7 ms·

Troubleshooting sleep is an exercise wrapped in pain. Figuring out which program prevents sleeping is the easy part - there are tools that show that, and you c

by ncann 1y ago

Troubleshooting sleep is an exercise wrapped in pain. Figuring out which program prevents sleeping is the easy part - there are tools that show that, and you can also usually just brute force it by killing programs one by one. Then comes figuring out why a system claims to be sleeping but isn't (e.g. the fan is still spinning). Usually this is because of the Modern Standby/S0 crap and in many cases there isn't a solution because the BIOS removed support for S3. The other class of issue is after sleeping the system won't wake up, or wake up randomly, or wake up with random glitchy graphics/sounds/etc. Sleep is easily Windows's most bug-ridden area.

Dennip 1y ago
My PC if put to sleep will completely randomly just wake up in the middle of the night. Its infuriatingly annoying to figure out why/which app is causing it as its not easily reproducible
- vo2maxer 1y ago
  Here’s a surprisingly thorough and reasonable checklist—considering the source: https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/stop-your-computer-from-randomly-waking-up-from-sleep-mode https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/stop-your-computer-from-randoml...
vo2maxer 1y ago
I’ve never had an issue finding the source. I usually run powercfg /lastwake in an admin terminal, then follow up with Event Viewer. Most recently, it was HP Print Scan Doctor waking the computer during the night.
ryandrake 1y ago
> The other class of issue is after sleeping the system won't wake up The last company where we used Windows, we'd all walk around from conference room to conference room carrying our laptops opened up, because nobody was sure they would work again without a hard reboot if you closed the lid.
- vikingerik 1y ago
  Did anyone try the setting for "when laptop lid closes" set to "do nothing"? I've always used that on a half dozen Windows laptops over the years and never seen it not work. Even if sleep is finicky, that will just make it stay fully running. If you want it to sleep, do that separately from the start menu or whatever, don't tie the sleep state to the lid state.
  - fuzzfactor 1y ago
    I always set it just the opposite, close the lid and it shuts down completely. Untying the sleep state to the lid can still be the advantage even if the full power state takes it place.
    - Daneel_ 1y ago
      I’ve been taught through years of people closing the lid of my laptop that “do nothing” is the right setting to use.
      - fuzzfactor 1y ago
        I've done that too, just don't put it back in the briefcase without checking if it's still running first :)
jchw 1y ago
As a long-time Linux user, it's also a pretty damn buggy area of Linux, although I have been much more fortunate with getting hardware that works decently enough with sleep on Linux over the years than some people have. The main benefit of Linux, though, even though it's pretty clear it doesn't have the best support for suspend/resume, is that it won't yield the resume function against you to force you to run Windows Update and yeet all of the stuff you've been working on overnight or light your bag on fire. You'll still have to get hardware that works well, but that's it. And.. and hope the AMD driver doesn't break suspend again. I actually do like running Linux, even if it might be hard to tell sometimes :)
- nine_k 1y ago
  As a long-time laptop Linux user, I'd say that "suspend to RAM" is adequate lately, and booting from scratch is paradoxically often faster than restoring from sleep, even on an NVMe.
  - fuzzfactor 1y ago
    Since Windows 8 as well, you're pretty much doing something wrong if it takes more than a few seconds to cold boot whenever you actually are going to use the PC. Nothing saves more energy than turning it all the way off, this used to be a no-brainer. Sure makes laptop batteries last years longer. Plus the failure to perfect partially-powered states over the decades doesn't have to have an impact.
- The_SamminAter 1y ago
  I believe the AMD sleep issue was just fixed, and is available in 6.14: https://nyanpasu64.gitlab.io/blog/amdgpu-sleep-wake-hang/ https://nyanpasu64.gitlab.io/blog/amdgpu-sleep-wake-hang/
izacus 1y ago
sigh Yeah, I'm just battling with the fact that Win11 just won't sleep anymore after I updated the wifi card to a new one. It *claims* to sleep in sleep study, but the power indicator doesn't go out, the disk activity doesn't stop and the battery trains in couple of hours. It's infuriating.
- fuzzfactor 1y ago
  Try booting in admin safe mode, looking in Device Manager, Show Hidden Devices, and manually uninstall the phantom old wifi device that's not really there any more. No guarantees but that's what I would do before expecting great progress otherwise. The theory is that Windows is lying awake at night wondering if their old familiar accomplice is going to ever be seen again or not ;)
AndrewDavis 1y ago
> Usually this is because of the Modern Standby/S0 crap and in many cases there isn't a solution because the BIOS removed support for S3. Also, modern windows won't let you select S3 sleep if it detects support for S0. There used to be a simple registry edits you could do but Microsoft seem to have closed that loophole. I chose my current laptop because in the BIOS it has a sleep setting, and if you pick the oddly named "Linux sleep" it disables S0 sleep. Thereby allowing S3 sleep in Windows. This is after having a previous laptop act like a heater to my lunch in my bag, or being dead despite being full charged after waking up overnight and running hard till the battery ran out. Or perhaps the most obnoxious, my wife closing her laptop with a video running and at 3am her laptop bringing itself to life waking us up.
- Aardwolf 1y ago
  > There used to be a simple registry edits you could do but Microsoft seem to have closed that loophole. Why? I mean, what incentive does MS have to say "people are still trying to use the non-buggy sleep that doesn't cause fires, let's close the loophole to force using the buggy sleep"?
  - ncann 1y ago
    The non-buggy sleep (S3) isn't even supported in the BIOS in many new laptops now (in the Dell I'm using for example). So MS probably decided to kill that option off for everyone. To be honest it's a very confusing situation since there are so many hardware configurations under Windows and if you search online I think some people are still able to disable S0 on their new laptop/latest Windows, but some (myself) definitely cannot.
    - kasabali 1y ago
      > So MS probably decided to kill that option off for everyone. not so, because of.
  - layer8 1y ago
    Probably because "Switching between S3 and Modern Standby cannot be done by changing a setting in the BIOS. Switching the power model is not supported in Windows without a complete OS re-install." Quote from, and more info about Modern Standby, here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de... S3 is considered “legacy”: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby-vs-s3 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de... The main motivation for Modern Standby was to enable instant wakeup and push notification-like functionality during standby, like smartphones. That’s not possible with the traditional sleep modes. Unfortunately it doesn’t work as seamlessly as one would like.
NL807 1y ago
>because the BIOS removed support for S3. i hate this so much

by ncann 1y ago

Dennip 1y ago

My PC if put to sleep will completely randomly just wake up in the middle of the night. Its infuriatingly annoying to figure out why/which app is causing it as its not easily reproducible

vo2maxer 1y ago
Here’s a surprisingly thorough and reasonable checklist—considering the source: https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/stop-your-computer-from-randomly-waking-up-from-sleep-mode https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/stop-your-computer-from-randoml...

vo2maxer 1y ago

I’ve never had an issue finding the source. I usually run powercfg /lastwake in an admin terminal, then follow up with Event Viewer. Most recently, it was HP Print Scan Doctor waking the computer during the night.

ryandrake 1y ago

> The other class of issue is after sleeping the system won't wake up The last company where we used Windows, we'd all walk around from conference room to conference room carrying our laptops opened up, because nobody was sure they would work again without a hard reboot if you closed the lid.

vikingerik 1y ago
Did anyone try the setting for "when laptop lid closes" set to "do nothing"? I've always used that on a half dozen Windows laptops over the years and never seen it not work. Even if sleep is finicky, that will just make it stay fully running. If you want it to sleep, do that separately from the start menu or whatever, don't tie the sleep state to the lid state.
- fuzzfactor 1y ago
  I always set it just the opposite, close the lid and it shuts down completely. Untying the sleep state to the lid can still be the advantage even if the full power state takes it place.
  - Daneel_ 1y ago
    I’ve been taught through years of people closing the lid of my laptop that “do nothing” is the right setting to use.
    - fuzzfactor 1y ago
      I've done that too, just don't put it back in the briefcase without checking if it's still running first :)

jchw 1y ago

As a long-time Linux user, it's also a pretty damn buggy area of Linux, although I have been much more fortunate with getting hardware that works decently enough with sleep on Linux over the years than some people have. The main benefit of Linux, though, even though it's pretty clear it doesn't have the best support for suspend/resume, is that it won't yield the resume function against you to force you to run Windows Update and yeet all of the stuff you've been working on overnight or light your bag on fire. You'll still have to get hardware that works well, but that's it. And.. and hope the AMD driver doesn't break suspend again. I actually do like running Linux, even if it might be hard to tell sometimes :)

nine_k 1y ago
As a long-time laptop Linux user, I'd say that "suspend to RAM" is adequate lately, and booting from scratch is paradoxically often faster than restoring from sleep, even on an NVMe.
- fuzzfactor 1y ago
  Since Windows 8 as well, you're pretty much doing something wrong if it takes more than a few seconds to cold boot whenever you actually are going to use the PC. Nothing saves more energy than turning it all the way off, this used to be a no-brainer. Sure makes laptop batteries last years longer. Plus the failure to perfect partially-powered states over the decades doesn't have to have an impact.
The_SamminAter 1y ago
I believe the AMD sleep issue was just fixed, and is available in 6.14: https://nyanpasu64.gitlab.io/blog/amdgpu-sleep-wake-hang/ https://nyanpasu64.gitlab.io/blog/amdgpu-sleep-wake-hang/

izacus 1y ago

sigh Yeah, I'm just battling with the fact that Win11 just won't sleep anymore after I updated the wifi card to a new one. It *claims* to sleep in sleep study, but the power indicator doesn't go out, the disk activity doesn't stop and the battery trains in couple of hours. It's infuriating.

fuzzfactor 1y ago
Try booting in admin safe mode, looking in Device Manager, Show Hidden Devices, and manually uninstall the phantom old wifi device that's not really there any more. No guarantees but that's what I would do before expecting great progress otherwise. The theory is that Windows is lying awake at night wondering if their old familiar accomplice is going to ever be seen again or not ;)

AndrewDavis 1y ago

> Usually this is because of the Modern Standby/S0 crap and in many cases there isn't a solution because the BIOS removed support for S3. Also, modern windows won't let you select S3 sleep if it detects support for S0. There used to be a simple registry edits you could do but Microsoft seem to have closed that loophole. I chose my current laptop because in the BIOS it has a sleep setting, and if you pick the oddly named "Linux sleep" it disables S0 sleep. Thereby allowing S3 sleep in Windows. This is after having a previous laptop act like a heater to my lunch in my bag, or being dead despite being full charged after waking up overnight and running hard till the battery ran out. Or perhaps the most obnoxious, my wife closing her laptop with a video running and at 3am her laptop bringing itself to life waking us up.

Aardwolf 1y ago
> There used to be a simple registry edits you could do but Microsoft seem to have closed that loophole. Why? I mean, what incentive does MS have to say "people are still trying to use the non-buggy sleep that doesn't cause fires, let's close the loophole to force using the buggy sleep"?
- ncann 1y ago
  The non-buggy sleep (S3) isn't even supported in the BIOS in many new laptops now (in the Dell I'm using for example). So MS probably decided to kill that option off for everyone. To be honest it's a very confusing situation since there are so many hardware configurations under Windows and if you search online I think some people are still able to disable S0 on their new laptop/latest Windows, but some (myself) definitely cannot.
  - kasabali 1y ago
    > So MS probably decided to kill that option off for everyone. not so, because of.
- layer8 1y ago
  Probably because "Switching between S3 and Modern Standby cannot be done by changing a setting in the BIOS. Switching the power model is not supported in Windows without a complete OS re-install." Quote from, and more info about Modern Standby, here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de... S3 is considered “legacy”: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby-vs-s3 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de... The main motivation for Modern Standby was to enable instant wakeup and push notification-like functionality during standby, like smartphones. That’s not possible with the traditional sleep modes. Unfortunately it doesn’t work as seamlessly as one would like.

NL807 1y ago

>because the BIOS removed support for S3. i hate this so much