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It's been argued a lot that such a move would cause a good portion of American billionaires to just pack up and move to another country. Rich people are mobile

It's been argued a lot that such a move would cause a good portion of American billionaires to just pack up and move to another country. Rich people are mobile in a way that poor people are not.

pjc50 1y ago
The US is unique in levying taxes on its nationals wherever they are in the world. Although you've just made an argument for capital controls. We could call them "dollar export tariffs".
- Yeul 1y ago
  Believe it or not but there are Americans who relinquish their passport precisely because of this reason. Patriotism is automatically assumed but we live in a globalised world.
  - axus 1y ago
    That seems very likely, but I'd like the names of a few billionaires to verify.
  - AlotOfReading 1y ago
    The US is fairly unique in imposing an "expatriation" tax precisely to avoid this situation. The IRS taxes all of their assets as if sold on the day before expatriation. Of course collecting taxes internationally is difficult, but anyone wealthy enough to meet the criteria will probably need to visit the US at some point.
  - vincnetas 1y ago
    Did you know that US has tools to claim part of your wealth even if you relinquishment the citizenship. Google "exit tax" for us citizens. The US exit tax is a tax on your worldwide assets. The tax applies to all property that you own on the date of renunciation
    - rcxdude 1y ago
      Most of the times I've heard of it happening it's someone who's net worth is well below the threshold for this (indeed well below the threshold where they actually need to pay any income tax to the US government), but because of the headache of needing to file the paperwork and the fact that a lot of banks don't want to deal with US citizens due to extra requirements imposed on them by the US government (via its financial system).
      - amrocha 1y ago
        Maybe the reason you haven’t heard about it is that you don’t know any billionaires? That, and that the US is a tax haven for the super rich, so they have no reason to leave.
- Propelloni 1y ago
  The USA is not unique but member of a very exclusive club. The other member is the enlightened dictatorship of Eritrea. And, IIRC, Trump promised to abolish this taxation during his campaign. I'm not holding my breath.
mk89 1y ago
Plus, if you do that you're a frigging communist. On the other hand, it's so much better to call neighbors, allies and everyone else people pillaging/raping the country. People like drama :)
no_wizard 1y ago
I don't think its that simple and is overly simplistic. If it was all about getting a better deal why wouldn't they have all left for Switzerland by now? Objectively, its a better deal than what the US offers - even on tax rates.
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  Everyone has their own tipping point. Just as salary isn't the only reason to move job, taxes aren't the only reason to stay. But at some point, people move. And the US makes you pay tax overseas anyway, so you can't just move and re-domicile. You have to emigrate and gain citizenship elsewhere.
  - amrocha 1y ago
    You still have to pay an exit tax if you give up citizenship. The tax man gets his cut.
- shagmin 1y ago
  Just within the US you could ask why wealthy people aren't all moving to states without any income taxes more frequently. Plenty do move to certain low tax states but network effects, infrastructure, stability, well-understood regulations, etc., seem to often play a bigger role.
barbazoo 1y ago
> Rich people are mobile in a way that poor people are not. Yet it's poor people that you see migrating most.
- TeMPOraL 1y ago
  Poor people migrate. Rich people... just travel a lot.
neogodless 1y ago
So where is the wealth of the rich stored? Where does their income come from? (e.g. investment growth, etc.) Can't you basically tax their income, and quadruple that tax if they move abroad and want to move their money out of the U.S.? (I'm guessing it's not easy, but I also guess the reason it's not done is because the ultra rich have so much influence on the politicians and tax code... not for whatever other logistical reasons might exist.)
goatlover 1y ago
Good riddance. They can go interfere with someone else's government.
amrocha 1y ago
Sure, they can leave, but if their companies want access to the US market they have to pay taxes. Capital flight is a red herring.
timacles 1y ago
this argument is along the lines of "if theres global warming why is it cold outside today" The rich prosper precisely because they are in the US.
dumbledoren 1y ago
If the billionaires pack up and move to another country, then those who are willing to pay their due taxes and operate with a lesser profit margin would take the place they left in the market. There is no need to oblige sociopathic profiteers because they threaten to leave. And, where will they go, really? There are considerable taxes in every country that billionaires would consider. And if they choose to cram into some small island tax haven in the Caribbean, the US can easily pressure that tax haven to do anything it wants.

It's been argued a lot that such a move would cause a good portion of American billionaires to just pack up and move to another country. Rich people are mobile in a way that poor people are not.

pjc50 1y ago

The US is unique in levying taxes on its nationals wherever they are in the world. Although you've just made an argument for capital controls. We could call them "dollar export tariffs".

Yeul 1y ago
Believe it or not but there are Americans who relinquish their passport precisely because of this reason. Patriotism is automatically assumed but we live in a globalised world.
- axus 1y ago
  That seems very likely, but I'd like the names of a few billionaires to verify.
- AlotOfReading 1y ago
  The US is fairly unique in imposing an "expatriation" tax precisely to avoid this situation. The IRS taxes all of their assets as if sold on the day before expatriation. Of course collecting taxes internationally is difficult, but anyone wealthy enough to meet the criteria will probably need to visit the US at some point.
- vincnetas 1y ago
  Did you know that US has tools to claim part of your wealth even if you relinquishment the citizenship. Google "exit tax" for us citizens. The US exit tax is a tax on your worldwide assets. The tax applies to all property that you own on the date of renunciation
  - rcxdude 1y ago
    Most of the times I've heard of it happening it's someone who's net worth is well below the threshold for this (indeed well below the threshold where they actually need to pay any income tax to the US government), but because of the headache of needing to file the paperwork and the fact that a lot of banks don't want to deal with US citizens due to extra requirements imposed on them by the US government (via its financial system).
    - amrocha 1y ago
      Maybe the reason you haven’t heard about it is that you don’t know any billionaires? That, and that the US is a tax haven for the super rich, so they have no reason to leave.
Propelloni 1y ago
The USA is not unique but member of a very exclusive club. The other member is the enlightened dictatorship of Eritrea. And, IIRC, Trump promised to abolish this taxation during his campaign. I'm not holding my breath.

mk89 1y ago

Plus, if you do that you're a frigging communist. On the other hand, it's so much better to call neighbors, allies and everyone else people pillaging/raping the country. People like drama :)

no_wizard 1y ago

I don't think its that simple and is overly simplistic. If it was all about getting a better deal why wouldn't they have all left for Switzerland by now? Objectively, its a better deal than what the US offers - even on tax rates.

robertlagrant 1y ago
Everyone has their own tipping point. Just as salary isn't the only reason to move job, taxes aren't the only reason to stay. But at some point, people move. And the US makes you pay tax overseas anyway, so you can't just move and re-domicile. You have to emigrate and gain citizenship elsewhere.
- amrocha 1y ago
  You still have to pay an exit tax if you give up citizenship. The tax man gets his cut.
shagmin 1y ago
Just within the US you could ask why wealthy people aren't all moving to states without any income taxes more frequently. Plenty do move to certain low tax states but network effects, infrastructure, stability, well-understood regulations, etc., seem to often play a bigger role.

barbazoo 1y ago

> Rich people are mobile in a way that poor people are not. Yet it's poor people that you see migrating most.

TeMPOraL 1y ago
Poor people migrate. Rich people... just travel a lot.

neogodless 1y ago

So where is the wealth of the rich stored? Where does their income come from? (e.g. investment growth, etc.) Can't you basically tax their income, and quadruple that tax if they move abroad and want to move their money out of the U.S.? (I'm guessing it's not easy, but I also guess the reason it's not done is because the ultra rich have so much influence on the politicians and tax code... not for whatever other logistical reasons might exist.)

goatlover 1y ago

Good riddance. They can go interfere with someone else's government.

amrocha 1y ago

Sure, they can leave, but if their companies want access to the US market they have to pay taxes. Capital flight is a red herring.

timacles 1y ago

this argument is along the lines of "if theres global warming why is it cold outside today" The rich prosper precisely because they are in the US.

dumbledoren 1y ago

If the billionaires pack up and move to another country, then those who are willing to pay their due taxes and operate with a lesser profit margin would take the place they left in the market. There is no need to oblige sociopathic profiteers because they threaten to leave. And, where will they go, really? There are considerable taxes in every country that billionaires would consider. And if they choose to cram into some small island tax haven in the Caribbean, the US can easily pressure that tax haven to do anything it wants.