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Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada
- gnabgib 1y agoDiscussion (53 points, 9 hours ago, 36 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43495824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43495824
- sepositus 1y ago> Stanley said this order sets the country “on a path to educational authoritarianism”. Paying large sums of taxes for a school that is unquestionably failing my children, with no option to attend another school (without shelling an unfathomable amount of money for private schooling), feels like educational authoritarianism to me.
- OgsyedIE 1y agoAs somebody on the other political side, I wouldn't want federal tax dollars going to mormon universities in a vacuum. To prevent more culture war distractions from the faculty's jobs of teaching, I think anybody who can do math can agree that: Either every university should get subsidies proportional to the effectiveness of their graduates or no universities should get any subsidies at all.
- theGeatZhopa 1y agowhat about every university should get subsidies per student's head-count and let the universities decide what for the money is used? The market will regulate the demand & supply of places and the universities have an incentive to grow and to attract students by quality. If its mormon-university and mormonism happens to be in big-demand, so then its a mormon university that gets subsidies. At least, its in europe mostly like this.
- drivingmenuts 1y agoReligious institutions should only be supported by voluntary contributions from those who believe in its mission. No state should ever give money to a religious institution, for any reason, because no state should favor one religion over another. To do so leads to religious authoritarianism, which is a direct precursor to religious segregation and persecution. Money given to the state should only be used for purposes that benefit all citizens equally or to level the playing field for the less fortunate.
- FilosofumRex 1y agoSecularism/atheism is a religion too. It has dogmas on abortion, homosexuality, fornication, usury, adultery, education of children, and hatred towards other religions (as shown by you).
- noman-land 1y agoThe dogmas, if you want to call them that, come from rational thought, not a magic man in the sky.
- theGeatZhopa 1y agoIt may be a "woman in the sky". We don't know.
- sightbroke 1y agoI am not sure secularism is synonymous with atheism. I am pretty sure secular policies would be avoiding advocating or prohibiting for atheism just as it would for any other form of views that fall into religious or faith beliefs.
- sepositus 1y ago> Secularism is the principle of seeking to conduct human affairs based on naturalistic considerations, uninvolved with religion. It is most commonly thought of as the separation of religion from civil affairs and the state and may be broadened to a similar position seeking to remove or to minimize the role of religion in any public sphere. That's the introduction from Wikipedia, which matches my understanding of the definition. It's not synonymous with atheism. However, given its stated mission of minimizing religion, it seems like it would be relatively unconcerned if atheism were to be treated more favorably.
- tbrownaw 1y ago> what about every university should get subsidies per student's head-count and let the universities decide what for the money is used? From what I understand it usually works better to pay for results rather than effort.
- LaundroMat 1y agoPaying for results sounds efficient, until you start thinking about what those results should be and how you'd prevent policy makers anyone politicizing them and educational institutions from gaming them.
- trilbyglens 1y agoThis. So how do you compare physics outcomes with humanities outcomes or creative fields of study versus science or engineering? "Success" is often neither quantifiable nor immediately obvious.
- theGeatZhopa 1y agoYou may have a point with it's better to pay for results. But that lead to an chicken-egg-problem. Without chicken no eggs and without eggs no chickens. So, how to achieve good results, if they are needed upfront to get subsidies and subsidies are needed to offer opportunities to achieve results? It's not always better to pay for results. Paying for effort would also allow the headcount and university size to be regulated by the market. If you are a university no one wants to adhere to, then you also would not get any subsidies and have an incentive to become better in whatever you teach, without questioning first, where to get the money from. I see it as a try to remove people without money from education. That fits with all the wisdom trump is producing every single day. Stupid.
- ffsm8 1y agoI don't think that's a logical conclusion, just from looking at your argument. Universities are pretty much always basically regional-monopolies, while it's true that not every university gets the same amount of applicants, I don't think they're struggling to get students altogether? But I'm not American, so maybe it's different in the USA? If it's not different in the US, then this kind of subsidy is much worse then the result based one, because their incentive ends at getting people into courses, not successfully finishing them. So from a profit incentive, keeping them an extra year is highly desirable
- jauntywundrkind 1y agoI might maybe perhaps be willing to consider this if we revoke the tax exempt status of religious institutions. Maybe. I still doubt it.
- BrandoElFollito 1y agoReligion is a cultural and historical construction and part of our life. There are constructions such as churches that are part if a country history. The state supports, say, history teaching so religious artefacts should be partly financed by the state. Which ones is the question. Note: I am French, profoundly atheist and actively anti religion. But I love yhe culture and thus the history of my country.
- thunderfork 1y ago[dead]
- sightbroke 1y agoYou can consider moving to a better district.
- sepositus 1y agoHow about sending my children to the school 20 miles away that is doing orders of magnitude better than my local district? Not an option apparently. Even tried several routes, including appealing to the school board, and I'm effectively ignored on every attempt. Anyways, moving is not an option for me, as I have local dependents that I am responsible for taking care of and who would be abandoned if I left.
- sightbroke 1y agoI am confused. 20 mile commute to school is feasible personally for your child but moving 20 miles to be in the district suddenly makes taking care of certain individual infeasible?
- sepositus 1y agoThis completely ignores the problem. I shouldn't have to sell my house and move to go to a school I can drive my kids to. But, to answer your confusion, the median house price almost doubles in this area. So it's economically infeasible.
- sightbroke 1y agoI wonder if there is a correlation with higher priced homes and improved school districts?
- sepositus 1y agoI'm not immediately aware of any studies, but I would be shocked if there wasn't a correlation. Low-income families have a higher probability of raising children in a dysfunctional home who then become a burden on the local school district. Respectable teachers then flee these schools for better opportunities. This part isn't conjecture, as I'm recounting personal testimonies of teachers who have come and gone from my town. Whether this is a widespread issue, or how much of the problem it represents, I cannot confirm.
- cherry_tree 1y agoSo you are in favor of reducing the funding your childs school receives from the federal government? And for using the government to restrict funding to universities unless they comply with limiting the speech of students and professors? I don’t see how that makes your child’s school better, can you explain how we get from A to B?
- duringmath 1y ago1. You'd think he would want to study it up close. 2. If anything it's "fascism lite" and it's only for 4 years. 3. I'm not sure that forcing some belt tightening on a bloated academia is the worst thing in the world.
- lwansbrough 1y agoSurely it will only be 4 years!
- RandomBacon 1y agoIt was the first time. How much do you want to wager?
- judahmeek 1y agoDo you or do you not acknowledge that Trump's authoritarian tendencies are a threat to democratic institutions?
- tonfreed 1y agoThe entire American political establishment has been on a worrying slide to authoritarianism for most of my life. I remember the flow over here in Australia after 9/11, and the threats that were made on the public if they didn't go along with it. Didn't get any better under Obama, we saw a massive increase in the surveillance state under his tenure. It was incredible how quickly the media dropped the journo wiretapping scandal. Let's also not forget the summer of love riots and the behaviour of protestors storming the congress over justice Kavanagh, they've galvanised the right somewhat. Over here we have a growing right wing movement that came from the COVID lockdowns, where our elites and institutions pretty much burned every scrap of goodwill we afforded them for seemingly no end. The post war paradigm is dead, and I don't think we have the language to describe the new one that's currently forming yet.
- pacomerh 1y ago
- verdverm 1y agoThe brain drain is beginning
- red020 1y ago[flagged]
- totalkikedeath 1y ago[dead]
- krembo 1y agoSome random dude is relocating. The internets - "The brain drain is beginning, were doomed"
- timbit42 1y agoDon't forget to count all the doctors moving out the US to Canada and the EU.
- verdverm 1y agoNot the first, not just random, all things start with a few and then may grow
- archagon 1y agoRandom? Try well-known historian and published author.
- chneu 1y agoI know dozens of US academics who have moved out of US or are planning to, because of Trump and conservative's war on information. I'm just one person. It's anecdotal but speaks volumes that I'd know that many.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- pfannkuchen 1y agoOne thing I think is interesting about the fascism label is - if you time traveled the US government leadership from 1945 to today, who would they align with more? How would they treat these issues? Or was the US fascist in 1923 when the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind that Indians aren’t white and therefore can’t be granted citizenship? That seems, like, massively more “fascist” than anything happening today. But historically no one considers 1923 America to be fascist, and it went to war against fascists shortly thereafter. Hmm.
- MengerSponge 1y ago1923 Germany wasn't fascist either. 1933 Germany, for what it's worth, liked a lot of things about 1923 America. Nazi eugenics grew from American ideas.
- pfannkuchen 1y ago1923 Germany not being fascist is irrelevant to my point. My point is that during the time period where USA was considered fascist-fighting heroes according to the mainstream account, they themselves had many views that were considered normal back then but strongly “fascist” today. I guess the definition of fascist must have changed?
- aaplok 1y agoChanged compared to when? Back in 1939 Nazism and Fascism were different doctrines, which were soon put in the same bag of "fascism" for the purpose of war propaganda from the allies. Bizarrely the equally insane Japanese racism wasn't called fascist. Nowadays fascism has become synonymous with right extremists in popular culture, I guess because it's an easy way to discredit a political opponent. I believe that scholars who study political science have a different and more consistent definition of fascism, though it too likely evolved to capture the essential characteristics of related ideologies. A significant difference between Jim Crow's America and fascist regimes is the concentration of power into the hands of one man (or a small group). That means that separation of power (executive, judiciary, legislative) that existed through American history did not exist in Fascist Italy or Nazi Germany. Another one is nationalism. There are likely others.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- FilosofumRex 1y agoMost philosophy dept nowadays have fewer undergrads than profs. An entitled liberal arts prof from an elitist university leaving the US for Canada, will improve both nations.
- archagon 1y ago“Entitled” how? Sounds like innuendo for “I don’t like him.”
- suraci 1y agovery unwise, the US is the best place in the world for studying fascism
- readthenotes1 1y ago[flagged]
- Ferret7446 1y agoI would wager that he's part of the problem. "Those who can't do, teach."
- archagon 1y agoA pithy phrase frequently uttered by those who can’t do or teach. Or have no idea what academia actually entails.
- locusm 1y agoThat headline makes it sound like he had to flee under the cover of darkness.
- jeetoid 1y agoJason Stanley? Jason Stanley, the Jacob Urowsky Professor of Philosophy at Yale University? [1] [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oomvEjJAI44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oomvEjJAI44