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US Marines to get high-speed, radar-evading electric seagliders for rescue ops
- JR1427 1y agoThis is like the old Soviet Ekranoplans [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan
- EA-3167 1y agoIt will have many of the same issues too, common to all ground-effect sea planes, namely that wave height, rogue waves, weather conditions, and the ability of pilots to remain highly focused will be major limiting factors.
- knifie_spoonie 1y agoI'm guessing modern sensors and fly-by-wire systems might at least handle the last part.
- mmooss 1y agoWhy must pilots be highly focused? To avoid hitting the ground? I hope there is some autopilot to help with that ...
- Etheryte 1y agoConditions at sea can and do change rapidly, when you're flying something like this, that's crucial.
- m463 1y agoI just wonder about the corrosion problems of an aircraft that spends all its time next to the water. But maybe this kind of thing is made out of materials more like a surfboard than an sr-71.
- ck2 1y ago[flagged]
- heavymetalpoizn 1y ago[dead]
- lttlrck 1y ago$4.75mln seem like a great deal for a working prototype? I'd love one of these in MS Flight Simulator or DCS.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Rygian 1y agoI wonder why the title clarifies "for rescue ops". Is there anything inherent to this technology that prevents it from being used for anything else? The article body insists on "demonstrations relevant to specific defense operations" which sounds quite broad and not limited to rescue ops in any way.
- philipwhiuk 1y agoIt sounds less aggressive.
- 1970-01-01 1y agoIt's too low to do anything else. Snipers would decimate an entire attack squadron.
- nilamo 1y ago- Very fast - avoids radar/detection - water based My first assumption is that this is for stealth ops. "Rescue" doesn't need those features.
- mrweasel 1y agoFast and water based I can sort of see, but there's no point to it avoiding radar. The range of 180 miles (assuming I read that correctly) also makes it pretty pointless for search and rescue. You would have to know where someone is, the weather must be good enough to land on water, and they can't be more than 60 miles away. A NH90 helicopter is faster, at 190mph (300km/h) and have longer range at 500 miles (800km). It also doesn't have to land to rescue someone.
- icegreentea2 1y agoHa, I love the "rescue ops". This will not primarily be for rescue ops. This will be for supporting Marine standin operations on and within the first island chain. The marines have been trying to figure out how they can handle sustainment and logistics in that environment. You can read some wonkish article about this (back in 2022) https://warontherocks.com/2022/09/sustainment-of-the-stand-in-force/ https://warontherocks.com/2022/09/sustainment-of-the-stand-i... . You'll note that the article does suggest revisiting seaplanes as a distribution option. With a few hundred miles range, these craft would be suitable as one way island to island hoppers, or 2 way over the horizon ship to shore transports. For a sense of scale, its ~140 miles from Luzon to Scarborough Shoal (one of the contested islands in the South China Sea). The "Viceroy" craft that Regent has mocked up on their website claims 180 mile range, 3500lb of cargo / 2 crew + 12 passengers. EDIT: And to be clear, the article title says "to get", but the article makes clear, this is basically a testing and development contract. There's no certainty that the Marines will get this capability in any meaningful way. Probably better to replace with "to test". This is particularly important because the commercial version of this craft is also still in development and testing.
- mlyle 1y ago> This will not primarily be for rescue ops It seems like combat SAR in the maritime environment is what these are best at. > The "Viceroy" craft that Regent has mocked up on their website claims 180 mile range, 3500lb of cargo / 2 crew + 12 passengers. This is like 1/4th the size needed for minimum scale sustainment and support. Not to say that it won't be used for that in a pinch or for special operations, but it's pretty limited. Of course, there's been talk about building huge ones.
- icegreentea2 1y agoThe company press release states "The second phase of work will examine seaglider capabilities across missions including contested logistics and medevac/casevac". I agree that this would be useful for medevac/casevac, but I'm less sure about the search part of SAR. 180 miles is not a lot of range for searching. I still believe this is primarily about contested logistics, because the USMC still hasn't solved that issue. One of the stand in force concept's biggest weakness right now is how will the marines go about sustaining the force. There's a lot of good ideas written down, but concretely they still don't have good solutions. I think it's fairly clear that the Marines will look to unnamed undersea vehicles as one vector, but I think they're looking for flexibility and redundancy (and certainly the speed that these guys offer would be interesting). What's written about SIFs is that the Marines anticipate the majority of SIFs to be deployed in the crisis building phase. They do not envision on day one of a shooting war, somehow dispersing all of their forces across the first island chain - they take for granted that they will somehow do that in the build up. After that, then ya, maybe just med/casevac and resupply is what they're after. I have a hard time finding concrete examples, but I always envisioned an example detachment being roughly platoon sized. Basically, imagine being able to man a NMESIS launcher or two, ISR, and a squad or two of infantry for security. I think at that point, these vehicles become more viable for certain types of sustainment. You could for example priority rush more NSMs to a detachment.
- acc_297 1y agoFrom the wiki I take it they have yet to build and fly a full-sized prototype "A 1/4 scale model was successfully demonstrated in 2022 in Narragansett Bay"[1] Also I assume radar-proof is just because it's a ground effect vehicle that will never fly high enough to show up on radar it certainly doesn't look all angular like a stealth bomber. In which case my bicycle is also radar-proof? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REGENT_Viceroy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REGENT_Viceroy
- icegreentea2 1y agoThey just started testing a full scale prototype like at the start of March. https://www.regentcraft.com/news/regent-begins-sea-trials-of-first-passenger-carrying-seaglider https://www.regentcraft.com/news/regent-begins-sea-trials-of... They've done boat mode tests, but they haven't flown yet.
- acc_297 1y agoThanks for sharing, I honestly wish this company the best electric planes are a hard problem to solve and it's good to see anyone making an honest effort. However to poke just a little fun this line stands out as a hilarious marketing claim that cannot possibly be true "Almost all (98%) of UAE coastal residents are interested in riding a seaglider, according to our global consumer survey." It's also interesting to note that the CEO has appeared on no fewer than 13 different podcasts between mid-2022 and last week which is I suppose how one would go about getting a high value US defence contract these days.
- Mistletoe 1y agoI’m imagining the aging defense contract awarders listening to the podcasts right now on the treadmill.
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago> Also I assume radar-proof is just because it's a ground effect vehicle that will never fly high enough to show up on radar My guess is yes. Simply because the Caspian Sea Monster [1] was "the largest and heaviest aircraft in the world from 1966 to 1988", not at all stealthy looking, and simultaneously also "undetectable to many radar systems, as it flew below the minimum altitude of detection." So yes, a much smaller craft will also be hard to radar. Notwithstanding that the tech has moved on at both the "detect" and "don't be detected" ends of the contest. As I understand it, it's also easier and safer to fly these craft now, as they are computer-stabilised, which the 1960s design could not have been. And therefore easier and safer to fly them lower. (The Caspian Sea Monster "was destroyed following a crash caused by pilot error." ) 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster
- fidotron 1y agoGround effect vehicles could be the thing that's needed to make drone based delivery a reasonable thing to do, especially around lakes. It's one of life's perennial disappointments that such things only get done in military terms and under the ludicrous notion they are rescue vessels.
- nradov 1y agoThat's never going to happen. Only a tiny fraction of the population live directly on lakeshores, and basically no warehouses. If drone based delivery is going to work then they'll have to fly out of ground effect to avoid structures and trees. The main advantage of ground effect vehicles is lower fuel consumption over long distances. That's not a priority for the short range battery powered drones used by delivery services.
- lawlessone 1y ago>Only a tiny fraction of the population live directly on lakeshores, I think you are mistaken sir. I live by a lake myself and i've just talked to my neighbors, and they all live by a lake too.
- throwway120385 1y agoMy startup is working on playing soothing music on drones using differential timing of rotor speeds. We've made some impressive inroads in the past few years. We're planning on adding a model that also plays birdsong for exactly this use case in the next couple of years!
- m4rtink 1y agoI think drone based delivery is a solved problem by now, thanks to the very rapid developments in the last 2 years ? Some of the drones are now even fiber optic guided and thus resistant to jamming by the competition!
- tonyarkles 1y ago
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- nimbius 1y ago>high speed these are prop aircraft. >radar evading except for that insane heat signature coming from the half dozen DC motors and the RF emissions from them. >electric unless teslas making it...probably not... this sounds like a pork project...or PR fluff.
- financetechbro 1y agoBecause Tesla is the only company capable of making electric vehicles…?
- MaxPock 1y agoCongratulations for having capabilities Russia has had for three decades.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y agoWhich are in active service today? Regardless, the US beat Russia to that too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_X-112 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_X-112 oorah!
- verponik 1y ago[flagged]
- verponik 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- nsiemsen 1y agoIt's a YC W21 company! https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/regent https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/regent
- calmbonsai 1y agoWow, that's quite the "mission pivot". We already have all-electric trainers like the Bye eFlyer https://byeaerospace.com/ https://byeaerospace.com/ so I can see this "working", but I'm not certain how effective it would be compared to something as well-tested as the "stealth" version of the MH-6 helicopter that's been in production for about a decade. Additionally, the basic non-stealth MH-6 airframe and power-plant configuration has been around since the 1960s so its base flight characteristics are well-known.
- zombiwoof 1y agoHello Greenland
- ein0p 1y agoAre they drone evading though? Because if not, then this is a waste of time and taxpayer money. Literally any idiot can 3D print a drone capable of defeating tens of millions of dollars in military hardware from 15-20 miles away. We're not in Kansas anymore.
- hnav 1y ago3D print a drone that will intercept a 180mph vessel from 20 miles away? You should consider putting together a prototype, I can only imagine you'd receive funding.
- ein0p 1y agoYou're assuming pursuit. For intercept you don't need a 180mph drone, you just need a somewhat predictable trajectory. You're also assuming constant motion away from shore or other ships, at top speed. Drones with speeds of up to 225kph (140mph) are already in use in Ukraine, although their payload is designed to take down heavy drones and helicopters (only a couple of pounds), and their range is only 12 miles. Nothing a month or two of rather straightforward scale-up couldn't fix. That's before we consider the practical scenario where a larger drone just drops these over the target. And if we assume the adversary is China, there could be hundreds of these larger drones in the air, with dozens of smaller drones each.
- hnav 1y agoI don't doubt that you can physically carry big enough of a payload on an intercept trajectory, I just doubt that a clandestinely manufactured quadcopter will be able to either autonomously track its target (not big enough to carry a radar) or be controllable from 20 miles away (even in Ukraine EW is pervasive). More realistically they'd try to modify the targeting of their existing AtoA and send fighters. Which is kinda like a bunch of big drones carrying small ones.
- ein0p 1y agoFighters and AtoA are extremely expensive and difficult to manufacture in quantity. You can make drones pretty much anywhere (with a steady supply of cheap flight controllers), for next to nothing, and strap all sorts of payloads to them. If I were the adversary, I'd send a bunch of cheap drones first, to deplete defensive ammo, and then _maybe_ send something heavy duty and expensive. Literally, one single rocket (not to mention a fighter jet) can cost as much as a couple hundred disposable drones. You tell me which is harder to defend against, one rocket or a huge swarm of semi-autonomous drones (computer vision in the terminal phase is quite common by now).
- ThrowOregonAway 1y ago[dead]
- natmaka 1y agoÉben-Émael on Sea! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_%C3%89ben-%C3%89mael https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_%C3%89ben-%C3%8...
- bluesounddirect 1y agois this a ground effect machine?
- llm_nerd 1y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXE0UTHnV5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXE0UTHnV5g It is a ground effect vehicle.
- EA 1y ago"Our vehicle, called a seaglider, is an all-electric, wing-in-ground-effect craft that operates within a wingspan of the water's surface and couples the speed of an airplane with the operating cost of a boat."
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago"seaglider" is apparently a new word for ekranoplan. The difference is, the new ones tend not to be so enormous [1]. See e.g. https://www.regentcraft.com/seagliders/viceroy https://www.regentcraft.com/seagliders/viceroy and https://www.hawaiiseaglider.org/what-is-a-seaglider https://www.hawaiiseaglider.org/what-is-a-seaglider It's the same craft with a different paint job Yes, they are Wing-in-Ground craft 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster
- phire 1y agoOne more litetal translation of "ekranoplan" is "screen glider", so sea glider isn't that far away from it.
- gertrunde 1y agoI suspect that in this case "seaglider" is just REGENT's marketing name, rather than a term with broader uptake. All the places I'm seeing the name 'seaglider' used in this context look like REGENT's prospective customers. The term is also being used for some underwater drones (see https://apl.uw.edu/project/project.php?id=seaglider https://apl.uw.edu/project/project.php?id=seaglider and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaglider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaglider).
- CapricornNoble 1y agoSo they are just at Phase 2 of developing prototypes with the Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory? Ok, that explains why I've not heard/seen any deployment plans for these things within the next 5 years out here....which probably means if we do get them, we'll get them too late to influence the war with China over Taiwan. Other comments are correct that the Corps isn't even close to solving the contested sustainment/logistics problems here in the First Island Chain, or in the South China Sea. These seagliders are a nifty solution to the signature management issues, but their payload is tiny. We need the ability to move pallets of munitions or other cargo.
- 650REDHAIR 1y agoSeeing YC-backed companies turn into DoD contractors makes me a little sick to my stomach.
- foxyv 1y agoLow altitude is no longer a viable strategy for evading radar. Especially with the advent of datalink enabled satellite and other forms of downward looking radar. The propellers show up on pulse doppler like a flashing emergency light. Especially over the ocean with so little ground clutter.