a better suggestion than half the books on the list.
- spacecadet 1y agoI wasn't trying to be exhaustive, but good suggestion!
- NotGMan 1y agoMost of these books require the person to be 30+ years old to make them appealing. Forcing kids to read stuff only makes them hate reading.
- BeaverGoose 1y agoGood luck with James Joyce kids.
- fmxsh 1y agoWhile the reading list as a thing in itself seem to be criticized, I agree with the point of developing stamina and to become more capable of critical thinking. If the story element comes easier to some people, its a great approach. The point being to push the reader outside simplistic but comfortable thinking and build qualities able to confront the evident but often subtle complexities.
- black_13 1y ago[dead]
- kens 1y agoThe article made this reading list seem like a good thing, but I looked at the reading list itself and it has a weird vibe. It is literally a checklist: "Check off the books as you read them." You're also supposed to rate each book from 1 to 5 stars, which is a weird way to engage with the books. At the end, you have to make a tax-form-like attestation that you have read "a complete and unabridged version of all the books and that this record is true", co-signed by an adult. As for the list, it's basically a "Great works of Western literature" list that you'd expect to see in the 1970s. The concept seems to be that you must slog through the official important books (including The Fountainhead!) to prove your Mensan superiority, rather than encouraging a joy of reading. The list: https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/excellence-in-reading-9-12-list/ https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/e...
- wredcoll 1y agoAt what point can you just read about a book instead of reading the actual book? The Fountainhead seems like a good place to start...
- __rito__ 1y agoHere is the full list [pdf]: https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/excellence-in-reading-9-12-list https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/e...
- jkmcf 1y agoI would have expected a Mensa reading list for Americans to be in non-English languages. Maybe Homer in the original Greek.
- MilnerRoute 1y agoI think it'd be healthier to recommend teenagers read science fiction. It actually gets them to enjoy reading -- while thinking about society (and technology), and stoking their ambition.
- giardini 1y agoI was a member of Mensa briefly but found it boring and so let my membership lapse. My early reading history, in order: - a few childhood stories read by my father, - textbooks from school, - comic books! I didn't have money to buy them but found that if I went into the store while the staff were busy (before and after school) serving customers, no one noticed that I was blasting thru the latest Superman. I paid attention in class, made good grades but didn't study much, nor did I read books unless absolutely forced to. I probably read fewer than 4 books before college. I was conscripted by my father to assist him in carpentry and auto repair (which taught me a great deal about how the world works). I credit DC Comics for giving me a high reading speed, the ability to concentrate (possibly I should say "to attend"!8-)) and consequently, any "high IQ" that allowed me to score well on tests, win awards, make good grades and join Mensa years later. I also credit being my father's apprentice. tl;dr Reading books on a list, even a Mensa list, will not likely make you smart.