5 ms·

If even half of this is true, I wonder what the future of HN is? THis forum is backed by Ycombinator, a US based "investment" company. Do they have plans to re

If even half of this is true, I wonder what the future of HN is? THis forum is backed by Ycombinator, a US based "investment" company. Do they have plans to relocate to friendlier climes?

silvestrov 2y ago
I see an even bigger problem with Wikipedia. How long time will it be before they are pressured to censor or change articles? Will they even have the power to move?
- OgsyedIE 2y ago
  Wikimedia has spent years setting up a parallel org in Germany. The internet archive, ICANN, PCH and IETF are far more exposed to U.S. risk than WMF.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Germany has similar problems but at least they are confined to the topic of Israel. If Wikipedia's hosted in Germany right now, it's committing a crime there.
- mcintyre1994 2y ago
  Wikipedia is already a target. The Heritage Foundation (who wrote Project 2025) is planning to identify and doxx editors. Reported by Forward who obtained the documents: https://forward.com/news/686797/heritage-foundation-wikipedia-antisemitism/ https://forward.com/news/686797/heritage-foundation-wikipedi...
  - OgsyedIE 2y ago
    Strictly speaking that is probably not as important a risk as the direct political risk of the Wikipedia 501c being involuntarily dissolved by AG Pam Bondi.
close04 2y ago
I'm sure they'll find a way to make a profit working with the system rather than against it.
- kolektiv 2y ago
  Quite - so far the tech community (at the top level), with a few exceptions, has shown itself quite willing to bend itself to whatever is required as long as it can carry on making money. The cowardice involved is apparent, do not look to corporations as your potential protectors. They've never turned out to be before, they're not going to be this time either. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_...
  - OgsyedIE 2y ago
    What makes you think that Zuck, Ellison, Pichai etc are "obeying in advance" and haven't already received implied verbal threats of imprisonment?
    - close04 2y ago
      Meta or Alphabet did whatever they needed to extract profits from their users. What makes you think that all of a sudden they would pivot from chasing profits to defending those users, as opposed to playing ball with whoever they need to in order to make even more profits? What matters at the end of the day is that despite all the big talk of "freedom of speech" and "doing what's right", companies like Meta or YC almost always bend the knee (and the spine) and play ball to make money even if it contradicts everything they purportedly stood for. Just replace the motto.
      - nonrandomstring 2y ago
        > What makes you think that all of a sudden they would pivot from chasing profits to defending those users, You're putting YC into the same box as Meta? I'm probably very naive, but I think it's necessary to defend your users if your business model depends on them. What is YC's business model? It's "innovation". HN is a forum cultivated to encourage free exchange of disruptive ideas. That is not possible under conditions of technofascism. I expect the creators of this forum understand that, are worried, but have maybe convinced themselves it's safe to play along at ideology for now. If I thought there were not a significant cohort of humanist/anti-fascist technologists here I would not stay or contribute and I expect I speak for many others.
itsibitzi 2y ago
The elite Silicon Valley venture capitalist class has made it pretty clear which side they're on.
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  They pick their sides for profitable expedience. I expect they would betray those sides just as fast for profitable expedience. US, EU, it's all one big world, and business never prospers in the long-run under the heel of a boot.
- chillingeffect 2y ago
  Is it a monoculture? obviously theres Thiel and his clan. But are there other powerful elements?
mentalgear 2y ago
It's time to look for an European HN alternative.
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  FTR that's not what I'm suggesting. Good communities are worth protecting and preserving. But that means looking out for threats to a community and defending the members. Clearly moderators (of all US-based forums) are facing a hard time. And FWIW it's even worse in UK where forum hosts are simply shutting down rather than face draconian threat tactics of deliberate ambiguity (by OFCOM).
- OgsyedIE 2y ago
  I agree but I think most people will reject the idea without considering it if it isn't formatted as a 1500-word article hosted on substack.
mexicocitinluez 2y ago
> Do they have plans to relocate to friendlier climes? Bro, do you even know who Paul Graham is? He'll do anything to satisfy those turds and then write a blog post about how being kind to others is destroying the world.
- codingbot3000 2y ago
  You might remember he was one of those recommending to vote for Harris. And some of the reasons he gave can be found also in the article btw.
  - mexicocitinluez 2y ago
    Recommending Harris and sucking up to whoever wins are not mutually exclusive ideas in the realm of people with too much money. Also, and this is a big also, he defended Elon buying Twitter for free speech. So I'd say his grasp of what should actually constitute free speech (the topic in this article) is a bit muddled at the moment
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  Paul Graham wrote some very fine LISP books IIRC, and that's absolutely all I know about him. We may have had some cordial exchanges here on HN. To the extent Mr Graham is influential on this forum I'm sure he understands the peril facing any nexus of open speech in the current technofascist climate.
samiv 2y ago
I don't know if it's a co-incidence but this topic disappeared from the front page faster than you can say "front page"...
debo_ 2y ago
It's ok, dang will fix it
- SauciestGNU 2y ago
  dang for president!

If even half of this is true, I wonder what the future of HN is? THis forum is backed by Ycombinator, a US based "investment" company. Do they have plans to relocate to friendlier climes?

silvestrov 2y ago

I see an even bigger problem with Wikipedia. How long time will it be before they are pressured to censor or change articles? Will they even have the power to move?

OgsyedIE 2y ago
Wikimedia has spent years setting up a parallel org in Germany. The internet archive, ICANN, PCH and IETF are far more exposed to U.S. risk than WMF.
- immibis 2y ago
  Germany has similar problems but at least they are confined to the topic of Israel. If Wikipedia's hosted in Germany right now, it's committing a crime there.
mcintyre1994 2y ago
Wikipedia is already a target. The Heritage Foundation (who wrote Project 2025) is planning to identify and doxx editors. Reported by Forward who obtained the documents: https://forward.com/news/686797/heritage-foundation-wikipedia-antisemitism/ https://forward.com/news/686797/heritage-foundation-wikipedi...
- OgsyedIE 2y ago
  Strictly speaking that is probably not as important a risk as the direct political risk of the Wikipedia 501c being involuntarily dissolved by AG Pam Bondi.

close04 2y ago

I'm sure they'll find a way to make a profit working with the system rather than against it.

kolektiv 2y ago
Quite - so far the tech community (at the top level), with a few exceptions, has shown itself quite willing to bend itself to whatever is required as long as it can carry on making money. The cowardice involved is apparent, do not look to corporations as your potential protectors. They've never turned out to be before, they're not going to be this time either. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_...
- OgsyedIE 2y ago
  What makes you think that Zuck, Ellison, Pichai etc are "obeying in advance" and haven't already received implied verbal threats of imprisonment?
  - close04 2y ago
    Meta or Alphabet did whatever they needed to extract profits from their users. What makes you think that all of a sudden they would pivot from chasing profits to defending those users, as opposed to playing ball with whoever they need to in order to make even more profits? What matters at the end of the day is that despite all the big talk of "freedom of speech" and "doing what's right", companies like Meta or YC almost always bend the knee (and the spine) and play ball to make money even if it contradicts everything they purportedly stood for. Just replace the motto.
    - nonrandomstring 2y ago
      > What makes you think that all of a sudden they would pivot from chasing profits to defending those users, You're putting YC into the same box as Meta? I'm probably very naive, but I think it's necessary to defend your users if your business model depends on them. What is YC's business model? It's "innovation". HN is a forum cultivated to encourage free exchange of disruptive ideas. That is not possible under conditions of technofascism. I expect the creators of this forum understand that, are worried, but have maybe convinced themselves it's safe to play along at ideology for now. If I thought there were not a significant cohort of humanist/anti-fascist technologists here I would not stay or contribute and I expect I speak for many others.

itsibitzi 2y ago

The elite Silicon Valley venture capitalist class has made it pretty clear which side they're on.

nonrandomstring 2y ago
They pick their sides for profitable expedience. I expect they would betray those sides just as fast for profitable expedience. US, EU, it's all one big world, and business never prospers in the long-run under the heel of a boot.
chillingeffect 2y ago
Is it a monoculture? obviously theres Thiel and his clan. But are there other powerful elements?

mentalgear 2y ago

It's time to look for an European HN alternative.

nonrandomstring 2y ago
FTR that's not what I'm suggesting. Good communities are worth protecting and preserving. But that means looking out for threats to a community and defending the members. Clearly moderators (of all US-based forums) are facing a hard time. And FWIW it's even worse in UK where forum hosts are simply shutting down rather than face draconian threat tactics of deliberate ambiguity (by OFCOM).
OgsyedIE 2y ago
I agree but I think most people will reject the idea without considering it if it isn't formatted as a 1500-word article hosted on substack.

mexicocitinluez 2y ago

> Do they have plans to relocate to friendlier climes? Bro, do you even know who Paul Graham is? He'll do anything to satisfy those turds and then write a blog post about how being kind to others is destroying the world.

codingbot3000 2y ago
You might remember he was one of those recommending to vote for Harris. And some of the reasons he gave can be found also in the article btw.
- mexicocitinluez 2y ago
  Recommending Harris and sucking up to whoever wins are not mutually exclusive ideas in the realm of people with too much money. Also, and this is a big also, he defended Elon buying Twitter for free speech. So I'd say his grasp of what should actually constitute free speech (the topic in this article) is a bit muddled at the moment
nonrandomstring 2y ago
Paul Graham wrote some very fine LISP books IIRC, and that's absolutely all I know about him. We may have had some cordial exchanges here on HN. To the extent Mr Graham is influential on this forum I'm sure he understands the peril facing any nexus of open speech in the current technofascist climate.

samiv 2y ago

I don't know if it's a co-incidence but this topic disappeared from the front page faster than you can say "front page"...

debo_ 2y ago

It's ok, dang will fix it

SauciestGNU 2y ago
dang for president!