7 ms·

If iOS only allows you to build a worse experience, then Apple customers will leave the platform for Android. The problem solves itself.

by jisnsm 2y ago

Brainspackle 2y ago
No I won't, Android is not a good user experience. I'd rather buy an Apple Watch.
- kelnos 2y ago
  And this is exactly the problem. Apple presents many of their users with bad choices: either buy an Apple Watch and suffer from its downsides, or switch to Android, and suffer in other ways. Or stick with the iPhone, buy a third-party smartwatch, and suffer from and unnecessarily-crippled user experience. There's no technical reason it needs to be this way. Apple just prefers to be anti-competitive and increase their profits, than to give their users the as-close-to-ideal experience they want.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
You couldn't pay me to go back to Android, having used Android from 2009-2020. Apple Watch is fantastic, I'm a little sad that they don't provide better integration capabilities to external devices. I can only assume that's another anti-competitive lawsuit brewing.
Steve16384 2y ago
It doesn't if there are only two choices and consumers don't like either.
- jisnsm 2y ago
  That’s not Apple’s fault or responsibility. Maybe Android should stop sucking.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Sure it is. Both Apple and Google, through various tactics, have ensured that it's virtually impossible for a third smartphone OS to be successful to anywhere near the level they have been. Android is fine. It has some downsides vs. iOS, and some advantages. But that isn't the point. The point is that to make a new smartphone OS (or even one that's based on Android, but is independent of the Google ecosystem) that can do everything Android and iOS can do is an undertaking that few would even bother to take on. That's not due to technical challenges, it's due to market barriers that Apple and Google have erected. (IMO, the sorts of things that we as citizens in a healthy society should not allow corporations to do.) And those that (sorta?) do try to make a competing OS, like LineageOS, GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, etc., end up with far less-capable phones than a Google-blessed Android phone. (And when most/all of those capabilities are present, it's through brittle hacks and compromises that basically turn the phone into an imitation of the Google-blessed phone, with many of the downsides intact.) Put another way, it's not Apple's or Google's responsibility to make things more competitive, but it is their responsibility to not make things anti competitive, and it is their fault when alternatives don't exist because of their anti-competitive behavior.
presbyterian 2y ago
I don't think this is true. Apple could drop smart watch support entirely and I still wouldn't use an Android phone. I personally find the user experience infinitely better on iOS than on Android, and Apple would have to drop the ball very bad to get me to switch. (Note: This isn't because Apple is without faults. iOS and macOS are both a mess right now, and iPadOS is even worse. I just think that Android is worse than that, and I know many, many Apple users are in the same boat)
- beeflet 2y ago
  what's so bad about android
  - snapcaster 2y ago
    Operating system made by advertising company is why it's a deal breaker for me
    - kelnos 2y ago
      GGP mentions "user experience" being "infinitely better". I don't think Android being made by an advertising company has much if anything to do with it. I also don't see iOS and Android having much of a usability gap. At this point, they have very similar feature sets, and the UX is fairly well-polished, even on Android -- where yes, it took them a lot longer to get there. For the most part, if you think that either platform has bad UX, it's probably just because you've used the other one for so long, and you're used to it. (I don't think iPhone usability is bad, but on the rare occasion I do something on my wife's iPhone, I find it frustrating because it just works differently than my Android phone.) At this point I think most (US; can't speak for other countries) iPhone users are there mainly because they've always been there, and there's fairly strong lock-in and switching costs. And iPhones are still something of a status symbol, not to mention unnecessary Apple-created problems like the "blue bubble envy" nonsense.
      - presbyterian 2y ago
kelnos 2y ago
No, because it's much lower friction to "just" give up and buy an Apple Watch (or just do without), even if you don't like it and think that the features or design a third-party watch are better for you. Or at least could be better, if not for Apple's anti-competitive practices. The problem is that people don't really have choice. Both iOS and Android have positives and negatives, and often those positives and negatives are not the same. Choosing one or the other is going to have you missing some positives you want, and taking on some negatives that bug you. If this was just the nature of how things have to be, I'd be more sympathetic. But the real reason it's this way is due to anti-competitive behavior on the part of Apple. There are no technical limitations; it's just their business model to restrict what people can do with the device they've bought. There are certainly some valid security reasons for doing this in some cases, but most of it is just to protect their revenue streams.
lozenge 2y ago
How long is the problem going to take to solve itself?
- jisnsm 2y ago
  From my argument it follows that Apple customers don’t care about this.
beart 2y ago
Isn't this ignoring the lock-in factor? Leaving Apple is probably more than just switching a single piece of hardware for many users. The entire Apple ecosystem encourages "buying in". As a few examples * (almost all) bought apps don't transfer * bought media (music, etc) and how that integrates into the software * icloud and other account services * replacing your phone + laptop + watch + IOT devices which may all be in the apple ecosystem. So one can easily see how folks who have bought in are willing to put up with user-hostile actions. Of course, Apple is not the only company that uses integration as a way to retain customers. However, from personal experience, I feel Android is a bit more open (at the cost of a more fractured experience). I can definitely understand the pros of not having to deal with carrier installed garbage when purchasing a device.

If iOS only allows you to build a worse experience, then Apple customers will leave the platform for Android. The problem solves itself.

by jisnsm 2y ago

If iOS only allows you to build a worse experience, then Apple customers will leave the platform for Android. The problem solves itself.

Brainspackle 2y ago

No I won't, Android is not a good user experience. I'd rather buy an Apple Watch.

kelnos 2y ago
And this is exactly the problem. Apple presents many of their users with bad choices: either buy an Apple Watch and suffer from its downsides, or switch to Android, and suffer in other ways. Or stick with the iPhone, buy a third-party smartwatch, and suffer from and unnecessarily-crippled user experience. There's no technical reason it needs to be this way. Apple just prefers to be anti-competitive and increase their profits, than to give their users the as-close-to-ideal experience they want.

giancarlostoro 2y ago

You couldn't pay me to go back to Android, having used Android from 2009-2020. Apple Watch is fantastic, I'm a little sad that they don't provide better integration capabilities to external devices. I can only assume that's another anti-competitive lawsuit brewing.

Steve16384 2y ago

It doesn't if there are only two choices and consumers don't like either.

jisnsm 2y ago
That’s not Apple’s fault or responsibility. Maybe Android should stop sucking.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Sure it is. Both Apple and Google, through various tactics, have ensured that it's virtually impossible for a third smartphone OS to be successful to anywhere near the level they have been. Android is fine. It has some downsides vs. iOS, and some advantages. But that isn't the point. The point is that to make a new smartphone OS (or even one that's based on Android, but is independent of the Google ecosystem) that can do everything Android and iOS can do is an undertaking that few would even bother to take on. That's not due to technical challenges, it's due to market barriers that Apple and Google have erected. (IMO, the sorts of things that we as citizens in a healthy society should not allow corporations to do.) And those that (sorta?) do try to make a competing OS, like LineageOS, GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, etc., end up with far less-capable phones than a Google-blessed Android phone. (And when most/all of those capabilities are present, it's through brittle hacks and compromises that basically turn the phone into an imitation of the Google-blessed phone, with many of the downsides intact.) Put another way, it's not Apple's or Google's responsibility to make things more competitive, but it is their responsibility to not make things anti competitive, and it is their fault when alternatives don't exist because of their anti-competitive behavior.

presbyterian 2y ago

I don't think this is true. Apple could drop smart watch support entirely and I still wouldn't use an Android phone. I personally find the user experience infinitely better on iOS than on Android, and Apple would have to drop the ball very bad to get me to switch. (Note: This isn't because Apple is without faults. iOS and macOS are both a mess right now, and iPadOS is even worse. I just think that Android is worse than that, and I know many, many Apple users are in the same boat)

beeflet 2y ago
what's so bad about android
- snapcaster 2y ago
  Operating system made by advertising company is why it's a deal breaker for me
  - kelnos 2y ago
    GGP mentions "user experience" being "infinitely better". I don't think Android being made by an advertising company has much if anything to do with it. I also don't see iOS and Android having much of a usability gap. At this point, they have very similar feature sets, and the UX is fairly well-polished, even on Android -- where yes, it took them a lot longer to get there. For the most part, if you think that either platform has bad UX, it's probably just because you've used the other one for so long, and you're used to it. (I don't think iPhone usability is bad, but on the rare occasion I do something on my wife's iPhone, I find it frustrating because it just works differently than my Android phone.) At this point I think most (US; can't speak for other countries) iPhone users are there mainly because they've always been there, and there's fairly strong lock-in and switching costs. And iPhones are still something of a status symbol, not to mention unnecessary Apple-created problems like the "blue bubble envy" nonsense.
    - presbyterian 2y ago

kelnos 2y ago

No, because it's much lower friction to "just" give up and buy an Apple Watch (or just do without), even if you don't like it and think that the features or design a third-party watch are better for you. Or at least could be better, if not for Apple's anti-competitive practices. The problem is that people don't really have choice. Both iOS and Android have positives and negatives, and often those positives and negatives are not the same. Choosing one or the other is going to have you missing some positives you want, and taking on some negatives that bug you. If this was just the nature of how things have to be, I'd be more sympathetic. But the real reason it's this way is due to anti-competitive behavior on the part of Apple. There are no technical limitations; it's just their business model to restrict what people can do with the device they've bought. There are certainly some valid security reasons for doing this in some cases, but most of it is just to protect their revenue streams.

lozenge 2y ago

How long is the problem going to take to solve itself?

jisnsm 2y ago
From my argument it follows that Apple customers don’t care about this.

beart 2y ago

Isn't this ignoring the lock-in factor? Leaving Apple is probably more than just switching a single piece of hardware for many users. The entire Apple ecosystem encourages "buying in". As a few examples * (almost all) bought apps don't transfer * bought media (music, etc) and how that integrates into the software * icloud and other account services * replacing your phone + laptop + watch + IOT devices which may all be in the apple ecosystem. So one can easily see how folks who have bought in are willing to put up with user-hostile actions. Of course, Apple is not the only company that uses integration as a way to retain customers. However, from personal experience, I feel Android is a bit more open (at the cost of a more fractured experience). I can definitely understand the pros of not having to deal with carrier installed garbage when purchasing a device.